Rating Skin without Comments is not productive.
Thursday, June 17, 2004 by TYBSP | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I'm not sure what is worse, a lower rating without a comment as to why the low rating, or no ratings at all. I have had both. An updated skin went from an 8 to a 6 with no comments as to what the problem was or how I might improve. Another skin I recently uploaded has over 2300 downloads and only one rating. I assume thats the rating the moderators put on it. Both situations are not very helpful in trying to improve my work.
Is this a problem for anyone else?
Is this a problem for anyone else?
TYBSP
Reply #2 Thursday, June 17, 2004 1:42 PM
Reply #2 Thursday, June 17, 2004 1:42 PM
I agree. I have left ratings for some skins but I always make comments as to what I percieve can be improved on. I may be wrong in my assessment but at least it is a justification for my rating in my mind.
I would like to see the rating button be dependent on the comments button. ie... a rating cannot be left without a comment.
I would like to see the rating button be dependent on the comments button. ie... a rating cannot be left without a comment.
NightTrainthedark
Reply #3 Thursday, June 17, 2004 1:43 PM
Reply #3 Thursday, June 17, 2004 1:43 PM
The only sure way to get a good read on how others view your work is to submit it to www.skinartistry.com . Other skinners will review the skin and give you completely honest feedback. Otherwise all your gonna get is the usual oooh's and aaah's as well as the trollish comments. I urge you to submit the skins in question for review. In the end you will have all the answers you want. Do not wait for the general public to give feedback because it probably won't happen. As hard as it is you have to just ignore the ratings. Sometimes they are accurate and sometimes they are not. The mods have explained to me how the ratings work and I believe that the system that is place is pretty fair and they have put quite alot of thought into it. 
TYBSP
Reply #4 Thursday, June 17, 2004 1:48 PM
Reply #4 Thursday, June 17, 2004 1:48 PM
I read the thread that explains the rating system and it does make sense. If fact you can almost know what rating you should have based on the explanations. But I dont believe the ratings we are getting are based on that explanation. I'll try skinartistry, it sound like a good place to get real critiques. Thanx NT2002
Essencay
Reply #5 Thursday, June 17, 2004 3:37 PM
Reply #5 Thursday, June 17, 2004 3:37 PM
Hi, TYBSP....I don't know which thread you are refering to....a link to it would be helpful for all. If it was my post in this thread https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=281010 Thanks I'm glad that someone sees that scale as reasonable ratings explanations. If it wasn't, I'll go deflate my swelled head right now 
There is also a plead from Macrobaye https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=264739 asking members with the capability to rate...to rate and comment.
I'm glad that someone sees that scale as reasonable ratings explanations. If it wasn't, I'll go deflate my swelled head right now 
There is also a plead from Macrobaye https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=264739 asking members with the capability to rate...to rate and comment.
Jafo
Reply #6 Thursday, June 17, 2004 6:41 PM
Reply #6 Thursday, June 17, 2004 6:41 PM
TYBSP...if you think there is an anomaly with your ratings contact an admin and he/she can look into who/what was posted and discern any evil-doing....
Apocalypse_67
Reply #7 Thursday, June 17, 2004 6:52 PM
Reply #7 Thursday, June 17, 2004 6:52 PM
TYBSP, this has been the never-ending-ongoing-issue of all times.
Basically it breaks down to 2 groups
1- Those that download, use, comment and rate (fairly) and
2- Those that rate without knowledge on what they are doing (Most of the time with the intention of lowering the ratings)
A work with a 10 rating after three scores means 3 people gave it a 10, but if the work shows an 8 rating after a forth score, means a forth person gave it a 2
You can always contact an admin and have them check if in fact an unfair low rating was granted to your work. The can remove the rating and keep an eye on the person rating low.
Jafo beat me to the punch line
[Message Edited]
Basically it breaks down to 2 groups
1- Those that download, use, comment and rate (fairly) and
2- Those that rate without knowledge on what they are doing (Most of the time with the intention of lowering the ratings)
A work with a 10 rating after three scores means 3 people gave it a 10, but if the work shows an 8 rating after a forth score, means a forth person gave it a 2
You can always contact an admin and have them check if in fact an unfair low rating was granted to your work. The can remove the rating and keep an eye on the person rating low.
Jafo beat me to the punch line
[Message Edited]
TYBSP
Reply #8 Thursday, June 17, 2004 7:59 PM
Reply #8 Thursday, June 17, 2004 7:59 PM
Essencay:
Yep thats the thread. https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=281010#281673
I believe that is a fair rating process. Of course thats a baseline rating system and can be altered for preference. But still it gives us an Idea of about what our skins might rate, give or take a level.
