>:(
Tuesday, June 22, 2004 by DesignCaddy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
not that we should report every one of these.. but, it wouldn't be fair just to note the new jersey guy and not some others.
S. Korean Hostage Executed by Iraqi Captors - Report (reuters)
DUBAI (Reuters) - South Korean hostage executed by Iraqi captors, Al Jazeera television says.
... bastards.
S. Korean Hostage Executed by Iraqi Captors - Report (reuters)
DUBAI (Reuters) - South Korean hostage executed by Iraqi captors, Al Jazeera television says.
... bastards.
 |
|
Page 2 of 4 | |
|
|---|
TheStranger22
Reply #22 Wednesday, June 23, 2004 9:30 AM
Reply #22 Wednesday, June 23, 2004 9:30 AM
I don't think it is religion at all. It is power.
They use the religion to control them. It has been used that way for centuries, take a religion and twist its ideals to control the populace. The more igrnorant the people the more willing they are to follow that wacked out religion.
They use the religion to control them. It has been used that way for centuries, take a religion and twist its ideals to control the populace. The more igrnorant the people the more willing they are to follow that wacked out religion.
Anthony R
Reply #23 Wednesday, June 23, 2004 1:01 PM
It is so sad that they kill innocent civilians the poor guy didn’t deserve to die like that. It is so sad, especially for the family. As sad and tragic as it is, I think that these killings are short term tragedies, in the long term, the whole world will benefit from a free Iraq without Saddam Hussein in power, or Zarqawi taking his place. Looking at the bigger picture, I don’t believe that roadside bombs, car bombs and beheadings can strip control from the coalition. As unfortunate as these incidents are, they are not going to make a difference in the handover of sovereignty and the training of Iraqi troops who will eventually be responsible for cleaning out their own country, our troops don’t want to stay there any longer than necessary, and no one wants to steal the oil, and even if they did, the Iraqis could only hope they get a fairer shake then they received from Saddam Hussein and Kofi Anons Oil for Palaces program. Eventually someone will finger Zarqawi, (a member of Al Qaeda), who has been in Baghdad long before the war. Of course, there was no relation or connection between Hussein and Al Qaeda.
Saddam paid “suiciders” (a word I learned from W) 10,000 dollars for each suicide bomber. He displayed his intention to support terror organizations openly, and he celebrated Sept 11th openly. Now he is gone. If US and coalition troops weren’t on the ground, Zarqawi and Al-Sadr would have strong armed their way into power, and then the whole thing would be just as bad or even worse than it was under Hussein. Zarqawi shocked us all with gruesome beheadings and vicious car bombings and the ghoulish murder of contractors in Fallujah, imagine him in charge of Iraq. Hopefully Zarqawi will end up where he belongs, under the wings of American justice which will promptly drop 500 pound bombs on his head, courtesy of a revolted nation.
What choice was there but to send troops to Iraq? Saddam Hussein had to go. Ground force has to remain it is the only thing preventing Zarqawi and other thugs from taking control of Iraq, Most Iraqis realize that if America is not successful, they will end up under Zarqawis thumb, that is why they are lining up to become soldiers and cops even though they are being attacked by car bombings. The whole thing has cost a lot but it’s not in vein. And it doesn’t matter if the Iraqis are grateful or not, this is for us as much as them.
In reality, what Americans did to liberate Europe was for us, just as it was for them. The D-Day invasion inevitably saved the US from subjugation. The ingratitude of the French or Germans is of no real consequence, they are free, and they are no threat to us. The same outcome for the Middle East would be just fine. If they are ungrateful, so be it, just so long as a free democracy emerges that is stable and no longer a threat.
As far as al jezzera is concerned, if a German version of al jezeera was operating in Germany during WWII it wouldn’t have lasted long! A German Al Jezeera would have been carpet bombed everywhere and anywhere it attempted to transmit, because it is not a news agency, it is a tool of propaganda. The propaganda campaign of Al Jezeera has harmed US-Arab relations with lies and distortions.
Reply #23 Wednesday, June 23, 2004 1:01 PM
It is so sad that they kill innocent civilians the poor guy didn’t deserve to die like that. It is so sad, especially for the family. As sad and tragic as it is, I think that these killings are short term tragedies, in the long term, the whole world will benefit from a free Iraq without Saddam Hussein in power, or Zarqawi taking his place. Looking at the bigger picture, I don’t believe that roadside bombs, car bombs and beheadings can strip control from the coalition. As unfortunate as these incidents are, they are not going to make a difference in the handover of sovereignty and the training of Iraqi troops who will eventually be responsible for cleaning out their own country, our troops don’t want to stay there any longer than necessary, and no one wants to steal the oil, and even if they did, the Iraqis could only hope they get a fairer shake then they received from Saddam Hussein and Kofi Anons Oil for Palaces program. Eventually someone will finger Zarqawi, (a member of Al Qaeda), who has been in Baghdad long before the war. Of course, there was no relation or connection between Hussein and Al Qaeda.
