To Frogboy or Jafo:
Thursday, March 4, 2004 by juni | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Didn't one of you make a description or document where it is explained what a rip is? Is there a link to this?
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Lonnie the Skinner
Reply #42 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:23 PM
I'll simply say, I didn't copy the control pad, and buttons. I can show you the photoshop file with the filters added to the PLAIN circles and squares to make em look the way they do. But I doubt that would even convince you.
Reply #42 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:23 PM
| But what about the buttons and control pad? That was Juni's original work. How did you change it? |
I'll simply say, I didn't copy the control pad, and buttons. I can show you the photoshop file with the filters added to the PLAIN circles and squares to make em look the way they do. But I doubt that would even convince you.
plainsong
Reply #43 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:31 PM
Reply #43 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:31 PM
Yes, what does a Photoshop file prove... now I'm no expert skinner, but even I could do that. ... but a briefly awake Juni just laughed out loud at your proof...
Look, I guess you don't know who Jafo is, and you don't care about copyright infringements or the ethics of it all. You don't really seem to care that you ripped off a fellow skinner. So why are you here?
Look, I guess you don't know who Jafo is, and you don't care about copyright infringements or the ethics of it all. You don't really seem to care that you ripped off a fellow skinner. So why are you here?
Lonnie the Skinner
Reply #44 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:39 PM
But I do care about copyright infringments, and I'm only looking for all the permission that Juni got to grab the images from Microsoft, or even rip off the basic buttons, like calendar, and tasks, etc, with the 12X12 versions of them.. Funny, they look strangely like the buttons on my PPC.
So if you (or he..cause goodness knows he can't speak for himself!) could provide those emails, phone messages, whatever, that would be fantastic! I just want to know who I should contact!
Reply #44 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:39 PM
| and you don't care about copyright infringements or the ethics of it all. |
But I do care about copyright infringments, and I'm only looking for all the permission that Juni got to grab the images from Microsoft, or even rip off the basic buttons, like calendar, and tasks, etc, with the 12X12 versions of them.. Funny, they look strangely like the buttons on my PPC.
So if you (or he..cause goodness knows he can't speak for himself!) could provide those emails, phone messages, whatever, that would be fantastic! I just want to know who I should contact!
plainsong
Reply #45 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:53 PM
Reply #45 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:53 PM
Yes, he's sleeping and I'm up late wasting my time on this arguement. I'm sorry that you don't have someone in your life that you know well enough to know what they're going to say in a given situation.
Not everyone is in your timezone.
ps - no, they're not nearly as familiar to Microsoft's images are as your images are to Juni's. But if you have all the answers, why are you here?
Not everyone is in your timezone.
ps - no, they're not nearly as familiar to Microsoft's images are as your images are to Juni's. But if you have all the answers, why are you here?
Lonnie the Skinner
Reply #46 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:03 PM
Reply #46 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:03 PM
I am here because I like being around people that do the same thing as me.
Not nearly? So there is some familiarity, therefore he's just as in the wrong as I am. (As I've said for the second or third time now..it's too bad I have to repeat myself, but I guess dumb people find love too)
| ps - no, they're not nearly as familiar to Microsoft's images |
Not nearly? So there is some familiarity, therefore he's just as in the wrong as I am. (As I've said for the second or third time now..it's too bad I have to repeat myself, but I guess dumb people find love too)
Jafo
Reply #47 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:16 PM
pot.....kettle.....
Reply #47 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:16 PM
| I guess dumb people |
You freely admit deriving your skins from that of another skinner without consent.....perhaps you both use MS images, but only one of you is deriving that use from that of another's.
The use of Microsoft images can be argued in US law as 'fair use' [but not in Australia, actually] which makes it OK for both of you, but this whole 'fan-art' homage to juni's work stinks....particularly if juni does not wish to be feted this way....especially when not credited.
Lonnie the Skinner
Reply #48 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:31 PM
They weren't? Clearly by MSN's page, the clock is used as a calendar item...and ooooo...juni had the creativity to use that for tasks. Wow. Stand back! So this is my problem. If Juni finds a graphic on the web, no one else in the wide wide world can use that in the same manner? I mean obviously he got the flag/start button from somewhere..