As for removing a rating, I would hate to do that if the person rating low has a valid reason for it. The skin I got thumped on went from an 8 to a 6. Ouch!!! If I could fix the reason for causing such a rating drop I would surely do it.
Oh Well, I guess.
Thanx for the input everyone. Its nice to have a sounding board that will actually sound back.
Yep thats the thread. https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=281010#281673
I believe that is a fair rating process. Of course thats a baseline rating system and can be altered for preference. But still it gives us an Idea of about what our skins might rate, give or take a level.
As for removing a rating, I would hate to do that if the person rating low has a valid reason for it. The skin I got thumped on went from an 8 to a 6. Ouch!!! If I could fix the reason for causing such a rating drop I would surely do it.
Oh Well, I guess.
Thanx for the input everyone. Its nice to have a sounding board that will actually sound back.
Jafo
Reply #9 Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:09 PM
Reply #9 Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:09 PM
One of the [for me] eagerly awaited features of Wincustomize 2005 will be a 'weighting system' for ratings which simply means that the 'more experienced' members of the site will have a bigger influence over the resulting averaged rating.
What this simplisticly does is make it less likely that a casual 'novice' to the skinning world will not unduly 'mangle' a skin's rating through inexperience or mean intent, or both...
eieio
Reply #10 Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:22 PM
Reply #10 Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:22 PM
Partly because of Macrobaye's thread and also because of the Skinartistry Workshop, I recently started downloading, trying out, commenting, and rating as much as I can on WB skins.
I just felt if I'm going to be serious about the intent of the Skin Workshop (helping other skinners, and probably learning a few things as well), I should do it here also.
So, fair warning.
If I comment on your skin, I've used it, checked it out and rated it also.
I just felt if I'm going to be serious about the intent of the Skin Workshop (helping other skinners, and probably learning a few things as well), I should do it here also.
So, fair warning.
If I comment on your skin, I've used it, checked it out and rated it also.
TYBSP
Reply #11 Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:27 PM
Reply #11 Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:27 PM
That sounds reasonable Jafo.
It would seem that the required 4 or 5 member level is in place for the same reason but that doesn’t stop anyone from buying a few programs and then being able to vote. Heck, that’s basically how I became able to rate others.
Another way would be to only allow ratings from those who have created a few skins. At least then the rating would be backed up by hands on skin development. A rating from someone who only bases it on how it looks is not as valid as one based on knowledge of skinstudio, graphics, and how to combine them. It would also eliminate many trolls from rating.
It would seem that the required 4 or 5 member level is in place for the same reason but that doesn’t stop anyone from buying a few programs and then being able to vote. Heck, that’s basically how I became able to rate others.
Another way would be to only allow ratings from those who have created a few skins. At least then the rating would be backed up by hands on skin development. A rating from someone who only bases it on how it looks is not as valid as one based on knowledge of skinstudio, graphics, and how to combine them. It would also eliminate many trolls from rating.
Apocalypse_67
Reply #12 Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:31 PM
Reply #12 Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:31 PM
That is the perfect approach Pictoratus
Jafo, I too await for that feature to be put in practice
TYBSP, the problem is that most (if not all) of the time, the person doesnt have a valid reason, if they did, they would make a comment on how or what to improve, wait for an update and then rate.
Jafo, I too await for that feature to be put in practice
| I would hate to do that if the person rating low has a valid reason for it. |
TYBSP, the problem is that most (if not all) of the time, the person doesnt have a valid reason, if they did, they would make a comment on how or what to improve, wait for an update and then rate.
GhoS
Reply #13 Thursday, June 17, 2004 9:31 PM
Reply #13 Thursday, June 17, 2004 9:31 PM
I don't like the idea of limiting rating to only those who create skins. There are many of us who do not possess the skills to create skins but enjoy using them and feel qualified to rate and comment on skins.
For myself, when I rate a skin I will provide a comment if I rate it lower than 6. Usually though I choose not to rate if I am unhappy with the skin and merely provide a comment with the issues I have with it.
I do think some people don't choose ratings that fit, however of course ratings are subjective. Not everyone is going to like the same skins so I don't think one bad rating necessarily means someone is undermining your rating.
However the update that weights rates based on tenure seems a plausible thing to combat those who might choose to be malicious.