Saddam paid “suiciders” (a word I learned from W) 10,000 dollars for each suicide bomber. He displayed his intention to support terror organizations openly, and he celebrated Sept 11th openly. Now he is gone. If US and coalition troops weren’t on the ground, Zarqawi and Al-Sadr would have strong armed their way into power, and then the whole thing would be just as bad or even worse than it was under Hussein. Zarqawi shocked us all with gruesome beheadings and vicious car bombings and the ghoulish murder of contractors in Fallujah, imagine him in charge of Iraq. Hopefully Zarqawi will end up where he belongs, under the wings of American justice which will promptly drop 500 pound bombs on his head, courtesy of a revolted nation.
What choice was there but to send troops to Iraq? Saddam Hussein had to go. Ground force has to remain it is the only thing preventing Zarqawi and other thugs from taking control of Iraq, Most Iraqis realize that if America is not successful, they will end up under Zarqawis thumb, that is why they are lining up to become soldiers and cops even though they are being attacked by car bombings. The whole thing has cost a lot but it’s not in vein. And it doesn’t matter if the Iraqis are grateful or not, this is for us as much as them.
In reality, what Americans did to liberate Europe was for us, just as it was for them. The D-Day invasion inevitably saved the US from subjugation. The ingratitude of the French or Germans is of no real consequence, they are free, and they are no threat to us. The same outcome for the Middle East would be just fine. If they are ungrateful, so be it, just so long as a free democracy emerges that is stable and no longer a threat.
As far as al jezzera is concerned, if a German version of al jezeera was operating in Germany during WWII it wouldn’t have lasted long! A German Al Jezeera would have been carpet bombed everywhere and anywhere it attempted to transmit, because it is not a news agency, it is a tool of propaganda. The propaganda campaign of Al Jezeera has harmed US-Arab relations with lies and distortions.
TheStranger22
Reply #25 Thursday, June 24, 2004 7:18 AM
Reply #25 Thursday, June 24, 2004 7:18 AM
Very will written Anthony R. By what I read, are you from europe? If you are, from what I have read on the web your view is not the popular one. It was a pleasure to read it though, and I agree with it. I wish more people thought things through like this, Europeans and Americans. Few people take the time to think things through.
ToeJo
Reply #26 Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:21 AM
Reply #26 Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:21 AM
I must agree with Anthony on his deductions regarding Iraq. I think it is important to add that as we sit in our little cubicles typing on our personal pc's, it is nearly impossible to get a grip on the bigger picture. We, as simple citizens, could not possibly have enough information at our disposal to make any grand decisions about what is "correct" for the world, or for that matter, the US.
Which brings me to my next point, look at our sources of information...Hype, total Hype. The true facts are impossible to discern from sources like ABC News, CNN, MSNBC, Fox, etc... That is because each of these sources are trying to sell you something. And after 15 years in broadcasting, I can assure you that whatever gets you to watch TV is going to be what is on TV. The simple facts do not matter. Money does. And the money is coming from advertisers. And how much a broadcast facility can charge is determined soley by the type of viewers and number of viewers that watch at any given time. Why do you think CNN will spend 7-8 minutes promoting a story that will air in "The next segment" only to do a 10 second reader that has no more information than the bumps and promo's did. Believe me, american networks are very good and the bait and hook scheme. As far as I know there simply isn't any reliable, accurate, unmotivated source of information in the world anymore.
Al-Jazeera is no different than any other facility. Other than thier motivation. Thier stories are just as tainted as the American stories.
If you want an accurate depiction of what is going on...then you are going to have to do your homework. Watch several sources. From several companies. BBC, ABC, FOX, Al-Jazeera...there are many others. Listen to what the "officials" are saying and don't fall for what the reporter is telling you. Pay attention, do your homework and understand the bigger picture and you will be surprised at what you find.
Which brings me to my next point, look at our sources of information...Hype, total Hype. The true facts are impossible to discern from sources like ABC News, CNN, MSNBC, Fox, etc... That is because each of these sources are trying to sell you something. And after 15 years in broadcasting, I can assure you that whatever gets you to watch TV is going to be what is on TV. The simple facts do not matter. Money does. And the money is coming from advertisers. And how much a broadcast facility can charge is determined soley by the type of viewers and number of viewers that watch at any given time. Why do you think CNN will spend 7-8 minutes promoting a story that will air in "The next segment" only to do a 10 second reader that has no more information than the bumps and promo's did. Believe me, american networks are very good and the bait and hook scheme. As far as I know there simply isn't any reliable, accurate, unmotivated source of information in the world anymore.
Al-Jazeera is no different than any other facility. Other than thier motivation. Thier stories are just as tainted as the American stories.
If you want an accurate depiction of what is going on...then you are going to have to do your homework. Watch several sources. From several companies. BBC, ABC, FOX, Al-Jazeera...there are many others. Listen to what the "officials" are saying and don't fall for what the reporter is telling you. Pay attention, do your homework and understand the bigger picture and you will be surprised at what you find.
cosmo-alpha
Reply #27 Thursday, June 24, 2004 4:40 PM
Religion has nothing to do with it. Fanaticism at its best. None of the Holy books condone murder, and all condemn it. "Religion" is just a title to these bastages. >
Reply #27 Thursday, June 24, 2004 4:40 PM
Religion has nothing to do with it. Fanaticism at its best. None of the Holy books condone murder, and all condemn it. "Religion" is just a title to these bastages. >
paxx
Reply #28 Friday, June 25, 2004 7:27 AM
Reply #28 Friday, June 25, 2004 7:27 AM
I strongly disagree.
