Tsunami widget...FOR KONFABULATOR!
We're losers! Loooosseerrrs!
Sunday, January 23, 2005 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Let's get this question out of the way now:
Is Konfabulator better than DesktopX for the creation and usage of widgets?
I don't think it is. I *like* Konfabulator but it's not nearly as easy to create widgets for and the final widgets are .widget files and not EXEs like they are in DesktopX. Its default widgets ARE more polished than the typical DesktopX widget for sure.
But we're getting our butts kicked by Konfabulator. At least in terms of market share now. I'm not sure where we're going wrong. But we're going wrong somewhere. It's not in features that's for sure. If anything, we have too many features. And DesktopX costs less, doesn't time out and doesn't have a nag screen.
And it's in a positive cycle now. Robert X. Cringely wrote a terrific article about emergency systems using Konfabulator as part of his solution. Some students read it, write the app and contact their local newspaper. Newpaper runs it and pretty soon it's picked up everywhere: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20631
Somewhere, something has gone wrong. I've been reading the riot act to our PR agency for months. I think perhaps it's time get a new PR firm since they haven't managed to get any stories going.
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Reply #42 Wednesday, January 26, 2005 2:29 AM
Let me say this slowly:
DesktopX Pro can export its content as stand-alone-programs. (not we're talking DesktopX PRO, not the $20 DesktopX here). And on a project like the tsunami project, we'd happily give away the DX Pro license to a good cause).
Whereas with Konfabulator, the users first have to download the 8 meg (not 17 meg - my bad) Konfabulator program, install that. Then install the Tsunami app.
It's not about content, it's about practicality. One solution involves the recipients downloading a free 500K program. The other involves people downloading a 8 meg program and paying money for each license.
Sranshaft - the released versions of DesktopX are very solid. No one forces you to download beta versions and alpha versions. The officially released version of DesktopX is 2.4 and it's definitely not buggy.
Reply #43 Wednesday, January 26, 2005 2:31 AM
BTW,
I also agree with Makintosh - the Konfabulator widget development community seems to be better at putting out useful, pleasant looking stuff than the DesktopX community.
Since DesktopX's development support is much more mature (i.e. you're not making widgets by opening up a text editor and typing in XML) then one has to wonder why Konfabulator widget content seems to be better.
On the other hand, Konfabulator has no equivalent to DesktopX's exported desktops (.dxthemes) or its animation.
Reply #44 Wednesday, January 26, 2005 3:04 AM
I don't agree with those who think changing the name of DesktopX to something else is a good idea.
I think at a basic level Stardock needs to do a better job marketing it. Partiuclarly to developers.
Reply #45 Wednesday, January 26, 2005 3:33 AM
As for DX bugs, they are still there. I tried DX 2.4 (stable) and some widgets I downloaded did not work (the ones from Tiggz), so the release is not stable. Things have improved with the latest beta, but still, when you have one SD certified widget like the Currency converter from martin still not working, you wonder what means "SD certified" ??
But it has improved a lot, trying DX at the beginning of 2004 was a pain, it is not the case any more.
Reply #46 Wednesday, January 26, 2005 4:56 AM
Another thing I have been warning for months now : Weather widgets, calendars, weather widgets... Is DX possibly good for anything else ? (I know, it is, but I have been speaking to people that weren't aware of it at all). We have some nice widgets now (Although I would want Paul to make more and extend his Alien stuff), but some people really gave up when we had that weather object flood.
Reply #47 Wednesday, January 26, 2005 4:59 AM
different. Help files were are they? i checked the konfabulator website
and saw the workshop-page. 151 pages helpfiles in PDF.
Most people want to be productive from the start, you need proper and good
helpfiles for that. you do not want to spend your time searchin websites for answers.
I would say contract a very good helpfile writer and the popularity of all the programs
here would (i think) problaby double.
