new "star" ratings

Thursday, September 30, 2004 by Tiggz | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk

I was rating a skin via my new homepage, which if I had gone thru the normal channels I would have given a 9 to. However, as there are only 5 stars in all, and it wasn't quite a perfect 10, I decided to click on the 4 star rating. Later on I was checking out the same skin, but this time via the normal WC library and I saw that I had apparently rated it a 7, which was certainly not indicative of my opinion.

So I decided to go thru all the stars and see what each one translated as:
5 stars=10
4 stars=7
3 stars=5
2 stars=3
1 star=1

it seems, if I use the star sytem to rate, I can either rate something that's pretty-darn-good-but-not-quite-perfect a 10... or a 7.

personally I'd like to keep the marks out of 10 system as it gives a broader choice, but failing that...well, I'm not sure, but the tarif as detailed above seems flawed to me.
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Jafo
Reply #21 Friday, October 1, 2004 9:22 AM

EH.....as an experienced skinner you will admire treetog's craft......

EH....the 'you' was the rhetorical one, not the specific one....

EventHorizon
Reply #22 Friday, October 1, 2004 9:31 AM
How about two separate rating systems?


Too complex, me thinks...And I think they're trying to shift 'weight' away from the ratings system, as it carries too much of it currently...

EH....the 'you' was the rhetorical one, not the specific one....


Ahh, makes sense now...
paxx
Reply #23 Friday, October 1, 2004 10:04 AM

Well, there are no official skinning guidelines. Nothing defines what one rating means. So everything goes, really.

Veterans will remember me for my big rants against the rating system specifically because it means nothing.  Because there is no guides, because there is no rating grid, the rating values are therefore 100% personnal and therefore anybody can define his own rule on what a 1 is or what a 10 is.  Mr X gives it a 2 because he hates the color, and Mr Y gives it a 10 cause it has animations and Mr Y Looooves animations!

Having said that, I tend to rate according to my own personnal tastes, because there was no other way put forth.  If I hate a skin, no matter how technically brilliant it is, I am incapable of giving it a high rating.

A while back, I suggested a rating grid. It is a bit more of a fair way to rate, IMO.

Jafo
Reply #24 Friday, October 1, 2004 10:14 AM

If I hate a skin, no matter how technically brilliant it is, I am incapable of giving it a high rating.

But you'd give it a 'less low' rating....

eieio
Reply #25 Friday, October 1, 2004 11:42 AM
How about an option for "Don't show ratings". Each author would have the option for his skins to show ratings or not.
Black Xero
Reply #26 Friday, October 1, 2004 11:43 AM
On Winamp.com, they have a 5-star rating system, but they have half-stars too. Maybe if WC had half stars it would even out a bit more


It has already been. Just move mouse over a star anf watch carefully
EventHorizon
Reply #27 Friday, October 1, 2004 12:19 PM
Veterans will remember me for my big rants against the rating system specifically because it means nothing.


The ratings are not 'meaningless.' If I remember correctly, only skins with a rating of 7 or higher can be viewed by the anonymous (non-registered) public, who account for roughly 2/3 of downloads. To make a skin 'invisible' to them by giving it a low rating has very tangible results. (as far as download count is concerned)
[Message Edited]
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #28 Friday, October 1, 2004 12:32 PM
I dont like the idea of a star rating system at all....too wishy washy...I prefer the fine distinctions between a skin that deserves an 8 over one that would be a 7.
paxx
Reply #29 Friday, October 1, 2004 1:18 PM

Hehehe EH: ratings have a purpose, but not necessarely a meaning.   What does it mean to have a 4?  That the colors are bad? That it's technically bad? That the design is ugly? That the skin is too slow? All of the above?
For each rater, there is a different meaning. If a skin gets 5 ratings, chances are the 5 ratings were given according to 5 different criterias, making the overall rating meaningless.

Since there is no predefined definition or guide for ratings, one has to assume that, by default, ratings mean: How do you like this skin?  And therefore has nothing to do with technically good or bad the skin is, unless in some people's own tastes "technically well done" means that they like it.

gef
Reply #30 Friday, October 1, 2004 4:37 PM
I think paxx has got it dead right. I 100% agree.
WOM
Reply #31 Friday, October 1, 2004 5:55 PM
I don't think I've rated a blind less than a 6. I'am sure Jafo will check. Walls yes and other things also. If the blind didn't work I might have given a bad rating but I don't remember downloading one . Who knows, been here a long time so I could be wrong.



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GhoS
Reply #32 Friday, October 1, 2004 6:37 PM
I think the ratings have their purpose and shouldn't be even allowed to be turned off. Personally what I feel is needed is two categories of ratings. One for general users (though still limited as it is currently to subscribers) and another either for skinners or only for moderators. So that way you can see what the general public likes and what those who know more about the craft of skinning prefer.
I don't choose a skin based on ratings anyway, I base it on my own personal tastes. However I do feel they are important for the skinners to know if their work is well-received or not.