The problems in Irak are just starting. As sad as it may sound, getting rid of Hussein opened a can of worms that will only be closed when he is replaced by another ruthless dictator. Democracy is impossible in that region. Too many different people want to take the power, and only a strong and ruthless leader can keep them quiet. It's awfull, but it's the sad truth. The US and the coalition will eventually get out of the country, and there will continue to be bombs and murders, until somebody else takes over the power for a short while, until he too is taken out by another armed group...
Going there was a mistake. And according to survey I read this morning, 54% of Americans think so too now.
And about the "ungratefull" French, obviously Anthony you know not too much about post-war France. France was very gratefull to the US after the war. Saying you were American in 1945, was close to saying you were God. If relations got sour between France and the US, it happened much later (it started in the 60's).
And finally, again, I disagree about Al Jazeera. They are no better than CNN, but certainly no worse. They didn't do anything that other American networks wouldn't have done if given the opportunity. Beyond that, Al Jazeera is a positive thing for the Arab world. One of the only private network, without any affiliation to any governement. If one thing can make the close-minded, religious fanatical Middle-East a little better, Al Jazeera can be a good start.
ToeJo
Reply #29 Friday, June 25, 2004 7:49 AM
Reply #29 Friday, June 25, 2004 7:49 AM
Paxx..you are correct about the "French" thing...but I have to disagree with you about your long term assesment of the middle east.
It is true...the problems are just begining. But to say that Democracy is "impossible" in that region is simply not true. If they give up hope, if they decide to not take control themselves, if the general public lies down and takes it...then I would agree. But I have a greater respect for humanity and it's abilities to deal with oppression. How many countless dictators have been taken down, if not by the public then by other dictators, and have lost the long-term battle for control. People have stated your point of view in regards to many other situations. Change is inevitable. Change is the only constant. Things have been oppressive there too long. Don't underestimate the people there. They are not stuiped. They are certainly passionate about thier beliefs. Good or bad. There may (will?) be a significant amount of bloodshed...but that is nothing new either.
I really don't know if it was right for the US to go in there and stir things up. Typically it gets worse before it gets better. The one thing I do know is that now we're there and we better not bail and run after what we've started. We may not be able to finish it, but we better make damn sure we don't go until we've given all we can to make it a peaceful, democratic place. However, it is ultimatly up to the people of a nation to decide how that nation will turn out.
Now, if I could just learn to spell.
It is true...the problems are just begining. But to say that Democracy is "impossible" in that region is simply not true. If they give up hope, if they decide to not take control themselves, if the general public lies down and takes it...then I would agree. But I have a greater respect for humanity and it's abilities to deal with oppression. How many countless dictators have been taken down, if not by the public then by other dictators, and have lost the long-term battle for control. People have stated your point of view in regards to many other situations. Change is inevitable. Change is the only constant. Things have been oppressive there too long. Don't underestimate the people there. They are not stuiped. They are certainly passionate about thier beliefs. Good or bad. There may (will?) be a significant amount of bloodshed...but that is nothing new either.
I really don't know if it was right for the US to go in there and stir things up. Typically it gets worse before it gets better. The one thing I do know is that now we're there and we better not bail and run after what we've started. We may not be able to finish it, but we better make damn sure we don't go until we've given all we can to make it a peaceful, democratic place. However, it is ultimatly up to the people of a nation to decide how that nation will turn out.
Now, if I could just learn to spell.
paxx
Reply #30 Friday, June 25, 2004 8:02 AM
Reply #30 Friday, June 25, 2004 8:02 AM
ToeJo, I dearly hope with all my heart that you are right...
lilstarfish
Reply #31 Friday, June 25, 2004 9:02 AM
Reply #31 Friday, June 25, 2004 9:02 AM
Thanks for the memories (Saddam Flash video)
http://www.politrix.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=434&mode=&order=0&thold=0
http://www.politrix.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=434&mode=&order=0&thold=0
Styl-X Design
Reply #32 Friday, June 25, 2004 11:47 AM
Reply #32 Friday, June 25, 2004 11:47 AM
Some stuff here DASN'T make sence! >
Tell me, what chemical weapons are found in iraq? NONE, thats right, not a single piece of a chemical, biological or even nuclear weapon.
I can hear you people think "yeah, but saddam is away now"... I don't care. Really.
Saying that Saddam is gone is just a damn excuse for the war. Lets face it, America had them self near Iraq, getting their soldiers back was too much of a shame for them so they just attacked. Even while the UN told them not to do so.
Lets make this clear by looking at it from another side:
Bush has nuclear weapons...
Bush has biological weapons
He didn't get his power in the 'right way', he wasn't fairly elected by the people... (hint: florida)
And as we see, he can't handle his power, he wont even listen to other countries if they tell them NOT TO ATTACK.