Cheers Eddie
Reply #48 Wednesday, January 26, 2005 5:57 AM
Reply #49 Wednesday, January 26, 2005 9:11 AM
c242 hit on another fantastic point: Screenshots. I know that Brad has released some monthly widget desktops and has announced them not only here, but at other sites. But to be quite honest they look very random. I understand the concept of grouping a bunch of widgets so folks can use them, great. But for PR purposes it would be very beneficial to have high quality screenshots that have a series of unified looking widgets. There are a lot of people who react amazingly positive to screenshots of Desktop X when they have a nice, unified feel to the widgets. Carefully planning out the screenshots could make a huge difference. Especially with some audiences. Taking into consideration the whims of different groups should be integral to what kind of screenshot to show them.
Reply #50 Wednesday, January 26, 2005 12:31 PM
As for ease of creating widgets...I've found it much easier to use CSS/HTML, Javascript, XML. It's natural to go from coding webpages to coding widgets and this, I think, is the main draw for some with Konfabulator and even more so when Dashboard hits the masses.
Also like BlueDev said, C424 hit on one of the key points and that is the screenshots of the product. When talking about marketing everything comes down to the way one presents the product. If you want to attract a certain group, you show off those aspects of the product that appeal to that group. Konfabulator does this quite well with the graphic artist in mind. Being as it's 'home' if you will is Apple, it has that look and feel that hits a cord with the graphic artist. Just a look at the first page of widgets and you see what I mean. This doesn't mean there aren't some great graphic artists here (tiggz, you know we can't compete
) but it seems this is angle K is coming from. As a side note: i have 2.40 no alphas or betas or gammas for that matter. There are still bugs in any program no matter how 'stable' one thinks it to be. One bug that I've come across is resizing of ActiveX controls and before you say 'hold ctrl and click' I've already done this. In fact I've gone so far as to hard-code the width and height with the same effect, meaning none. All I get is a box with the original control and a black field filling the rest. Didn't happen in 2.3 but is there now...another is wallpaper changing. Some reason it doesn't accept saved wallpapers, which I have to go into the display properties dialog now to change and the only wallpapers is will accept is bmp. jpegs come back with a grey screen with a 1 pixel strip at the bottom of the wallpaper. Setting the wallpaper in DesktopX config has no effect as it once did.
Stable sure...not without bugs? no.
Reply #51 Wednesday, January 26, 2005 5:42 PM
Reply #52 Wednesday, January 26, 2005 8:29 PM
Reply #53 Thursday, January 27, 2005 3:08 AM
What is bugging me and what in my opinion let's people choose for something
different. Help files were are they? i checked the konfabulator website
and saw the workshop-page. 151 pages helpfiles in PDF.
Most people want to be productive from the start, you need proper and good
helpfiles for that. you do not want to spend your time searchin websites for answers.
I would say contract a very good helpfile writer and the popularity of all the programs
here would (i think) problaby double.
Just go to DX's home page, press the documentation link on the left and yep, it's in PDF format and HTML. Hundreds of pages incuding examples. How hard exactly did you look? Heck, in DesktopX itself there's a link in the context menu item that will take you to the documenation.
I've made widgets for Konfabulator and widgets for DesktopX. There's no comparison. DesktopX is much easier to make widgets for. I can't imagine anyone disagreeing with that.
As for widgets not working, I'm not sure what to say. I had base DesktopX 2.4 and ran through a bunch of widgets during the media tour this week. No problems here. That isn't to say some of the alpha releases since then have been problem free.
Perhaps we need to stop releasing alphas of DesktopX onto ODNT. I.e. from here on out, they will be more internally tested before being made public.
If someone has a widget - a specific one - that doesn't work, let us know.
Reply #54 Thursday, January 27, 2005 3:11 AM
BlueDev: Marketing is like engineering. Perfect is the enemy of good. PearlThane wasn't available for screenshots when the media materials were put together.
It is easy to point out ommissions in any marketing program but the comparison isn't between Stardock and some perfect company but rather Stardock and real world companies and in the real world, things aren't optimal.
Reply #55 Thursday, January 27, 2005 3:31 AM
As for DX beta or not, with the 2.4 (stable), some widgets did not work (for example Tiggz said, he stopped working on widgets then since its widgets no longer works), so the "go to the last stable" is not always the solution)
The latest alpha builds made them to work by the way (so please Tiggz, go on
).But there are still some widgets not working (like I said above, the just released "currency converter", for example).
