uggg 2 (warning: rant)
Monday, February 9, 2004 by kongit | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
My other thread "uggg" today was meant as a comment on the excessive number of "stupid" threads. "Stupid" as in it has been answered and is on the front page, usually sticky. If you have noticed (most likely you didn't) I haven't been here much in the last few days because I have not enjoyed being here. Its not just the unnecessary threads but the general attitude towards them. You don't need to post. And you don't need to tell the poster in an unkind manner that their question has been answered. In fact, that unkind attitude is what really turns me off. If you think that the poster feels that they don't need to read the other threads, just don't answer the post or just post a link to a thread which answers the question in the best manner. Alternatively if you think that the poster doesn't understand the nature of the messageboard, nicely help them understand it and answer their question.
No matter what type a thread a person starts, an unfriendly manner is never suitable unless that post personally offends you. I have seen few things that should be considered offensive in many threads in which the topic gradually degrades to an unsuitable level. On my "uggg" thread this was an example and a test on the reaction of the people posting. However it was closed (one of the things I was waiting on... thank you jafo for your speedy response). But in that short time there was one post (not to point fingers) that particularly upset me, and that one post was all it took to upset me. For some reason it was inferred from
that
I don't see how he got that from what I posted and it reflects an attitude that I find very distasteful. I think comments like this are far more degrading to the board then the meaningless threads.
If a person posts a stupid thread and obviously isn't intentionally flaming somebody don't flame the poster. My meaningless post was in no way offensive, except maybe to our Gorilla kin (I am not sure what ugggg translates to in Gorilla talk). Instead let's help these posters with a positive attitude so they know the ways of the board and will want to come back. Being friendly is necessary. If you don't have something nice to say then don't say it.
To sum it up: Don't start stupid threads and only post if you have something nice or constructive to say.
Just My Opinion.
ugggg
No matter what type a thread a person starts, an unfriendly manner is never suitable unless that post personally offends you. I have seen few things that should be considered offensive in many threads in which the topic gradually degrades to an unsuitable level. On my "uggg" thread this was an example and a test on the reaction of the people posting. However it was closed (one of the things I was waiting on... thank you jafo for your speedy response). But in that short time there was one post (not to point fingers) that particularly upset me, and that one post was all it took to upset me. For some reason it was inferred from
ugggg  (its better than most posts) |
that
| ????.... Whats that supposed to mean? What are you trying to say, Travis, that you are the only one who can post? It is comments like yours that turns this message board into something I try to avoid now. Thank-you for reminding me not to come back in here. |
I don't see how he got that from what I posted and it reflects an attitude that I find very distasteful. I think comments like this are far more degrading to the board then the meaningless threads.
If a person posts a stupid thread and obviously isn't intentionally flaming somebody don't flame the poster. My meaningless post was in no way offensive, except maybe to our Gorilla kin (I am not sure what ugggg translates to in Gorilla talk). Instead let's help these posters with a positive attitude so they know the ways of the board and will want to come back. Being friendly is necessary. If you don't have something nice to say then don't say it.
To sum it up: Don't start stupid threads and only post if you have something nice or constructive to say.
Just My Opinion.
ugggg
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SelfExiled
Reply #3 Monday, February 9, 2004 4:06 PM
Reply #3 Monday, February 9, 2004 4:06 PM
Maybe it would have been better for you to have said all of this in your first post. Instead of just saying "ugg" witout anything information or explanation. It made it seem like a spam post on the messageboard, worse than any others that you mentioned. Your post definitely elicited to a flame session, as does this one. Think about your posts too. No one can read your mind.
carolelee
Reply #5 Monday, February 9, 2004 4:15 PM
Reply #5 Monday, February 9, 2004 4:15 PM
I agree what you are saying Travis(nobody likes getting flamed)but when you said ugg(on the other thread)I wasn't sure what you were saying 
I thought you were
I thought you were
Essencay
Reply #6 Monday, February 9, 2004 4:40 PM
Reply #6 Monday, February 9, 2004 4:40 PM
Start of Rant....