A Copy, is a copy, is a copy.
Reply #48 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:31 PM
| perhaps you both use MS images, but only one of you is deriving that use from that of another's. |
They weren't? Clearly by MSN's page, the clock is used as a calendar item...and ooooo...juni had the creativity to use that for tasks. Wow. Stand back! So this is my problem. If Juni finds a graphic on the web, no one else in the wide wide world can use that in the same manner? I mean obviously he got the flag/start button from somewhere..
A Copy, is a copy, is a copy.
citats
Reply #50 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:42 PM
Reply #50 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:42 PM
what I see is Juni has taken the idea of MSN images and created original ones that are not pixel by pixel copies. On the other hand if I take Luni's and simply flip them horizontily in any photo program I don't need to be a copy right cop or a graphic artist to see that Luni has manipulated Juni's work. And to use a degrading name like Luni (paying homage to your skinning hero? yeah right that name is obviously down right insulting) Your so called original work after they pulled the first set of skins is simply manipulation. I agree with Jafo that ppxskins by their actions or lack there of will slowly fade away... this situation will also harm the program ppx (which I might add appeared to be promising at first look) by scaring off potential skinners. I or any other skinner that is aware of how a respected skinner was treated will never take part in the ppx community. The precident has been set. Michael good luck and I would try to disasociate myself from the skin site you deny having anything to do with. Remove the interlinking and promote healthy creativity 
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
amaloo
Reply #51 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:19 PM
Reply #51 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:19 PM
Ahhh come on now.....Does anyone but me think this has gotten out of hand?
yes Luni/Lonnie copied, reproduced, swipped, cobbed, whatever, Juni's skins.....Next?
yes Juni swipped the graphics himself....So what?....Next?
yes Plainsong has blown this all out of proportion and will never let it die (although if you do a search of her name on here you will find she felt differantly about it when Juni was in trouble for posting a screenshot of a skin he had duplicated....agian so what?
should anyone post a duplicate of anothers work without permission?...a resounding NO!
But....I have my suspicions that Juni was never going to give that permission anyway (although if yopu search his and plainsongs name, you will find how they felt about that same thing a year ago)....Why is that?
let's be honest and end this thing, it's giving me a headache
Luni/Lonnie thought he would copy the skins that people would like...
Juni doesn't want another program other than the one he supports using his skins....
The admin at ppxskins.com doesn't like being bullied any more than anyone else (and if you had read the campain Juni led at his site after a few hours of not hearing back from that admin, you'd be upset too)
anybody who skins or takes the time to create, cobble, mix, match, shake and/or bake graphics for the web appreciates it when someone ask to use their "stuff" first.....including me...
I think Luni/lonnie is done (what else can he/she do?) and i believe if Juni contact's the admin at ppxskins.com they could probably work something out....
by the way...I don't know who Luni/lonnie is or have the foggiest idea...
Juni....I liked you skins, but.....come on man...closing your site...complaining there, here, BH, E-mail was the way to go here pal....
sorry this is so long, i'm sure the admins here have bigger fish to fry that this, and oh yeah....i've loved this site for a long time
yes Luni/Lonnie copied, reproduced, swipped, cobbed, whatever, Juni's skins.....Next?
yes Juni swipped the graphics himself....So what?....Next?
yes Plainsong has blown this all out of proportion and will never let it die (although if you do a search of her name on here you will find she felt differantly about it when Juni was in trouble for posting a screenshot of a skin he had duplicated....agian so what?
should anyone post a duplicate of anothers work without permission?...a resounding NO!
But....I have my suspicions that Juni was never going to give that permission anyway (although if yopu search his and plainsongs name, you will find how they felt about that same thing a year ago)....Why is that?
let's be honest and end this thing, it's giving me a headache
Luni/Lonnie thought he would copy the skins that people would like...
Juni doesn't want another program other than the one he supports using his skins....
The admin at ppxskins.com doesn't like being bullied any more than anyone else (and if you had read the campain Juni led at his site after a few hours of not hearing back from that admin, you'd be upset too)
anybody who skins or takes the time to create, cobble, mix, match, shake and/or bake graphics for the web appreciates it when someone ask to use their "stuff" first.....including me...
