what is the deal with MAC people???

Saturday, April 17, 2004 by DesignCaddy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk

there, i said it! "what IS the deal?". i gave up on the PC mac debate a while ago, previously i was always up for the fight. but having used both systems extensively over the last 6 months, there is just no reason to argue. i use both, i design for both, i prefer a pc. they both can do the same things now. they both have their issues. there is no such thing as 'just plug it in and it works'. case in point, my gf's brand new g4. not a single thing we plugged into that thing, except for the keyboard and mouse, laoded right up with a whole lot of fighting. (moot point but i plugged the same devices into my laptop to see if the devices were broken, they both came up instantly). both machines are in the same boat now with the exception that one is unix and one is windows and of course unix can do things windows can't and vise versa.

having said that. what is the deal. i was at a bar last night with an old friend, hadn't seen him in a year, and he begins to argue with me out of the blue about how he can't imagine why i'm on a pc and how he can do so much more with a g5 he wants to get (mind you, he is a sculpter and has no need for it). i try to tell him 'look, i wont argue with you, to each his own i've used both i prefer the pc. i just do'. he doesn't let it , and he continues to argue with me. it takes me 5 minutes to end the convo.

we slide down the table to a friend of his who allegedly is a graphic designer. jay and i talk about this zine i used to run and i mention how i didn't know enough about the web back then to get it to work on a mac. this guy out of the blue starts flipping out about how safari is the most superior browser on the planet and how nothing works right unless its on a mac. i try to tell him calmly over and over how from the start of the conversation i agreed with him on something about how safari treats code. but he just doens't get it. he doesn't even listen to me, and he goes on and on about how safari is so beyond its time regardless that he began by talking about how nazi safari is on its code. (i say if you can screw up coding on IE, and it still figures out how to display the page properly, that has to be a testiment to the browser's design. but nobody seems to get that. anyway..) it takes me 5 minutes to calm the guy down, and he begins to ignore me completeley as i talk to jay. then i mention to jay how i also didn't make the graphics right for a mac. the guy turns around sharply again and goes off again. 'what do you mean the graphics wouldn't work right on a mac?' i calmly and slowely explain to him that i didn't know enough about clean coding and making graphics for the web to make a sliced up image display its table properly on the different platform.

this is a phenominum i've only ever ecountered with apple users. if you attempt to point out a limitation on their machine they jump all over you. they refuse to listen to anything you say when you might be blatently correct. however if you mention something baout what a PC can't do, its all 'thats because microsoft sucks and its all corporate money grubbing'.

furthermore, they pick a fight with you when you arn't even contrasting the two. in this case i was talking about how i was a young programmer and didn't know enough about the web to make things look good on both machines, and they argued with me it was the equipment i was using.

i have never come across a pc person who out of the blue flies off the handle about their machine. however every single mac user i've met has tried to fight me.

a good friend of mine recently moved from a pc to a mac because of the changes panther brought baout on the apple. he still keeps an open mind about what both can do.

i am a graphic designer.. i think if i can design on a pc, take it to press and have a flawless product without any conmversion of layout, color, or type, then i just might know what i'm talking about. but they never care. professors, friends, my boss at work. they still tell me if i ever want to go anywhere i need to be on a mac. its just bull.
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XX
Reply #21 Sunday, April 18, 2004 2:43 PM
I agree. I don't like mac due to experience, but I don't try to harass mac users to change camp to PC.

I got harassed by mac users once or 2 times so far.
DesignCaddy
Reply #22 Sunday, April 18, 2004 3:52 PM
the most common thing i hear, being in the graphics industry of course, is that macs will handle graphics better. i suppose that might be true on the cache level... but while one car might be faster then the other with the same engine because of the way the transmission is designed, i have basically the same hardware as my gf's dual g4... we both have 128 meg radeons and a gig of memory, and my athlon xp 1.5 works a whole lot faster in processing large photoshop images. so i just havn't seen the the performance everyone keeps telling me about. not that i'll deny the power is there, but its so frustrating to have my PROFESSORS at school dogging me and teasing me because im in a mac computer lab working on my hp laptop.. telling me everytime some silly little error comes up that its because i have a pc.. telling me that my PC can't handle design. it just doesn't make sense.. they don't have autocad on apple machines for a reason.. why should illustrator work better on a mac? its things like that and the constant dogging i get that makes me say.. close mindedness? i want to tell them 'just accept that it works better for me than a mac ever did and leave it at that. '

