To Frogboy or Jafo:
Thursday, March 4, 2004 by juni | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Didn't one of you make a description or document where it is explained what a rip is? Is there a link to this?
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plainsong
Reply #22 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 2:30 PM
Reply #22 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 2:30 PM
So whatever's said, you just twist it around to wear it matches your own ends. You just want to fight. You have to be the winner, even if there's no winning this one. Yes, I devalued Juni's skins...sure, right. I'm sorry if you're not gonna convince me that PPX and PPXskins are in no way related. It's linked from your site, it has skins for your program, you can in fact remove skins from it yourself. No intellectual debate you bring here is going to convince me that you're right. This hasn't been handled ethically and no empty words will change that. End of debate, now please either remove the skins or leave us alone.
Michael pollard
Reply #23 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 2:55 PM
Reply #23 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 2:55 PM
"No intellectual debate you bring here is going to convince me that you're right."
I didn't expect otherwise. This has always been irrational and emotional. It isn't about winning anything, it is about compromise. For me to win and me alone that would mean PPXSkins.com removes all skins that Juni has a problem with and Juni s off the face of the earth but I am realistic and I am willing to compromise.
I can say all the same things, live with the skins being there or leave me alone. After all, I am just here to try to find a resolve to a thread that already exists. Juni himself made me get involved in this. My relationship to PPXSkins.com would be akin to Juni's relationship to Snoopsoft, with the difference being I nor PPXSkins.com have dragged them into this, it would be silly and irrational.
I didn't expect otherwise. This has always been irrational and emotional. It isn't about winning anything, it is about compromise. For me to win and me alone that would mean PPXSkins.com removes all skins that Juni has a problem with and Juni s off the face of the earth but I am realistic and I am willing to compromise.
I can say all the same things, live with the skins being there or leave me alone. After all, I am just here to try to find a resolve to a thread that already exists. Juni himself made me get involved in this. My relationship to PPXSkins.com would be akin to Juni's relationship to Snoopsoft, with the difference being I nor PPXSkins.com have dragged them into this, it would be silly and irrational.
plainsong
Reply #24 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:02 PM
Reply #24 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:02 PM
We have left you alone. In fact, we never bothered you at all, keeping all comments to Juni's site. Juni contacted you once because he thought it was your site, and got abuse in return. That was by email. Whatever has been said on Brighthand or PPCthoughts has been said by others. They have rights to their opinions. Now I say it again, we have left you alone, now leave us alone. Please.
juni
Reply #25 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:17 PM
Reply #25 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:17 PM
Oh my god, you are relentless. What more do you want? What is your venue here? By your own claims you are not affiliated with ppxskins.com in any way so why do you keep defending them? Can't you just leave me alone?
Michael pollard
Reply #26 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:24 PM
Reply #26 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:24 PM
"We have left you alone. In fact, we never bothered you at all, keeping all comments to Juni's site."
The comments shouldn't even have been there but fair enough. His site is gone, so I no longer have a business interest in this situation at all.
Good luck and I hope you find an amicable solution to your problems.
The comments shouldn't even have been there but fair enough. His site is gone, so I no longer have a business interest in this situation at all.
Good luck and I hope you find an amicable solution to your problems.
Michael pollard
Reply #27 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:26 PM
Reply #27 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:26 PM
I defended them, Juni, because as you know, PPX3k and PPXSkins was losely interchanged on many comments that dealt with this situation but if that is no longer the case....good luck.
Lonnie the Skinner
Reply #28 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:27 PM
Reply #28 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:27 PM
Friends, so much bickering over so little pixels!!
When I set out to create my UIs, I was thinking about what if Juni came up with a PPX UI based on his dashboard skins...and trying to imagine what it would look like-making it look as official and smooth as possible. That's it!
When I set out to create my UIs, I was thinking about what if Juni came up with a PPX UI based on his dashboard skins...and trying to imagine what it would look like-making it look as official and smooth as possible. That's it!
plainsong
Reply #29 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:59 PM
Reply #29 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:59 PM
Hmm, and that Control panel certainly was an original idea. Where did you get the idea for the buttons as well? Uncannily like Juni.
Ripping = Copying or modifying another artists work and redistributing without permission.
All you had to do was ask!
Ripping = Copying or modifying another artists work and redistributing without permission.
All you had to do was ask!
plainsong
Reply #30 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:04 PM
Reply #30 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:04 PM
Hmm so far you've gotten to ChromePDA, and Control pad, and Control pad II. Any other skins you'd care to borrow heavily from and repost in your name lonnie? >
CerebroJD
Reply #31 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:06 PM
Reply #31 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:06 PM
Guys, there is no need to deal with this on this messageboard. Email would be much better, and it wouldnt make you guys look so bad.
I hereby declare this thread closed. (mind you, I cant actually close it, but you shouldnt do this here)
[Message Edited]
I hereby declare this thread closed. (mind you, I cant actually close it, but you shouldnt do this here)
[Message Edited]
plainsong
Reply #33 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:10 PM
Reply #33 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:10 PM
Thanks, we didn't ask for these people to follow us here.
MadPyro
Reply #34 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:18 PM
Reply #34 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:18 PM
its a public message board man, if you dont want us here, take your issues elsewhere. 
HG_Eliminator
Reply #35 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:21 PM
Reply #35 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:21 PM
she was refering to lonnie and michael... not those of us who were here before this
Jafo
Reply #38 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:13 PM
Reply #38 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:13 PM
| #28 by Citizen Lonnie the Skinner - 3/10/2004 4:27:20 PM Friends, so much bickering over so little pixels!! When I set out to create my UIs, I was thinking about what if Juni came up with a PPX UI based on his dashboard skins...and trying to imagine what it would look like-making it look as official and smooth as possible. That's it! |
So....the idea was to make a 'juni - styled' skin......when the only way to do that would be to 'borrow' from juni's designs/images.