I think Luni/lonnie is done (what else can he/she do?) and i believe if Juni contact's the admin at ppxskins.com they could probably work something out....
by the way...I don't know who Luni/lonnie is or have the foggiest idea...
Juni....I liked you skins, but.....come on man...closing your site...complaining there, here, BH, E-mail was the way to go here pal....
sorry this is so long, i'm sure the admins here have bigger fish to fry that this, and oh yeah....i've loved this site for a long time
Lonnie the Skinner
Reply #52 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:20 PM
But you're assuming that Juni freely distributes the graphic pieces in order to just flip it and away it goes. Look at the mypda one. There are separate backgrounds (pixelly because of the gif format) for each calendar, tasks, etc.. with the label my Agenda..etc tatooed on the bottom. It's not just a simple manipulation. Juni grabbed his images from an Introduction to MSN 9 website, as did I.
But I guess, since we are finally in agreement, there's NO WAY Juni would EVER steal graphics or M$ images, right? So it's ok. Therefore since I didn't use Juni's images it's ok too! Glad we got that straightened out!
You guys sure are great!
Reply #52 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:20 PM
| On the other hand if I take Luni's and simply flip them horizontily in any photo program I don't need to be a copy right cop or a graphic artist to see that Luni has manipulated Juni's work. |
But you're assuming that Juni freely distributes the graphic pieces in order to just flip it and away it goes. Look at the mypda one. There are separate backgrounds (pixelly because of the gif format) for each calendar, tasks, etc.. with the label my Agenda..etc tatooed on the bottom. It's not just a simple manipulation. Juni grabbed his images from an Introduction to MSN 9 website, as did I.
But I guess, since we are finally in agreement, there's NO WAY Juni would EVER steal graphics or M$ images, right? So it's ok. Therefore since I didn't use Juni's images it's ok too! Glad we got that straightened out!
You guys sure are great!
HG_Eliminator
Reply #53 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:37 PM
i believe the acutal reference was to "jafo" an admin here and a strong supporter of skinners rights. other than that if theres more about jafo i havent a clue ........ except hes a good tempered fellow with a heck of alot more patience than me .......
[Message Edited]
Reply #53 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:37 PM
| by the way...I don't know who Luni/lonnie is or have the foggiest idea... |
[Message Edited]
juni
Reply #57 Thursday, March 11, 2004 2:11 AM
Reply #57 Thursday, March 11, 2004 2:11 AM
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.."yes Plainsong has blown this all out of proportion and will never let it die (although if you do a search of her name on here you will find she felt differantly about it when Juni was in trouble for posting a screenshot of a skin he had duplicated....agian so what?"
-
I asked for permission to port a skin, didn't get it, didn't post it - that's how it goes.
"Juni doesn't want another program other than the one he supports using his skins...."
Exactly one person asked for permission to do a ppx port, I gave it, he posted it - no problem. (The skin is called
"Tranquility")
"The admin at ppxskins.com doesn't like being bullied any more than anyone else (and if you had read the campain Juni led at his site after a few hours of not hearing back from that admin, you'd be upset too)"
-
An administrator of a site is responsible for what is on his site.
And in conclusion a quote from the developer of PPX, Michael Pollard:
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"The comments shouldn't even have been there but fair enough. His site is gone, so I no longer have a business interest in this situation at all."
-
That pretty much sums it all up, doesn't it?
.."yes Plainsong has blown this all out of proportion and will never let it die (although if you do a search of her name on here you will find she felt differantly about it when Juni was in trouble for posting a screenshot of a skin he had duplicated....agian so what?"
-
I asked for permission to port a skin, didn't get it, didn't post it - that's how it goes.
"Juni doesn't want another program other than the one he supports using his skins...."
Exactly one person asked for permission to do a ppx port, I gave it, he posted it - no problem. (The skin is called
"Tranquility")
"The admin at ppxskins.com doesn't like being bullied any more than anyone else (and if you had read the campain Juni led at his site after a few hours of not hearing back from that admin, you'd be upset too)"
-
An administrator of a site is responsible for what is on his site.
