Skin Comments
Thursday, October 28, 2004 by digital_trucker | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I'm starting to see a disturbing trend in some skin comments. People are being attacked for offering constructive criticism. ATTENTION! That's the WHOLE POINT of skin comments! It's far better to have constructive comments on areas of improvements than the continual 'U r0X0rz' comments. FYI, people A person doesn't have to be a skinner themselves to offer good analyses of skins. I can't manufacture an automobile, but I know what I like to see in one. Skin bashing is unacceptable, of course...but that's not what I'm referring to here. There are very few 'perfect' skins around. Even many of the ones with a 10 rating aren't quite perfect (ask their authors if you don't believe me). It quite often happens that an author will release a skin and not even know that something isn't quite 'right'. Of course, a lot of that has to do with personal preference. For example I've been using TopaX for quite a while now. I like the colors. I modded it for my own use though, since I didn't care for the italicized taskbar fonts. How can we expect to hone our skills if we don't get useful feedback on areas where we need to put more effort in? Attacking a skin user for providing a reasonable POLITE commentary about what they like or don't like about a skin is patently absurd. Lighten up, people. This is a hobby for the vast majority of us, and it's SUPPOSED TO BE FUN.
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #2 Thursday, October 28, 2004 10:48 PM
Reply #2 Thursday, October 28, 2004 10:48 PM
I agree...critiques from users can be just as valid as ones from skinners...skinners are just better at offering fix advice.
I've seen a lot of pouncing on users for offering apparently valid observations just because they dont skin.
I've seen a lot of pouncing on users for offering apparently valid observations just because they dont skin.
SelfExiled
Reply #3 Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:24 PM
Reply #3 Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:24 PM
I for one have seen a lot of skin bashing. Cursing and whatnot for no good reason. So, for that reason, I was a little sensitive to such negative criticism. I recently made a comment about a skin being overly criticized based on my skinning experience. But, I didn't open the skin to see what it looked like. When, I did, I realized that the previous skin comment was accurate and appropriate. Since the skin in question was a port, maybe the author didn't take the time to see what the port looked like before he/she uploaded it. Or, maybe the author didn't know how to correct the problem. So, if this thread is in regards to my comment, thanks for posting it here and jumping down my throat. But, I will continue to defend the efforts of fellow skinners when I feel that they have been unjustly criticized.
So, when I saw the comment about scroll bar arrows, I remember that those arrows are not normally anti-aliased or vector based because they are so small and the angle doesn't normally require it. But, I didn't open the skin to see that they are not the normal size and that they are really skewed.
All I said, was that before someone is overly criticizes of a skin, they should see how time consuming it is to create a skin from scratch. I'm not talking about the skin that was thrown together to show how fast they could do it, I'm talking about skins, such as the ones Treetog makes, where he obviously puts his heart into the skin, and it takes 60 to 100 hours of "free work" to create. I don't yet have Treetog experience, and my next one looks like it is going to take at least 200 hours of "free work". I have to learn Bryce in order to do it right. So, it is going to take a lot of time.
Yes, it is done because it is fun and a challenge, at least for me. But, after you spend all this time, and put your heart into it, and you have someone jump down your throat or is unjustly and unfairly critical, it hurts. So, I felt the need to make the comment.
I didn't even realize that the skin was a port. I thought the author created it himself. But, again, my comment was well intentioned although it was wrong. If someone cares to remove my small comment, feel free to do so without any bad feelings on my part, because my small comment was wrong. Here is a link to my small comment. Actually, I would appreciate if it were removed because it was inaccurate in this case.
https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=1&SkinID=4600
So, when I saw the comment about scroll bar arrows, I remember that those arrows are not normally anti-aliased or vector based because they are so small and the angle doesn't normally require it. But, I didn't open the skin to see that they are not the normal size and that they are really skewed.
All I said, was that before someone is overly criticizes of a skin, they should see how time consuming it is to create a skin from scratch. I'm not talking about the skin that was thrown together to show how fast they could do it, I'm talking about skins, such as the ones Treetog makes, where he obviously puts his heart into the skin, and it takes 60 to 100 hours of "free work" to create. I don't yet have Treetog experience, and my next one looks like it is going to take at least 200 hours of "free work". I have to learn Bryce in order to do it right. So, it is going to take a lot of time.
Yes, it is done because it is fun and a challenge, at least for me. But, after you spend all this time, and put your heart into it, and you have someone jump down your throat or is unjustly and unfairly critical, it hurts. So, I felt the need to make the comment.