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WOM
Reply #33 Friday, October 1, 2004 6:53 PM
Everytime this subject comes up I feel the need to respond.

WOM isn't a skinner.

But I do know what goes into skinning and how long it takes and I don't think or feel that I should not beable to rate. If you do a whole suite it can take 2-3 months unless you are clonning some of your things and recoloring. Then it will be faster.

If there is a rating system then all WCers should rate.



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Jafo
Reply #34 Friday, October 1, 2004 7:53 PM

If a skin gets 5 ratings, chances are the 5 ratings were given according to 5 different criterias, making the overall rating meaningless.

No, there's clear meaning there....it means that by whatever criteria of subjective or emotive opinion incited/inspired the disparate 5 to post a rating the resulting mean is a reflection of the skin's acceptance.

Sure, if 2 rated on technique...and 3 rated on appearance then the averaged result would make no sense if you expected it to reflect only one criteria, eg. technique.

However.

It's an averaging process...an amalgam of opinions, and it gives a perfectly justifiable/defensible indication of a skin's acceptance ....by those 5 people.

It's painfully obvious, however that the next 10,000 viewers/raters may not agree....but that is the blatantly clear failing of a limited rater-application [number of rates applied] and any 'criteria' of rating classification......1 for originality, 1 for looks, 1 for technique, etc will fail exactly equally as well through lack of numbers of ratings to establish a real-world mean reflection.

If Joe Public sees a rating of say '6' his interpretation of that will be [should be] that it has been considered by others before him to be about average or better....purely in general terms, not for example for the pedantic-accuracy-wanters that the start button was rated at 6.  If you were to split criteria then each individual part would be subject to variations of opinion focus/reasoning which would make them all equally 'meaningless' if that were really the case with an overall single rating as it is at the moment.

The only clear, accurate rating method is for it to be purely un- adulterated....eg the 'opinion' of one person only....where hopefully that person isn't subject to mood-swings or prejudice....an unlikely animal, but a newspaper film critic would be a case in point....one opinionated opinion.

10 opinionated opinions would give a better inkling of what the film was like.

Perhaps ratings should be applied transparently.....no-one sees what they are at all [though their application handles band-width screening still].  Instead the skin could display......'rated 6 times'.....just to prompt others to add theirs.

Maybe something could be hard-coded to prevent a rating be applied unless the dl link is clicked first.....might reduce drive-by idiots.

Again, the 'star system' is a ratings-obsession-softener.....to bypass this obsession with numerology....

 

Apocalypse_67
Reply #35 Friday, October 1, 2004 8:39 PM
Maybe something could be hard-coded to prevent a rating be applied unless the dl link is clicked first.....might reduce drive-by idiots.


This sounds like a really good idea.
BTW Jafo, is the new star rating implementing the system where a rating score given by a Journeyman, Master, Admin, etc 'weights' more than one given by a regular user?
Jafo
Reply #36 Friday, October 1, 2004 8:47 PM
A_67....yes.  It means that experience [as reflected by position] has a greater influence on a rating mean so it's essentially more closely a peer rating, however the novice user still has a viable input...
Koasati
Reply #37 Friday, October 1, 2004 9:08 PM
is the new star rating implementing the system where a rating score given by a Journeyman, Master, Admin, etc 'weights' more than one given by a regular user?

#7 by Wizop Koasati - 9/30/2004 11:48:38 PM
Maybe it has something to do with the weighted system now in place..........

Was I mumbling or not not typing loud enough?

goodmorphing
Reply #38 Friday, October 1, 2004 9:20 PM

I think that its often hard to get used to one system over another one.  Perhaps its unfortunate that the stars started shining while the numbers were still there for comparison.  In a bit, when it is all one system, and not both ways... when everything is that way.. then it will probably seem more natural. Some old codgers like me take a little longer to change our frames of reference.

I always had my view preferences set to show everything because early on I found great skins rated low.  (either that or my taste is kind of radical)  It would be great if these stars would stop the trolling for good rates, and the vengeful rates too....

Earlier I said that I was surprised to see that I had given a 3 ... I should clarify that to say I was surprised that I had rated at all.  My browser loads a page then when when all the images  have finally loaded it takes a little jump.  So a click in process is often misaimed... I have learned to be extra careful.  But I hadn't really thought of that with the stars... so when I found that I had mistakenly taken a good skin down quite far I was surprised.

paxx
Reply #39 Friday, October 1, 2004 9:22 PM

BTW, about this:

I was rating a skin via my new homepage

How did you do that? Did I miss something?  Where do you have access to the skins library from your new homepage?  All I see are my own skins. Or were you rating your own skins? 

goodmorphing
Reply #40 Friday, October 1, 2004 9:24 PM
You can see other people's skins by accessing their galleries through their home pages.  Or through your watch list.

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