And in conclusion a quote from the developer of PPX, Michael Pollard:
-
"The comments shouldn't even have been there but fair enough. His site is gone, so I no longer have a business interest in this situation at all."
-
That pretty much sums it all up, doesn't it?
amaloo
Reply #59 Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:15 AM
Reply #59 Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:15 AM
Well I'm glad you are finally seeing the light and admiting it Juni, hopefully Luni/Lonnie will step up too.....
I still don't understand the reference to PPX Michael Pollard?...or are you saying you should never have mentioned or let people bash PPX over this at your site.....that is what he's refering to in your quote, right?
If I had a program I was developing for windows XP stolen by some other developer, I wouldn't bash or blame microsoft because it runs on their OS.....never made any sense to me.....snoopsoft links directly to your site, does that mean they are responsible for your actions too?....that never made sense to me either....
Anyway....Good luck Juni....make some more nice skins for everyone...and if you don't reopen your site, i don't think you could find a better place to showcase them than here.
I still don't understand the reference to PPX Michael Pollard?...or are you saying you should never have mentioned or let people bash PPX over this at your site.....that is what he's refering to in your quote, right?
If I had a program I was developing for windows XP stolen by some other developer, I wouldn't bash or blame microsoft because it runs on their OS.....never made any sense to me.....snoopsoft links directly to your site, does that mean they are responsible for your actions too?....that never made sense to me either....
Anyway....Good luck Juni....make some more nice skins for everyone...and if you don't reopen your site, i don't think you could find a better place to showcase them than here.
Michael pollard
Reply #60 Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:34 AM
Reply #60 Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:34 AM
"Your so called original work after they pulled the first set of skins is simply manipulation. I agree with Jafo that ppxskins by their actions or lack there of will slowly fade away... this situation will also harm the program ppx (which I might add appeared to be promising at first look) by scaring off potential skinners. I or any other skinner that is aware of how a respected skinner was treated will never take part in the ppx community. The precident has been set. Michael good luck and I would try to disasociate myself from the skin site you deny having anything to do with. Remove the interlinking and promote healthy creativity"
I just need to disassociate from all skinners. I personally see to it that every image is either purchased or created from scratch in the PPX default skins or any that I personally release on the PPX3k.com site. That is painstaking work but when someone else can claim the same about all skins they release, then we can talk about ethics, honor and integrity.
I saw PPX mentioned and Lonnie reared his ugly head, this is the reason I am here once again. Skinners should be no more scared to skin for PPX as they are for any other application, the same caveats apply in all of them. This is an ignorant argument and I am tired of it being used to cause panic to suggest to people they shouldn't skin for PPX. Hogwash. Actually they would have more freedom, because it seems to me that PPXSkins.com isn't a hypocrit. Last time I checked hypocrits were a bad thing.
All of you are in the exact same boat as Lonnie. Neither is more right or wrong then the other. The only thing you can do is remove attention from Lonnie but all anyone has done is fall into his trap once again.
I just need to disassociate from all skinners. I personally see to it that every image is either purchased or created from scratch in the PPX default skins or any that I personally release on the PPX3k.com site. That is painstaking work but when someone else can claim the same about all skins they release, then we can talk about ethics, honor and integrity.
I saw PPX mentioned and Lonnie reared his ugly head, this is the reason I am here once again. Skinners should be no more scared to skin for PPX as they are for any other application, the same caveats apply in all of them. This is an ignorant argument and I am tired of it being used to cause panic to suggest to people they shouldn't skin for PPX. Hogwash. Actually they would have more freedom, because it seems to me that PPXSkins.com isn't a hypocrit. Last time I checked hypocrits were a bad thing.
All of you are in the exact same boat as Lonnie. Neither is more right or wrong then the other. The only thing you can do is remove attention from Lonnie but all anyone has done is fall into his trap once again.
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Reply #41 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:16 PM
What you did was different Lonnie. Yes, like Juni you took the XP look. But what about the buttons and control pad? That was Juni's original work. How did you change it? How did you add anything better? And did you ask for his permission before putting your name on it and uploading it? Copying someone's work and then claiming it as your own isn't being a very good fan.