I didn't even realize that the skin was a port. I thought the author created it himself. But, again, my comment was well intentioned although it was wrong. If someone cares to remove my small comment, feel free to do so without any bad feelings on my part, because my small comment was wrong. Here is a link to my small comment. Actually, I would appreciate if it were removed because it was inaccurate in this case.
https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=1&SkinID=4600
NightTrainthedark
Reply #4 Friday, October 29, 2004 7:11 AM
Reply #4 Friday, October 29, 2004 7:11 AM
If you can't handle a critique ,whether it's good or bad , you shouldn't be posting work.
digital_trucker
Reply #5 Friday, October 29, 2004 8:10 AM
Reply #5 Friday, October 29, 2004 8:10 AM
Chas, it wasn't aimed at you, nor was it in defense of anyone in particular. I simply felt (based on several observations here and there) that it was time to post something of this nature once again. It gets to be necessary about every year or so, I've noticed. The number of new users and skinners that join our happy little dysfunctional community every year is staggering. I wasn't referring to harsh and unjustly critical comments, either. THOSE are absolutely uncalled-for. In such a community as this, it helps to mention such things once in a while. Hubris is a trap we all fall into one time or another.
XX
Reply #6 Friday, October 29, 2004 9:21 AM
Reply #6 Friday, October 29, 2004 9:21 AM
Perfect example of bad feedback: https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=25&SkinID=742 .
Otherwise I either listen to them or not.
Otherwise I either listen to them or not.
Keila
Reply #7 Friday, October 29, 2004 9:29 AM
Keila does not think that there enough constructive criticism on skins these days.
I feel it is mostly because of the reason stated. If you make a comment like that you take the chance on getting battered over it.
Reply #7 Friday, October 29, 2004 9:29 AM
| The number of new users and skinners that join our happy little dysfunctional community every year is staggering. |
Keila does not think that there enough constructive criticism on skins these days.
I feel it is mostly because of the reason stated. If you make a comment like that you take the chance on getting battered over it.
Keila
Reply #8 Friday, October 29, 2004 9:30 AM
Reply #8 Friday, October 29, 2004 9:30 AM
XX, glad you noticed that comment. That top one should be removed. 
MikeB314
Reply #12 Friday, October 29, 2004 10:00 AM
Reply #12 Friday, October 29, 2004 10:00 AM
My first few WB skins sucked. Some people said "good job", which was nice, but not helpful. Some poeple said "I see potential", which was encouraging, but also not terribly helpful. Some people listed exactly what they thought was wrong with my work. Those comments were invaluable. If it weren't for the truly constructive critism left by a few people, my skins might still suck. Those people weren't all skinners, mind you. Some of them were graphic artists in other areas, and some of them were just insightful users, but I can't thank them enough.
When someone takes the time to thoroughly review your work and tell you exactly what could be done to improve it, it would be wise to at least take those comments into consideration. You might find that some of it is a matter of personal taste, and you might find that you can actually learn from it.
"Great job" is nice, and "This sucks" is not, but "here's how you could make it better" is exactly what you should be looking for, particularly if you are relatively new to skinning.
So check your egos at the door and open your mind to the possibility that your aren't an instant pro. I've been submitting skins here for over 3 years and skinning professionally for more than 2 of them, and I still pick up a tip or two from folks who are willing to offer useful comments.
XX
Reply #13 Friday, October 29, 2004 2:06 PM
Reply #13 Friday, October 29, 2004 2:06 PM
Thanks! 
I tried to send an email but apparently it didn't work.
( webmaster AT wincustomize DOT org )
Yeah, I LOVE detailed feedback, but that's as rare as dropping a coin and it landing on it's edge. Well, not THAT rare but you get the idea.
I tried to send an email but apparently it didn't work.( webmaster AT wincustomize DOT org )
Yeah, I LOVE detailed feedback, but that's as rare as dropping a coin and it landing on it's edge. Well, not THAT rare but you get the idea.
Koasati
Reply #14 Friday, October 29, 2004 2:11 PM
Reply #14 Friday, October 29, 2004 2:11 PM
wincustomize.org???? If you need to send an email to one of us, use the About link on the left side of the page for our email addresses. But this is Wincustomize.com. 
White_Moth
Reply #16 Friday, October 29, 2004 6:27 PM
Reply #16 Friday, October 29, 2004 6:27 PM
Well said MikeB314, great job.
Seriously though, he is absolutely right. Park the egos and get with it.
Seriously though, he is absolutely right. Park the egos and get with it.
Essencay
Reply #17 Friday, October 29, 2004 7:04 PM
Reply #17 Friday, October 29, 2004 7:04 PM
The only issue I have is when someone rates a skin and doesn't bother to leave any comment
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Reply #1 Thursday, October 28, 2004 10:22 PM
[Message Edited]