In my browser window, in general discussion, there are currently 42 threads showing. Of those, about half should probably be in either the help or skinning discussion, leaving room on the front page of the general discussion for well, general things not related directly to Stardock Apps, WinCustomize or Skinning. Yeah the remaining threads are sometimes silly or ridiculous or flamefests, but if no one had any interest in those threads they'd fall off the first page just like all uninteresting threads.
I think what got a lot of the "regulars" here all worked up yesterday was the ridiculous number of posts from freeloaders, er...excuse me...non-paying customers (Politically Correct
) complaining, asking nicely, whining, etc. about why they couldn't download anything. I mean you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that if there are already about 10-12 threads about a subject, you might want to read one, just one, didn't have to read them all, maybe even post their problem if they felt they needed to be heard, in one of the existing threads. What a concept.
I understand your frustration Travis, hence my parody yesterday about a pair of shoes. I think anyone who has been around here long enough got the point I was making more readily with that thread than just saying "uggg"
....End of Rant
In my browser window, in general discussion, there are currently 42 threads showing. Of those, about half should probably be in either the help or skinning discussion, leaving room on the front page of the general discussion for well, general things not related directly to Stardock Apps, WinCustomize or Skinning. Yeah the remaining threads are sometimes silly or ridiculous or flamefests, but if no one had any interest in those threads they'd fall off the first page just like all uninteresting threads.
I think what got a lot of the "regulars" here all worked up yesterday was the ridiculous number of posts from freeloaders, er...excuse me...non-paying customers (Politically Correct
) complaining, asking nicely, whining, etc. about why they couldn't download anything. I mean you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that if there are already about 10-12 threads about a subject, you might want to read one, just one, didn't have to read them all, maybe even post their problem if they felt they needed to be heard, in one of the existing threads. What a concept.I understand your frustration Travis, hence my parody yesterday about a pair of shoes. I think anyone who has been around here long enough got the point I was making more readily with that thread than just saying "uggg"
....End of Rant
Jafo
Reply #8 Monday, February 9, 2004 5:15 PM
Reply #8 Monday, February 9, 2004 5:15 PM
Travis....guess who is missing the point?
Rather than a second 'ugg' thread, rant or not, thanking me for closing the first, what about the fact those legitimate threads are now twice displaced.
MB protocol and manners is not merely a reluctance to flame, but also a consideration for all those other people with a need for valid input.
The closing of the thread was not solely for your benefit but for that of all ....
Again, [to all] think before posting......generally the grief is lessened...
kongit
Reply #10 Monday, February 9, 2004 5:26 PM
Reply #10 Monday, February 9, 2004 5:26 PM
As I stated above that thread was for a purpose. Its purpose was served. I agree that it did knock off a thread, and so did this. I had intended to place what I wrote above in it, but as it was locked before I could (I do have a life and had stuff to do) I didn't. 
and I actually didn't mean for you to lock it so quick, but the quickness of locking it was a good example of your moderating abilities
and I actually didn't mean for you to lock it so quick, but the quickness of locking it was a good example of your moderating abilities
JerryHat
Reply #11 Monday, February 9, 2004 7:10 PM
Reply #11 Monday, February 9, 2004 7:10 PM
From a relative newcomer to these boards I can say that it'd be useful if the different sections had clearly defined descriptions. To me, as a recent buyer of Object Desktop and thereby the SDC, I'd wrongly assumed that this message board was for Stardock products. Longtime readers and posters no doubt find that foolish but there's no clear distinction between Stardock and WinCustomise to a new user's eyes.
What is that user to make of three sections labelled WC-General, WC-Help and WC-Skinning? Is General for questions about WC (or Stardock) that don't come under the other sections? Is Help for help with WC the site, WC the files or Stardock products? Skinning? What's that? Something to do with Windowblinds, or Object Desktop.. or.. or...
You get the idea I'm sure.
Descriptions would be very handy - but I still think that the various sections need a better and more intuitive layout.
regards, Jerry
PS "I can't download, why?" is a relevant question, especially with the flakiness of the servers and the 50MB limit that I for one had no idea existed. You might hear it again and again, but the new user comes here assuming it's a support board with a question they need answering. Being discourteous to that new user (even if you think he may be a bit of a leech) is no way to ever turn them into a customer.