i'm thrilled to hear maro uses both and he prefers the imac.. but in what i do i can't get the job done on the 1100$ ibook (my gf bought it the other day) whilst my 1300$ hp laptop runs a wicked adobe suite with room to spare. as for quality/longevity, macro, haha there is indeed a difference between the 400$ dell and a multi-thousand$ computer.. but even the higher end dells, which we have in our single pc lab at school, are workhorses that will last a long time and didn't cost more than 1.5k a pop. even at that, my 400mhz celeron HP pavilion from '98 is till fiesty as ever..there is no breaking down there so i don't believe longevity is an arguement at all, as long as the person isn't beating on it with a hammer.



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DesignCaddy
Reply #23 Sunday, April 18, 2004 3:57 PM
games are comming out more and more on mac platform now.. NWN and unreal for example..and im thrilled NWN is now out on apple, means i can play with the rest of my friends. more apple computers were sold in the last two years then were in the last TEN years put together. expect to see even more programs for that OS, along with more and more cross platform compatability. its sucha nice feeling to be able to take an AI9 file to a mac without any conversion issues, or save a word document and bring it up without any issues. im in a mostly adobe/macromedia/office world and never run into problems.



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Matchbook
Reply #24 Sunday, April 18, 2004 5:40 PM
...very rarely [never] have I witnessed a PC user strike up a conversation with a MAC user, saying: "You use a MAC?! muahaha, what, are you retarded or something?"....

But it seems from my experience [keep in mind, I said MY experience] the opposite *does* occur, more frequently than most would admit. I'm with DesignCaddy on this.
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #25 Sunday, April 18, 2004 5:59 PM
Mac users are such a small minority you can safely ignore them
macrobaye
Reply #26 Sunday, April 18, 2004 6:16 PM
Actually spiderbyte, almost every PC user I've encountered that found out that I've got a mac started up an ignorant one sided debate about how macs suck. PC users are just as protective of their computers than mac users are, and despite mac users being a minority, you can't just ignore them, because depite the fact that mac users have 3% market share, they make up about 20% of the computers that are in use today

When people use that 3% figure, they don't realize that that is in terms of computers sold that year. Obviously people buy PCs more often than macs because macs last longer. While the avg PC life would be about 2 years, the avg mac life is probably 5 years.
Jafo
Reply #27 Sunday, April 18, 2004 8:58 PM

3% market share, they make up about 20% of the computers that are in use today

Curious statistic there.....particularly if it has anything to do with the second comment...that a Mac averages 5 years to a PC's 2.

I'm sure these two equations can be solved....and the variables....x Macs and Y PCs will yield an amusing result....

DesignCaddy
Reply #28 Monday, April 19, 2004 12:00 AM
maybe they buy pc's more often because they cost less. hell i'm just teasing again.. they all use the same hardware nowadays, as i said. one therefore shouldn't live any longer then the other.

as long as the person isn't beating on it with a hammer.


i won't accept a pc only averages 2 years.. people might want to replace/upgrade them after that time, but sorry, with that hp of mine still kickin and my athlon going on 2 years now without a glitch, and with all the computers i see in my office, as much as they get beat on we still have machines in there going on 4 years. now one of our it guys has an imac he just upgraded to a g3 which was a pretty slick move, and now he's going to try to move it to g4. thats an old machine he's had since 97 or 98. alternatively i just gutted a 486 case and ped in a new athlon 3800, whole new system.
XX
Reply #29 Monday, April 19, 2004 1:18 AM
My computer is 4 years old, with last major upgrade over 2 years ago. The last computer lived to be bit under 9 years.
Essencay
Reply #30 Monday, April 19, 2004 2:51 AM
Background....
Part of the business my Dad-inlaw does is refurbish computers for resale/recycle parts for cash. The computer equipment is donated/tax written-off by various businesses around the state. He determines what's useable and what's recycled and he get paid in computer equipment or a comission on higher ticket items that he acts as a salesperson for, the sale of which pays the payroll of the folks sorting the recycle stuff, unloading/loading trucks, etc. He also refurbishes some product that is then given to elderly people, schools, etc. It's not just computers, it's laser printers, server towers, etc. and the occassional mac.

My point....
He sees quite a few tractor trailer loads of equipment each week and in the current cycle of things, the P2-350 to P3-500 is the era of PC that is being replaced by businesses. I think this puts the average age of what's being replaced a little further out than 2-years. Add to that, because not everyone can afford even a Dell, an extension in life for all the PC's he refurbishes and resells at the computer shows.