In my book that makes it 'porting'....eg my Tiggz' GT2 port to WinAMP of his WB skin.
Piss-easy to do, but unethical to distribute without permission because it would be in violation of his [Tiggz] artist's copyright, which is inherent with all works 'published' [publicly distributed].
Sure, if juni uses images originating from the OS creator that may be one 'issue', but last time I checked, two wrongs do not make a right. It is assumed that juni brought some originality/creativity and therefore ownership rights to the skin creation, and it is those/that specifically that still must be protected.
Copyright issues often have grey areas, but by Lonnie the Skinner's own admission he has used juni's work or ideas....and that is called ripping.
For a skinning or graphic site to be universally accepted/respected with the online community it must have an acceptable standard of respect and consideration for artists' rights. Failure to do so means a short history/future for the site as people are less than impressed....
plainsong
Reply #39 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:40 PM
Reply #39 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:40 PM
Yeah guys, I was referring to our newest members Lonnie and Michael. 
And Jafo the Wise has spoken.... I hope Juni didn't swamp you with too much late night reading material. At least it's entertaining. He's sleeping ATM, but he'll be joining us when he wakes up.
Thank you for all your support.
Or is it Wize? I was never good at spelling.
Thanks guys, maybe this whole ordeal will never be solved, but it's nice to be back in a crowd that understands.
And Jafo the Wise has spoken.... I hope Juni didn't swamp you with too much late night reading material. At least it's entertaining. He's sleeping ATM, but he'll be joining us when he wakes up.
Thank you for all your support.Or is it Wize? I was never good at spelling.
Thanks guys, maybe this whole ordeal will never be solved, but it's nice to be back in a crowd that understands.
Lonnie the Skinner
Reply #40 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:42 PM
Yes. Because it was FAN ART of juni's work I 'borrowed' from juni. What would be the point of trying to pay homage to him if it looked nothing like it. Well, I could just paste his head on a dog..but then that wouldn't be right..but you'd get the point! BUT what stands for argument here is that 'I' went to the bloody effort of "creating" each and every image in MY UIs. There is not one image stolen from Juni's work, I only went and found his sources where he stole from first.
So you turn a blind eye when one person does it, but when another finds the exact same sources..ooooo..that's naughty. Come on, we're both in the wrong and you know it.
Last time I checked, the people that create the images for MSN, Microsoft, whatever OS, etc.. are still artists, even if they're saddle with the weight of corporation. So if Juni does "fan art" of what he'd like to see if Microsoft did a myPDA skin, then he is just as wrong as when I do a UI containing similar images (all captured, modified and stolen, JUST like juni). What I'm REALLY getting at, is that it takes no creativity nor inspiration to rip off your icons, backgrounds, whatever from Microsoft or anything else on the net, clipart, etc. And if you therefore agree to that, then obviously, the creativity is in the layout of the skin. Correct?
So..therefore, my mypad layout (which differs from Juni's) is a creatively different idea from his. Right?
It's funny when you read an old post such as this:
https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=159871&u=1 . I really do wonder why we can't get away from this whole anality.
Reply #40 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:42 PM
| So....the idea was to make a 'juni - styled' skin......when the only way to do that would be to 'borrow' from juni's designs/images. |
Yes. Because it was FAN ART of juni's work I 'borrowed' from juni. What would be the point of trying to pay homage to him if it looked nothing like it. Well, I could just paste his head on a dog..but then that wouldn't be right..but you'd get the point! BUT what stands for argument here is that 'I' went to the bloody effort of "creating" each and every image in MY UIs. There is not one image stolen from Juni's work, I only went and found his sources where he stole from first.
| Sure, if juni uses images originating from the OS creator that may be one 'issue', but last time I checked, two wrongs do not make a right. |
So you turn a blind eye when one person does it, but when another finds the exact same sources..ooooo..that's naughty. Come on, we're both in the wrong and you know it.
| For a skinning or graphic site to be universally accepted/respected with the online community it must have an acceptable standard of respect and consideration for artists' rights. |
Last time I checked, the people that create the images for MSN, Microsoft, whatever OS, etc.. are still artists, even if they're saddle with the weight of corporation. So if Juni does "fan art" of what he'd like to see if Microsoft did a myPDA skin, then he is just as wrong as when I do a UI containing similar images (all captured, modified and stolen, JUST like juni). What I'm REALLY getting at, is that it takes no creativity nor inspiration to rip off your icons, backgrounds, whatever from Microsoft or anything else on the net, clipart, etc. And if you therefore agree to that, then obviously, the creativity is in the layout of the skin. Correct?
So..therefore, my mypad layout (which differs from Juni's) is a creatively different idea from his. Right?
It's funny when you read an old post such as this:
https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?BID=WC&id=159871&u=1 . I really do wonder why we can't get away from this whole anality.
| It's just that - I dunno - are we getting perhaps a bit too anal with this whole permission thing? |
| I don't want to attract flames, I'm just - ya know - thinking aloud. Does anyone long for the old days when ports of skins were ok and all good? |
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Reply #21 Wednesday, March 10, 2004 2:02 PM
No one ever asked how I was able to remove the one UI. Frankly it was no one's business but if you must know I pitched a bitch. I got down irrate about it and made threats but I can't do that every time. That was a one shot deal.
"In what dreamworld are you in, to think that there is an understanding that any graphics posted on the web is ok to copy and redistribute without the author's permission."
This is what I mean by rocking the boat. You just devalued any skin that Juni has done where he found images on the web. Don't you see, any argument leads to the same path and outcome. So compromises have to be made or else everyone suffers.