What is that user to make of three sections labelled WC-General, WC-Help and WC-Skinning? Is General for questions about WC (or Stardock) that don't come under the other sections? Is Help for help with WC the site, WC the files or Stardock products? Skinning? What's that? Something to do with Windowblinds, or Object Desktop.. or.. or...
You get the idea I'm sure.
Descriptions would be very handy - but I still think that the various sections need a better and more intuitive layout.
regards, Jerry
PS "I can't download, why?" is a relevant question, especially with the flakiness of the servers and the 50MB limit that I for one had no idea existed. You might hear it again and again, but the new user comes here assuming it's a support board with a question they need answering. Being discourteous to that new user (even if you think he may be a bit of a leech) is no way to ever turn them into a customer.
HG_Eliminator
Reply #12 Monday, February 9, 2004 7:14 PM
very well said
Reply #12 Monday, February 9, 2004 7:14 PM
| Being discourteous to that new user (even if you think he may be a bit of a leech) is no way to ever turn them into a customer. |
very well said
Jafo
Reply #13 Monday, February 9, 2004 7:25 PM
Reply #13 Monday, February 9, 2004 7:25 PM
| Being discourteous to that new user (even if you think he may be a bit of a leech) is no way to ever turn them into a customer. |
Generally those who are 'discourteous' have no connection with the site Owners [Stardock] other than being skinners of their product/s...and this 'discourtesy' is from being constantly jaded and/or peeved by complainants demanding something for nothing whilst those who berate are financially supporting those referred to as leeches.
If no-one could access anything at all without FIRST contributing then this anomaly would not arise.
I, too, hate to see my financial contribution/s being used by casual visitors to siphon bandwidth without recompense, but it's a necessary 'evil' of viability.
There's always two sides to what is perceived as discourtesy...
Fuzzy Logic
Reply #14 Monday, February 9, 2004 7:37 PM
Reply #14 Monday, February 9, 2004 7:37 PM
Creating a dozen threads asking the same question which has already been answered simply because you couldn't be bothered to read, is also discourteous. Both to the other users whose threads are pushed down the list, and the person who took time to answer the original question.
sig101
Reply #15 Monday, February 9, 2004 9:02 PM
Reply #15 Monday, February 9, 2004 9:02 PM
Maybe because I'm a reader I generally read board/forum threads (especially if I'm in a new place) before posting. As for what information is or is not available to the new or casual user, I just looked at the WC Help board and there's a sticky thread called something like "Welcome to the WC Help Board" and the thread explains what the messageboard is for. Similarly the skinning messageboard has a sticky thread that serves as an intro to that board. This of course is the general discussion board whose nature apparently is not self-evident in contrast to the other two messageboards. It does have a FAQ sticky that is frequently overlooked (and which probably could use some updating/expansion but as it was virtually a volunteer effort one can't be too picky). Also, for a time there was a sticky thread here by KarmaGirl (IIRC) that clarified that these discussion boards are not the venue for contacting Stardock support; user to user discussions do occur on the boards and the SD newsgroups but those who seek support from Stardock should email Stardock directly. I don't see that sticky up now here so I guess it's been unstickied. (People didn't seem to pay much attention to it anyway.)
But at least as far as I know it's considered general "nettiquette" at just about any messageboard, forum or newsgroup for users to read pre-existing threads to see what the place is about, discern what conduct is or is not generally appropriate and that posters should generally join current discussions in topically relevant threads already in progress rather than starting up a new thread for the exact same question or topic. Epecially if there are already several active threads on the same issue on the board. At one time I counted over 20 threads about bootskin questions/problems here at one time (I stopped counting once it went over 20+); people didn't look at the existing active bootskins threads and just started another one regardless.
Perhaps general ettiquette guidelines should be posted and users must affirmatively indicate that they have read and understood them prior to being allowed to view and post on the messageboard. One would think that such an approach would not be necessary for people who are assumed to have the capacity to read and reason. (With so many international visitors on occasion there are communication problems when English is not the first language but most often that is not the issue.) But there is more info that should perhaps be more prominent, like the 50 MG cap and some others areas. Still, even with stickies, active threads, info on the site's main page, some people do not read the info already available.