So saddam killed people that didn't listen to him... as far as I remember bush is also killing people that didn't listen to him.
We all have this pro-american view on the things that happen there but if you go down to iraq you wont see the people celebrating, this is just a view that is created. Talk to people that have been there. Or even better, look at the number of soldiers KILLED SINCE THE FALL OF SADDAM.
That americans and other people are getting killed is a shame yeah but if you would walk arround in vietnam while americans where fighting there you would get shot too, thats the thing when there is a war, people get shot and die.
NOTE: I do not have any pro-terrorist feelings but this is a simple result of people seeking media attention.
If america wasn't there in the first place these people wouldn't have been killed. I think you can even say this people died indirectly because of the actions president bush took.
This is my view and as much as you believe your view is right, I believe mine is right.
But understand, I do not live in the us, neither do I live in Iraq. I don't have any relation ship to America and I do not have any relation ship to Iraq. My view is a lot more objective I believe and the funny thing is, I am not the first person who is having this feeling about it.
And please, starting a war becuase you want to get rid of Saddam is rediculouse. I want to get rid of bush too but I do not start a war because of that....
Tell me, what chemical weapons are found in iraq? NONE, thats right, not a single piece of a chemical, biological or even nuclear weapon.
I can hear you people think "yeah, but saddam is away now"... I don't care. Really.
Saying that Saddam is gone is just a damn excuse for the war. Lets face it, America had them self near Iraq, getting their soldiers back was too much of a shame for them so they just attacked. Even while the UN told them not to do so.
Lets make this clear by looking at it from another side:
Bush has nuclear weapons...
Bush has biological weapons
He didn't get his power in the 'right way', he wasn't fairly elected by the people... (hint: florida)
And as we see, he can't handle his power, he wont even listen to other countries if they tell them NOT TO ATTACK.
So saddam killed people that didn't listen to him... as far as I remember bush is also killing people that didn't listen to him.
We all have this pro-american view on the things that happen there but if you go down to iraq you wont see the people celebrating, this is just a view that is created. Talk to people that have been there. Or even better, look at the number of soldiers KILLED SINCE THE FALL OF SADDAM.
That americans and other people are getting killed is a shame yeah but if you would walk arround in vietnam while americans where fighting there you would get shot too, thats the thing when there is a war, people get shot and die.
NOTE: I do not have any pro-terrorist feelings but this is a simple result of people seeking media attention.
If america wasn't there in the first place these people wouldn't have been killed. I think you can even say this people died indirectly because of the actions president bush took.
This is my view and as much as you believe your view is right, I believe mine is right.
But understand, I do not live in the us, neither do I live in Iraq. I don't have any relation ship to America and I do not have any relation ship to Iraq. My view is a lot more objective I believe and the funny thing is, I am not the first person who is having this feeling about it.
And please, starting a war becuase you want to get rid of Saddam is rediculouse. I want to get rid of bush too but I do not start a war because of that....
DesignCaddy
Reply #33 Friday, June 25, 2004 12:14 PM
our people are over there fighting and dying because they joined the military, because they knew that being in a war meant you ran a risk of fighting and dying. the hundreds of thousands of innocent people suffereing in iraq did not have a choice to die. they died because some people in power wanted to get their kicks, or because of their ethnicity. sure, if you kept in line and didn't speak out of turn, you weren't 'dissapeared'. but it wouldn't stop you from being randomly ed for rape or for-fun murder, living in fear day to day.
people have a right to live and to be free. sure, their miseries may have been none of our buisness. sure, we went to war falsely. but you will not make me believe the war is not, in the end, worth while. that entire area (the middle east) is just waiting to expload. people fight people for the most rediculous reasons.
oh look, we have a chance to participate in a government, and have our goals and aims shared with other people freely - so lets BOMB the new government and ruin everything they are trying to do, so we can spawn chaos and more death.
does it sound like those people would ever get their act together and run a free, peaceful coutnry? no. these countries and provences would war each other till the end of time, and their fight would spread across other countrys and into other continents. these people fight because they HAVE NO AIMS. they simply want to destroy things because they beleive their god will reward them for murder. Fixing iraq is one large step towards stabalizing the area. even if that's a small benefit behind stuffing our faces with oil, it is something that has to be done.
when iraq emerges from this as a civilized and stable country, with its oil making it as wealthy as Saudi Arabia, it will be symbol of muslum pride in the mid east that will shine like nothing before. afganistan is already on its way to being a good country. why? because they have gotten a hold of security and are rebuilding a country that has been war ravaged for years. simply seeing that country working towards a better future makes it a better place then it was before, and makes it a symbol of what civilized, democratic choices can do. and it's one less place you have to worry about exploading later. its peace and security will spread in time.
as for our government being responsible for the loss of life... you can't blame anyone for their decision to be there but the soldiers. and they made that decision because they believed in something. so while you're sitting here in a peaceful area, listening to your mtv and playing on your computer, don't think for a second that ANY OF YOU know what these people are thinking, or believe that you know they are dying in vain. they are the ones who know. and if they didnt want to do it, they would leave. so support their decision to fight, and die, for the chance of making a better world, instead of mocking their sacrifice.