For myself, when I rate a skin I will provide a comment if I rate it lower than 6. Usually though I choose not to rate if I am unhappy with the skin and merely provide a comment with the issues I have with it.
I do think some people don't choose ratings that fit, however of course ratings are subjective. Not everyone is going to like the same skins so I don't think one bad rating necessarily means someone is undermining your rating.
However the update that weights rates based on tenure seems a plausible thing to combat those who might choose to be malicious.
ToeJo
Reply #14 Thursday, June 17, 2004 10:05 PM
I don't typically rate skins because of this mentality. Especially if I don't really like the skin. I have been around using skins and WB for quite some time. Since before WC was ever on the net. My question to you is this...As a skinner, would you appreciate my comments and ratings or would my lack of ability to create a skin automatically null and void my comments? Do each of you as skinners even care what someone in my position thinks?
Personally...I think I would have some good suggestions, but have always been unwilling to share them because I'm not a real "skinner." Kinda like a JAFU...Just another foolish user.
Reply #14 Thursday, June 17, 2004 10:05 PM
| Another way would be to only allow ratings from those who have created a few skins. At least then the rating would be backed up by hands on skin development. A rating from someone who only bases it on how it looks is not as valid as one based on knowledge of skinstudio, graphics, and how to combine them. |
I don't typically rate skins because of this mentality. Especially if I don't really like the skin. I have been around using skins and WB for quite some time. Since before WC was ever on the net. My question to you is this...As a skinner, would you appreciate my comments and ratings or would my lack of ability to create a skin automatically null and void my comments? Do each of you as skinners even care what someone in my position thinks?
Personally...I think I would have some good suggestions, but have always been unwilling to share them because I'm not a real "skinner." Kinda like a JAFU...Just another foolish user.
TYBSP
Reply #15 Thursday, June 17, 2004 10:45 PM
Reply #15 Thursday, June 17, 2004 10:45 PM
Actually ToeJo, If a person is willing to rate a skin with more than a "I just dont like it" attitude, I would be willing to accept the rating if it is accompanied by an intellegent comment as to why a person rates a skin low.
I like the ideas of Essencay in the thread here https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=281010#281673 where he discusses some reasonable criteria for rating skins. I guess the reason I said that only skinners should rate is because they are more qualified to determine if a person put the extra work into a particular aspect of a skin than a non skinner. Sure, a non skinner can determine if a lot of work was put into a skin or not, but they would still not understand the little details it takes to make a skin work and weather or not the skinner put extra work into those details or not.
I guess it all comes down to weather or not the person rating a skin is seriously trying to use their brain to rate or just being a troll. And the major issue is, if your going to rate a skin, take the time to comment on why you rate the way you do.
As an amatuer skinner, I appreciate the constructive comments because they help me improve. But it is a real boost when you get rave reviews also. So I guess comments are nice to have weather a person rates high or low. Either way ppl should LEAVE A COMMENT WITH YOUR RATING PLEASE!!!
As you quoted in the above message ToeJo, ratings based soley on looks can be mere opinions and preferences. Ratings based on the criteria that Essencay mentioned are more accurate. IMHO
[Message Edited]
I like the ideas of Essencay in the thread here https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=281010#281673 where he discusses some reasonable criteria for rating skins. I guess the reason I said that only skinners should rate is because they are more qualified to determine if a person put the extra work into a particular aspect of a skin than a non skinner. Sure, a non skinner can determine if a lot of work was put into a skin or not, but they would still not understand the little details it takes to make a skin work and weather or not the skinner put extra work into those details or not.
I guess it all comes down to weather or not the person rating a skin is seriously trying to use their brain to rate or just being a troll. And the major issue is, if your going to rate a skin, take the time to comment on why you rate the way you do.
As an amatuer skinner, I appreciate the constructive comments because they help me improve. But it is a real boost when you get rave reviews also. So I guess comments are nice to have weather a person rates high or low. Either way ppl should LEAVE A COMMENT WITH YOUR RATING PLEASE!!!
As you quoted in the above message ToeJo, ratings based soley on looks can be mere opinions and preferences. Ratings based on the criteria that Essencay mentioned are more accurate. IMHO
[Message Edited]
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Reply #1 Thursday, June 17, 2004 1:36 PM
Some people either A- do not rate at all or B- do not leave comments at all.
I have been a culprit of the "no comment" myself. If I download something and do not like it I will not leave a comment but I will also not rate it. I am a firm believer in that if you rate you should comment and visa versa if you chose.