And the vast majority of posters here have no affiliation with Stardock or with WC other than members/users/customers. Generally, although not always, people will go out of their way to help someone who is polite and friendly.
But at least as far as I know it's considered general "nettiquette" at just about any messageboard, forum or newsgroup for users to read pre-existing threads to see what the place is about, discern what conduct is or is not generally appropriate and that posters should generally join current discussions in topically relevant threads already in progress rather than starting up a new thread for the exact same question or topic. Epecially if there are already several active threads on the same issue on the board. At one time I counted over 20 threads about bootskin questions/problems here at one time (I stopped counting once it went over 20+); people didn't look at the existing active bootskins threads and just started another one regardless.
Perhaps general ettiquette guidelines should be posted and users must affirmatively indicate that they have read and understood them prior to being allowed to view and post on the messageboard. One would think that such an approach would not be necessary for people who are assumed to have the capacity to read and reason. (With so many international visitors on occasion there are communication problems when English is not the first language but most often that is not the issue.) But there is more info that should perhaps be more prominent, like the 50 MG cap and some others areas. Still, even with stickies, active threads, info on the site's main page, some people do not read the info already available.
And the vast majority of posters here have no affiliation with Stardock or with WC other than members/users/customers. Generally, although not always, people will go out of their way to help someone who is polite and friendly.
BoXXi
Reply #16 Monday, February 9, 2004 9:17 PM
Reply #16 Monday, February 9, 2004 9:17 PM
JerryHat: as one who IS affiliated with WinCustomze, (I am a moderator here) I would like you to know that we appreciate the fact that you bought Object Desktop, it's people like you that keep this site afloat. And, in the spirit of courtesy, I would like you to know that if you have any questions about Stardock products, or the WinCustomize site, you can e-mail me and I will do my best to help out. [email protected] 
bakerstreet
Reply #17 Monday, February 9, 2004 9:27 PM
Reply #17 Monday, February 9, 2004 9:27 PM
Me and Doreen used to fight about off-topic posts. Now it is generally termed 'hijacking' on a single discussion, but numerous idiotic posts on a messageboard is no different, just on a larger scale.
Don't think your posts will do anything about it. The kind of people you are addressing really don't read messageboards, they just post on them. You really have to see the irony, though, that you devoted two posts to this kind of thing, bumping two legitimate threads off the bottom.
I don't see a lot of difference between stupid people posting, and regulars discussing stupid people's posts.
Don't think your posts will do anything about it. The kind of people you are addressing really don't read messageboards, they just post on them. You really have to see the irony, though, that you devoted two posts to this kind of thing, bumping two legitimate threads off the bottom.
I don't see a lot of difference between stupid people posting, and regulars discussing stupid people's posts.
kongit
Reply #18 Monday, February 9, 2004 9:30 PM
Reply #18 Monday, February 9, 2004 9:30 PM
hmm I think Bakerstreet has hit a point. I shall stop discussing the stupid posts. very good point Bakerstreet. My little rant was/is no better than the stupid posts themselves.
Jafo
Reply #19 Monday, February 9, 2004 10:06 PM
Reply #19 Monday, February 9, 2004 10:06 PM
Travis...I told you that in both threads, though you seem to have missed their point twice....
Now thrice....
Chris TH
Reply #20 Monday, February 9, 2004 10:10 PM
IME, the best place for OD tech support discussion is the Stardock newsgroups on news.stardock.com.
There, the groups are all segregated according to product (as well as other topics).
HTH
Reply #20 Monday, February 9, 2004 10:10 PM
| #11 by JerryHat - 2/9/2004 7:10:37 PM From a relative newcomer to these boards I can say that it'd be useful if the different sections had clearly defined descriptions. To me, as a recent buyer of Object Desktop and thereby the SDC, I'd wrongly assumed that this message board was for Stardock products |
IME, the best place for OD tech support discussion is the Stardock newsgroups on news.stardock.com.
There, the groups are all segregated according to product (as well as other topics).
HTH
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Reply #1 Monday, February 9, 2004 3:31 PM