>
Reply #33 Friday, June 25, 2004 12:14 PM
| If america wasn't there in the first place these people wouldn't have been killed. |
our people are over there fighting and dying because they joined the military, because they knew that being in a war meant you ran a risk of fighting and dying. the hundreds of thousands of innocent people suffereing in iraq did not have a choice to die. they died because some people in power wanted to get their kicks, or because of their ethnicity. sure, if you kept in line and didn't speak out of turn, you weren't 'dissapeared'. but it wouldn't stop you from being randomly ed for rape or for-fun murder, living in fear day to day.
people have a right to live and to be free. sure, their miseries may have been none of our buisness. sure, we went to war falsely. but you will not make me believe the war is not, in the end, worth while. that entire area (the middle east) is just waiting to expload. people fight people for the most rediculous reasons.
oh look, we have a chance to participate in a government, and have our goals and aims shared with other people freely - so lets BOMB the new government and ruin everything they are trying to do, so we can spawn chaos and more death.
does it sound like those people would ever get their act together and run a free, peaceful coutnry? no. these countries and provences would war each other till the end of time, and their fight would spread across other countrys and into other continents. these people fight because they HAVE NO AIMS. they simply want to destroy things because they beleive their god will reward them for murder. Fixing iraq is one large step towards stabalizing the area. even if that's a small benefit behind stuffing our faces with oil, it is something that has to be done.
when iraq emerges from this as a civilized and stable country, with its oil making it as wealthy as Saudi Arabia, it will be symbol of muslum pride in the mid east that will shine like nothing before. afganistan is already on its way to being a good country. why? because they have gotten a hold of security and are rebuilding a country that has been war ravaged for years. simply seeing that country working towards a better future makes it a better place then it was before, and makes it a symbol of what civilized, democratic choices can do. and it's one less place you have to worry about exploading later. its peace and security will spread in time.
as for our government being responsible for the loss of life... you can't blame anyone for their decision to be there but the soldiers. and they made that decision because they believed in something. so while you're sitting here in a peaceful area, listening to your mtv and playing on your computer, don't think for a second that ANY OF YOU know what these people are thinking, or believe that you know they are dying in vain. they are the ones who know. and if they didnt want to do it, they would leave. so support their decision to fight, and die, for the chance of making a better world, instead of mocking their sacrifice.
>
maasai
Reply #34 Friday, June 25, 2004 12:30 PM
Reply #34 Friday, June 25, 2004 12:30 PM
I agree with everything you've said and they are MONSTERS!! and a but pathetic if you ask me. NUKE 'EM!! 
Anthony R
Reply #35 Friday, June 25, 2004 12:47 PM
Reply #35 Friday, June 25, 2004 12:47 PM
I can understand your thinking Paxx, but if that type of thinking prevailed in past conflict, the US would have never attacked imperial Japan. We wouldn’t have wanted to destabilize it. Sounds ridiculous right? It’s not far off in analogy.
After all, the people of Japan were all savages who could never live peacefully in a civilized society weren’t they? How could the savage Japanese become part of the international community? How could the Imperial Japan that once rampaged across Asia, and inevitably exported their violence to the Pacific coast on Dec 7 1941 a day which will live in infamy, become civilized? If the Paxx thinking prevailed, Japan, a nation that once trained its pilots to go on suicide missions against American military targets, could never have joined the international community, because they were all savages.
We could go on with the analogy the world should have left Adolph Hitler in power because after all, Nazi Germany was stable. The US, Britain, Russians, and a few others could have just lain around as a whole world blackened with Nazism and fascism because to fight it would have only destabilized everything. Unless you believe Hussein was not a threat, this is a valid analogy.
And why should Lincoln have destabilized America to free the slaves? He pitted brother against brother, and as a result 600,000 men died in battle during the bloodiest war in American history, but as history has proven, Lincoln was right, FDR was right, Truman was right, and I believe Bush is right.
Saddam Hussein was a threat. All indications from the first world trade bombing implicate Iraq in that plot. It is no coincidence that one of the first WTC bombers was an Iraqi cousin of Khalid sheik Muhammad, the Al Qaeda mastermind of the sept 11th attack. And one of the Iraqi bombers from the 1993 WTC attack fled back to Iraq where he received sanctuary from prosecution.
Saddam Hussein openly celebrated the sept 11th attack, and he was a sworn enemy of the United States. And In a post sept 11th world, he was a liability that we could not afford. After listening to first hand accounts of what happened on Sept 11th from my sister (who was at the scene) and others, I would have approved of Hussein’s removal just for the suspicion of his complicity in the attack.
Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait as mercilessly as Hitler invaded Poland. He gassed his own people who were indigenous to his own nation. Hussein possessed the same qualities of the Spaniards, who brutalized and murdered those who were indigenous to Spain.