Reply #56 Thursday, January 27, 2005 4:22 AM
- Some of our widgets like Weather or Calendar were not so perfect. We updated some content for 2.4 and we'll make sure we have great boundled widgets in 2.5.
- We are rewriting several documentation. Especially the Scripting manual, if you check the latest 2.40f[a].002 build, it has been updated a lot and there is several new information.
- Most of all, I know we did an huge improvement in the engine in the internal builds. 2.5 (and the new alphas and betas when they are ironed) will be a much more stable and featured development platform.
- There were some problems in January builds, however those were labeled Alpha I think. Pleas check yesterday's 2.40f[a].002, I think it should fix most problems.
- Check the new tutorials for some ideas and best practices: https://www.stardock.com/products/desktopx/docs/tutorials/index.html
We will add more soon.
- I tested several widgets with the new build. Currency converter and other ones seem to play well.
- Konfabulator partially benefit of being newer. It has less of backward compatibility maintenance overhead. Plus, things like ActiveX support adds incredible complexity. However, as things get ironed in 2.5 too, it should get back a strong point of DX.
Reply #57 Thursday, January 27, 2005 4:44 AM
| Just go to DX's home page, press the documentation link on the left and yep, it's in PDF format and HTML. Hundreds of pages incuding examples. How hard exactly did you look? Heck, in DesktopX itself there's a link in the context menu item that will take you to the documenation |
That proofs my point i guess, i'm not working with DX yet but i tought it probably was the same as the others.
But trying to find what you now told me i think proofs my point.all other programs from stardock i'm working
with now have a plain and simple Help button DX hasn't, i think i understand what you are talking about.
if i click the DX icon on the bottom i can find the helpfiles and documentation. when i first start with a
program i would like to see the help and documentation straight away, i'm new to it i need help.
I did not expect documentation, so i did not look for it, i would probably not have done that even if
there was a helpbutton. think about it, doesn't that say something! Every program i got from stardock
has it's own different way of help and documentation that makes it very hard to work with.
Example: Iconpackager: Help > Help on the internet > gives me the product page from there i can go to newsgroups.
Icon developer: Help > help on the internet > online tutorials > gives me a page why i should use windowblinds.
The thing with the helpfiles is not my problem it's yours, for me it is the reason why some of the programs
aren't in use yet, i struggle trough each program one step at a time. Helpfiles and documentation i think
should be on my PC not scattered over the internet and if it has to be on the internet than on one easy to find
place.
I do not see DX or WB etc i see Stardock. So if the help is poor in some programs it probably is for the others.
Would i buy that $499,- program? no i won't, my mind is already set from past experience.
Cheers Eddie
Reply #58 Thursday, January 27, 2005 8:05 AM
| PearlThane wasn't available for screenshots when the media materials were put together. |
And I understand that completely. It was simply a convenient example that had popped up recently.
But what I don't understand is preparing the media materials before you have an example for one of the biggest selling points on the new version. But this is straying from the original point: DX screenshots. Until you can announce new versions with very nice, very tight and unified looking screenshots no one is going to take you seriously. There are lots of cool widgets, and lots silly looking ones. How many folks at the popular customization sites really are going to think it is cool to have a lava lamp or fish on their screen? No matter how good those look (because they do look good) things like that are not going to attract many new users at popular custo sites. They look at that and think it just looks silly.
Reply #59 Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:35 AM
If I try it as a widget, It freeze while updating.
I I import it in a theme, it says "script error in curr_web" (the one from Martin kills Desktop X when imported !!)
| Objet requis: 'DesktopX.Object(...)' Line: 173 Code: (not available) |
Already, the difference between imporing and standalone is perplexing.
Reply #60 Thursday, January 27, 2005 11:20 AM
| If I try it as a widget, It freeze while updating. |
Is there anything that could be blocking its access to the net? I know, an obvious question, but I've accidently blocked my widgets from net access a few times
The script error doesn't affect the object's functionality, dismiss it and it should work fine.
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Reply #41 Tuesday, January 25, 2005 9:12 PM