And the occassional Mac....about 1 to every 10-15 trailer loads of pc's....not sure how that equates to 20 percent or even 3 percent
kona0197
Reply #31 Monday, April 19, 2004 3:24 AM
in a new athlon 3800


AMD makes them that high now? i thought 3200 was the top - I must be behind on news.
Shameless Designs
Reply #32 Monday, April 19, 2004 5:24 AM
the fact that mac users have 3% market share, they make up about 20% of the computers that are in use today When people use that 3% figure, they don't realize that that is in terms of computers sold that year. Obviously people buy PCs more often than macs because macs last longer. While the avg PC life would be about 2 years, the avg mac life is probably 5 years.


You're not serious, are you Macrobaye? You do realize that what you said there is mathematically impossible? Even if we granted that your underlying estimates of average life are correct, (which I do not), the maximum possible percentage of Macs to all computers in use, given your numbers for market share, would peak at barely over 7%. It doesn't matter whether you do the calculations on a Mac, a PC, or an abacus, it still comes out the same... and nowhere near 20%.
paxx
Reply #33 Monday, April 19, 2004 7:43 AM

Funny Macrobaye, but untrue. Macs are in reality 3% of the computers used, not just 3% of the computers sold. Just look at any web site stats. There are more Linux users (about 5%) out there than Mac users.

But what makes me giggle though is that now with OSX, Macs users are actually PC users on an Apple machine. OS X is closer to a PC OS that to any older Mac OS.  Well, normal since OS X is actually a new flavour of the *nix systems.

Anyway, it's hardly worth a fight anymore, because more and more now Mac and PC are getting extremely similar in the way it works, in its stability, in its safety, in its speed and reliability, and in it ease (not) of use. Both Windows and Mac are getting more and more complex, and both can be - and probably are - quite a headache to start learning when you're new to it.  Heck just last week I had to use this Mac at work, and I kept getting windows turning blue and flying in and out of the corner!! At some point I almost screamed "HOW DO I TURN THIS THING OFF?!" 

Anyway, Macs are probably faster indeed than the average PC. But spend the same $6,000 on a PC than you spend on a high end Mac, and you'll get the same high end performance.  At work, all the Mac artists have a $6,000 machine, while I have a modest $1,400 PC. Of course they're faster than me. BUt give me the same money to configure a PC with the parts I want, and man, I'll be cruising just as fast, if not faster.

macrobaye
Reply #34 Monday, April 19, 2004 7:49 AM
Actually, paxx, there was an article in the Register explaining what I just said, the facts, that about 20$ of computers in use and working today are Macs. That's the truth. People buy PCs more and more because they go obsolete after like 2 years, and Intel has people brainwashed into thinkinkg GHZ = power, so poeple want to buy new machines. Then they either throw away their old machines, or give them away. So paxx, right? YOU must be kidding me.

But spend the same $6,000 on a PC than you spend on a high end Mac,


You and I both know this is a rediculous figure. You find me a $6,000 mac and I'll find you a $200 porche. The avg mac price based on performance hovers around the same for the PC. You want a s***box Dell dor $400, go ahead, but it won't be anywhere near as good as a $1000 iMac, $1500 Powerbook, or $1700 Powermac. Nice try tho paxx
Jafo
Reply #35 Monday, April 19, 2004 8:40 AM
there was an article in the Register explaining what I just said, the facts, that about 20$ of computers in use and working today are Macs


Seriously, there was probably also an article somewhere extolling the tastiness of the moon's cheese.....it's hardly reality...
DesignCaddy
Reply #36 Monday, April 19, 2004 10:04 AM
#32 by


sorry konda i typo'd. meant 2800.. they're up to 3400 but its a 64 bit.
Orion
Reply #37 Monday, April 19, 2004 10:49 AM
I know it's true!!!! I read it on the intarweb!
macrobaye
Reply #38 Monday, April 19, 2004 11:13 AM
who cares, remember that it's a pc user who instigated this thread/arguement/conversation whatever you want to call it
NightTrainthedark
Reply #39 Monday, April 19, 2004 11:18 AM
This whole argument reminds me of the Iran/Iraq war.

No its spelled with an N, No its spelled with a Q.

DesignCaddy
Reply #40 Monday, April 19, 2004 11:20 AM
macro, your point being?
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