The Moors lived peacefully in Spain for centuries. A day came when the fanatical and racially motivated Spaniards decided that the Moor no longer welcome. In short, the Spaniards were willing to brutalize their own people, so it was no surprise when they were willing to export their brutality in a much more virulent form. That is a phenomenon seen with Stalin, Hitler, and Hussein. Look at the pictures of the people recovering remains from Hussein’s mass graves and then ask yourself if that is just political rhetoric. The people claiming the bones of their loved ones will never forget Hussein’s brutality.
The US must prevail in Iraq, there is no other option. This is not Vietnam, where the US had the luxury of withdrawal. The Viet Cong had no interest in exporting their violence to American shores, the Islamo-Facists do.
The region has exploded in waves of car bombings and killings. Zarqawi is the key, he is a veteran of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and he is responsible for the organized attacks in this region. If they can kill or capture him and members of his network, they can begin to get this violence under manageable control and give the future of humanity a stable, non threatening Iraq.
After all, the people of Japan were all savages who could never live peacefully in a civilized society weren’t they? How could the savage Japanese become part of the international community? How could the Imperial Japan that once rampaged across Asia, and inevitably exported their violence to the Pacific coast on Dec 7 1941 a day which will live in infamy, become civilized? If the Paxx thinking prevailed, Japan, a nation that once trained its pilots to go on suicide missions against American military targets, could never have joined the international community, because they were all savages.
We could go on with the analogy the world should have left Adolph Hitler in power because after all, Nazi Germany was stable. The US, Britain, Russians, and a few others could have just lain around as a whole world blackened with Nazism and fascism because to fight it would have only destabilized everything. Unless you believe Hussein was not a threat, this is a valid analogy.
And why should Lincoln have destabilized America to free the slaves? He pitted brother against brother, and as a result 600,000 men died in battle during the bloodiest war in American history, but as history has proven, Lincoln was right, FDR was right, Truman was right, and I believe Bush is right.
Saddam Hussein was a threat. All indications from the first world trade bombing implicate Iraq in that plot. It is no coincidence that one of the first WTC bombers was an Iraqi cousin of Khalid sheik Muhammad, the Al Qaeda mastermind of the sept 11th attack. And one of the Iraqi bombers from the 1993 WTC attack fled back to Iraq where he received sanctuary from prosecution.
Saddam Hussein openly celebrated the sept 11th attack, and he was a sworn enemy of the United States. And In a post sept 11th world, he was a liability that we could not afford. After listening to first hand accounts of what happened on Sept 11th from my sister (who was at the scene) and others, I would have approved of Hussein’s removal just for the suspicion of his complicity in the attack.
Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait as mercilessly as Hitler invaded Poland. He gassed his own people who were indigenous to his own nation. Hussein possessed the same qualities of the Spaniards, who brutalized and murdered those who were indigenous to Spain.
The Moors lived peacefully in Spain for centuries. A day came when the fanatical and racially motivated Spaniards decided that the Moor no longer welcome. In short, the Spaniards were willing to brutalize their own people, so it was no surprise when they were willing to export their brutality in a much more virulent form. That is a phenomenon seen with Stalin, Hitler, and Hussein. Look at the pictures of the people recovering remains from Hussein’s mass graves and then ask yourself if that is just political rhetoric. The people claiming the bones of their loved ones will never forget Hussein’s brutality.
The US must prevail in Iraq, there is no other option. This is not Vietnam, where the US had the luxury of withdrawal. The Viet Cong had no interest in exporting their violence to American shores, the Islamo-Facists do.
The region has exploded in waves of car bombings and killings. Zarqawi is the key, he is a veteran of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and he is responsible for the organized attacks in this region. If they can kill or capture him and members of his network, they can begin to get this violence under manageable control and give the future of humanity a stable, non threatening Iraq.
_footsie_
Reply #36 Friday, June 25, 2004 12:53 PM
Reply #36 Friday, June 25, 2004 12:53 PM
If nobody were taught to talk we would all just run around grabbing and grunting...
if nobody were taught to care for one another then we would all probably run around just grabbing and grunting....
people that have generations of cruelty in their histories cannot just one day 'dawn' on the idea that there is another way.....someone has to help....
we all need to maybe show them that there really really IS Hope!
if nobody were taught to care for one another then we would all probably run around just grabbing and grunting....
people that have generations of cruelty in their histories cannot just one day 'dawn' on the idea that there is another way.....someone has to help....
we all need to maybe show them that there really really IS Hope!
Essencay
Reply #37 Friday, June 25, 2004 1:00 PM
Funny how Turkey which was the Ottoman Empire prior to WWI is now a democracy with a muslim population.
The American public is fickled, polls came be made to say whatever you want them to say, it's a numbers game and no one asked me my opinion and last time I checked I was still an American
I agree 100 percent. All televsion media is biased.
I suppose Sarin and Mustard Gas are new salad dressings offered at the local Iraqi Burger King.
America has not used an atomic weapon against another country in over 50 years. Ask the Kurds and the Iranians about Saddam's use of chemical weapons or were those daisies he was carelessly tossing about.
Can't remember when the UN became the all powerful world government. Didn't see it on the last ballot, during the last election.
Gore didn't get elected because he lost Tennessee. The mess down in Florida was straighten out by the US Judicial system and the American people don't elected the president the Electoral College does. Bush didn't win the popular vote and he wasn't the first elected US president not to win the popular vote.
If that was the case why's Michael Moore still kicking. How long do you think an Iraqi version of Michael Moore would've lasted in Saddam's Iraq?
If I have a Pro-American view, probably 'cause I'm an American, kind of goes with the territory. Since I haven't been down to Iraq to see or not see people celebrating, I unfortunately have to rely on what the news media shows. Last time I looked all the news media was showing was car bombings, beheadings, air-strikes, terrorism, etc. My gut feeling is that if I was in that situation, I'd be with my head down low and moving, definitely wouldn't be dancing in the streets. I'm betting that most Iraqis are celebrating either.
I don't believe my view is right....I just what I believe or know.
I agree with you there, we should've taken him out during the first war, when we had better international support, I mean German and French government support.
Speaking of the French Government....George Bush has proposed to the UN that we fund educating the 20 million illerate/uneducated people in that region. Train teachers, rebuild a fair judicial system, just some of the stuff that was not on the top of Saddam's Hit Parade. Three countries voted against it. Egypt, Iran and France. I easily understand Egypt and Iran, because a truly democratic Iraq, with an educated and free population is a threat to upheaval in their countrys, which are basically dictatorships. France you have to dig a little deeper to figure out why that government voted against this.....
Reply #37 Friday, June 25, 2004 1:00 PM
| Democracy is impossible in that region |
| 54% of Americans think so too now. |
| Al Jazeera. They are no better than CNN, but certainly no worse |
| what chemical weapons are found in iraq? NONE |
| Bush has nuclear weapons...Bush has biological weapons |
| so they just attacked. Even while the UN told them not to do so. |
| He didn't get his power in the 'right way', he wasn't fairly elected by the people... (hint: florida) |
| So saddam killed people that didn't listen to him... as far as I remember bush is also killing people that didn't listen to him. |
| We all have this pro-american view on the things that happen there but if you go down to iraq you wont see the people celebrating, this is just a view that is created. |
| This is my view and as much as you believe your view is right, I believe mine is right. |
| starting a war becuase you want to get rid of Saddam is rediculouse. |
Speaking of the French Government....George Bush has proposed to the UN that we fund educating the 20 million illerate/uneducated people in that region. Train teachers, rebuild a fair judicial system, just some of the stuff that was not on the top of Saddam's Hit Parade. Three countries voted against it. Egypt, Iran and France. I easily understand Egypt and Iran, because a truly democratic Iraq, with an educated and free population is a threat to upheaval in their countrys, which are basically dictatorships. France you have to dig a little deeper to figure out why that government voted against this.....
Essencay
Reply #38 Friday, June 25, 2004 1:03 PM
Reply #38 Friday, June 25, 2004 1:03 PM
Anthony R....I wish I had your way with words...well said 
lilstarfish
Reply #39 Friday, June 25, 2004 1:20 PM
Reply #39 Friday, June 25, 2004 1:20 PM
Anthony R, why don't you tell Paxx what agency helped Saddam
to power through a very bloody coup back in the 60's?
While you are at it, maybe also tell Paxx that even the
FBI have admitted that they still "don't know" who the
"terrorists" behind 9/11 were?
That seven(7) of the 19 persons the FBI put up as
"suspects" of the 9/11 attack were found to be alive
and well in other parts of the world and not having
anything whatsoever to do with "terrorism"?
Isn't it strange that the FBI never bothered to revise their
list at least after the fact that Müller himself said that
they have no idea who the perpetrators were since they
all "probably used stolen or faked passports"?
And isn't it strange that the airlines passenger lists
didn't have any of the 19 names on them?
Now, if the 19 "suspected terrorists" never were real,
how could the government link them to "al-Qaeda" only
hours after the "attack".
Something for you all to read while pondering the questions...
From "The National Security Archive"
Operation Northwoods
"Written in response to a request from the Chief of the Cuba Project, Col. Edward Lansdale, the Top Secret memorandum describes U.S. plans to covertly engineer various pretexts that would justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba. These proposals - part of a secret anti-Castro program known as Operation Mongoose - included staging the assassinations of Cubans living in the United States, developing a fake "Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington," including "sink[ing] a boatload of Cuban refugees (real or simulated)," faking a Cuban airforce attack on a civilian jetliner, and concocting a "Remember the Maine" incident by blowing up a U.S. ship in Cuban waters and then blaming the incident on Cuban sabotage. Bamford himself writes that Operation Northwoods "may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government.""
Download the pdf of the original documents at the link at the bottom
of the page saying:
"Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba [includes cover memoranda], March 13, 1962, TOP SECRET, 15 pp."
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/
Then you just need to decide if you will "take the red pill or the blue pill" so to speak.
[Message Edited]
to power through a very bloody coup back in the 60's?
While you are at it, maybe also tell Paxx that even the
FBI have admitted that they still "don't know" who the
"terrorists" behind 9/11 were?
That seven(7) of the 19 persons the FBI put up as
"suspects" of the 9/11 attack were found to be alive
and well in other parts of the world and not having
anything whatsoever to do with "terrorism"?
Isn't it strange that the FBI never bothered to revise their
list at least after the fact that Müller himself said that
they have no idea who the perpetrators were since they
all "probably used stolen or faked passports"?
And isn't it strange that the airlines passenger lists
didn't have any of the 19 names on them?
Now, if the 19 "suspected terrorists" never were real,
how could the government link them to "al-Qaeda" only
hours after the "attack".
Something for you all to read while pondering the questions...
From "The National Security Archive"
Operation Northwoods
"Written in response to a request from the Chief of the Cuba Project, Col. Edward Lansdale, the Top Secret memorandum describes U.S. plans to covertly engineer various pretexts that would justify a U.S. invasion of Cuba. These proposals - part of a secret anti-Castro program known as Operation Mongoose - included staging the assassinations of Cubans living in the United States, developing a fake "Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington," including "sink[ing] a boatload of Cuban refugees (real or simulated)," faking a Cuban airforce attack on a civilian jetliner, and concocting a "Remember the Maine" incident by blowing up a U.S. ship in Cuban waters and then blaming the incident on Cuban sabotage. Bamford himself writes that Operation Northwoods "may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government.""
Download the pdf of the original documents at the link at the bottom
of the page saying:
"Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba [includes cover memoranda], March 13, 1962, TOP SECRET, 15 pp."
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/
Then you just need to decide if you will "take the red pill or the blue pill" so to speak.
[Message Edited]
DesignCaddy
Reply #40 Friday, June 25, 2004 3:27 PM
well said.
snk, well said.
shamefull, regrettable, howeveR: that is like throwing someone in jail because they were thinking the thought of killing someone. northwoods, luckily, never happened .. and for that, you can't use that in an arguement.
things HAVE happened in the past that no one knows about, that our modern day government had nothing to do with, probobly wouldn't condone, and our people wouldn't condone had they known about it. but what of the other atrocities that go on every day all over the world.. un checked, un punished..that every one does know about? i would think the wrongful thinking of a few bad eggs pales in comparison to the events that actually take place.
now, for the suspects.. i don't know where you're getting the fbi 'has no idea who is behind it' because from what i've been following of the 9/11 comission, the fbi has been defending themselves with the substantial evidence of who was communicated by what, and when the dates were that got delayed, and so on.
Reply #40 Friday, June 25, 2004 3:27 PM
| We could go on with the analogy the world should have left Adolph Hitler in power because after all, Nazi Germany was stable. The US, Britain, Russians, and a few others could have just lain around as a whole world blackened with Nazism and fascism because to fight it would have only destabilized everything. Unless you believe Hussein was not a threat, this is a valid analogy. |
well said.
snk, well said.
| #39 by Citizen lilstarfish |
shamefull, regrettable, howeveR: that is like throwing someone in jail because they were thinking the thought of killing someone. northwoods, luckily, never happened .. and for that, you can't use that in an arguement.
things HAVE happened in the past that no one knows about, that our modern day government had nothing to do with, probobly wouldn't condone, and our people wouldn't condone had they known about it. but what of the other atrocities that go on every day all over the world.. un checked, un punished..that every one does know about? i would think the wrongful thinking of a few bad eggs pales in comparison to the events that actually take place.
now, for the suspects.. i don't know where you're getting the fbi 'has no idea who is behind it' because from what i've been following of the 9/11 comission, the fbi has been defending themselves with the substantial evidence of who was communicated by what, and when the dates were that got delayed, and so on.
Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
- Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
- Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
- Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
- It's simple, and FREE!
|
|
Page 2 of 4 | |
|
|---|
Reply #21 Wednesday, June 23, 2004 8:38 AM
first off there is a documentary hitting a few theaters this summer (film festival indepedent winner) about al jazeera, which seeks to dispell a lot of the misconceptions about the station. a reporter basically sits down in there office and watches what goes on, and interviews the people that work there. i urge everyone to check it out..
6 months ago i thought the same thing, the station was just a front for terrorist organizations.. how else could they be the only one with all this news, how could they be involved in everything that goes on, why would it be only musilim?
fact is they are simply the only ones in the position to BE THERE reporting what goes on. in an area that is noted for state controlled telivions and manipulation on speech by the governments, al jazeera is the first news agency to run into the area without a dictator over their heads and show the news as it is. they are the first organization to report on politics, religion, the role of women, and of course the war - but without state control. they are trying to get an as-is word out to people who previously havn't known of such freedom of speech. yes, i dont like the dead bodies and seemengly biased information. but i don't believe it is any different then the way CNN dramatasizes everything. they are doing a job that is HARD to do in the area. being muslum, and the largest news agency in the area, they will of course receive all of the letters and tapes from alqueda and other organizations. but don't be suprised when al queda turns on them, like they turn on every other muslum government, or organization, when the news agency makes some report they don't like.
i still have my concerns about them, but i've recently open my eyes a bit to them to say 'its not what i think it is'. lets cut them some slack