The Freedom Tower...
Friday, December 19, 2003 by goodmorphing | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3757111/
The tower will be "not only beautiful but an opportunity" to make statement about the environment, Childs told "Today".
The cable suspension structure would create an open area above the building’s 70 floors of office space, and house the wind turbines, which could provide 20 percent of the building’s energy.
I think I like it!
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goodmorphing
Reply #4 Friday, December 19, 2003 5:08 PM
Reply #4 Friday, December 19, 2003 5:08 PM
IMO ... one of the things we have learned is that cowering in holes isn't that good of an idea either. Nor would I be that proud of taking lessons from madmen. I intend to continue living my life much as I ever have, risks and all. And if I ever die in some terrorist attack, it will be the end of an independent, fully lived life and not one lived on my knees in fear. I have done enough of that. I will admire aspiration and innovation and culture and beauty and tradition and democracy. This building incorporates a design that uses environmentally generated power, which is not only good for the environment but a trend which takes us away from dangerous dependences and that is something I wholeheartedly applaud. It has also makes use of many safety features that were either ignored or not available before. It is a constructive statement of remembrance and support and not something destructive and I also applaud that.
...er goodmorphing steps down from soapbox.
carry on
[Message Edited]
...er goodmorphing steps down from soapbox.
carry on
[Message Edited]
White_Moth
Reply #6 Friday, December 19, 2003 5:25 PM
Reply #6 Friday, December 19, 2003 5:25 PM
I am simply sayimg:
"When someone builds/paints a bullseye, someone else will always aim at the heart of it, and hit it."
..and madmen are the ones who cower in holes begging for their lives even though they slaughtered thousands of others who had the strength and conviction to die with dignity....as we have seen and learned.
I am reminded of what became of such prideful structures as The Tower of Babel and The Stone Walls of Jerusalem.
"When someone builds/paints a bullseye, someone else will always aim at the heart of it, and hit it."
..and madmen are the ones who cower in holes begging for their lives even though they slaughtered thousands of others who had the strength and conviction to die with dignity....as we have seen and learned.
I am reminded of what became of such prideful structures as The Tower of Babel and The Stone Walls of Jerusalem.
grayhaze
Reply #8 Friday, December 19, 2003 5:40 PM
Reply #8 Friday, December 19, 2003 5:40 PM
I don't wish to further stir up the hornet's nest, but I tend to agree with White_Moth. Terrorists chose the WTC as their target due to it's symbolizing the American 'ego', for want of a better word, and to simply build a bigger (and potentially more fragile) structure in its place is just downright stupidity.
I think President Bush has already demonstrated just how little tolerance America has for terrorists, although perhaps using a method akin to swatting a fly with a brick wall, so a new structure should be more about remembering those we lost than being a sign of defiance. I think something small and peaceful would have been more respectful and less of a challenge to terrorists to have another go.
I know I'll get flamed to death for my opinions, but there ya go.
I think President Bush has already demonstrated just how little tolerance America has for terrorists, although perhaps using a method akin to swatting a fly with a brick wall, so a new structure should be more about remembering those we lost than being a sign of defiance. I think something small and peaceful would have been more respectful and less of a challenge to terrorists to have another go.
I know I'll get flamed to death for my opinions, but there ya go.
Aleatoric
Reply #9 Friday, December 19, 2003 5:47 PM
Reply #9 Friday, December 19, 2003 5:47 PM
The thing is, even though the original towers provided some representation of what it symbolized, if they hadn't existed, the terrorists would simply have targeted something else.
I, for one, can think of no better memorial than one that still represents what the originals stood for, and that also symbolically gives 'the finger' to those who want us to cower in a hole.
I, for one, can think of no better memorial than one that still represents what the originals stood for, and that also symbolically gives 'the finger' to those who want us to cower in a hole.
grayhaze
Reply #10 Friday, December 19, 2003 5:53 PM
Reply #10 Friday, December 19, 2003 5:53 PM
The larger the target, the more casualties in the event of an attack. I'm sure that there won't ever be another attack on the scale of the WTC, but simple logic dictates that another solution should be found.
If I learnt one thing in kindergarten, it's that if you build a tower of blocks high enough some kid will come along and knock it down. If you then rebuild the tower with a few more blocks, the mean kid will only be more likely to try again. If, on the other hand, you shrug your shoulders and go off to play with something else that kid will go elsewhere to get his kicks.
Did I just make a kindergarten analogy? It really has been a long week...
If I learnt one thing in kindergarten, it's that if you build a tower of blocks high enough some kid will come along and knock it down. If you then rebuild the tower with a few more blocks, the mean kid will only be more likely to try again. If, on the other hand, you shrug your shoulders and go off to play with something else that kid will go elsewhere to get his kicks.
Did I just make a kindergarten analogy? It really has been a long week...
eieio
Reply #11 Friday, December 19, 2003 5:59 PM
Ahh, but then it depends on if your reason for being, your purpose, your striving is in the building of the blocks, rather than the final product as a means in and of itself.
Reply #11 Friday, December 19, 2003 5:59 PM
| #10 by Citizen grayhaze - 12/19/2003 5:53:48 PM |
Ahh, but then it depends on if your reason for being, your purpose, your striving is in the building of the blocks, rather than the final product as a means in and of itself.
XX
Reply #12 Friday, December 19, 2003 6:00 PM
Reply #12 Friday, December 19, 2003 6:00 PM
"It's better to get killed on feet, not live on knees."
Hmm I don't think I got the quote right, but I intend to live on my feet till something happens or to my old age not on my knees, in fear of dangers.
I don't think it's dumb actually.
Hmm I don't think I got the quote right, but I intend to live on my feet till something happens or to my old age not on my knees, in fear of dangers.
I don't think it's dumb actually.
grayhaze
Reply #13 Friday, December 19, 2003 6:04 PM
Reply #13 Friday, December 19, 2003 6:04 PM
I have a hidden motive anyway. I'm terrified of heights, so I'm just unable to comprehend the entire concept of a building with more than two or three floors.
I'll honestly never understand the American obsession with building taller and taller structures. Face it guys, you can't touch the moon that way.
I'll honestly never understand the American obsession with building taller and taller structures. Face it guys, you can't touch the moon that way.
goodmorphing
Reply #14 Friday, December 19, 2003 6:20 PM
Reply #14 Friday, December 19, 2003 6:20 PM
Actually the office portions of the building stop at 79, I think. The twin towers were each 100+. The height of this monument is partially taken by the wind generators, which I think is especially poignant. I hope it is the beginning of a complete movement to stop our dependency on oil. I hope it represents a heartfelt statement that others will listen to and emulate. Not only for political reasons, but for the ecology as well. Clean energy, cut the ties to oil ... what a fitting monument.
grayhaze
Reply #15 Friday, December 19, 2003 6:34 PM
Reply #15 Friday, December 19, 2003 6:34 PM
I'm sorry, you seem to have completely lost me there goodmorphing. How is an ecologically 'friendly' building a fitting monument to those people who died at the hands of American-hating Afghan terrorists? Where does oil come into the equation? Or are we just lumping all those Middle Eastern fellows together into one big mess now?
A 'fitting' monument would be one which remembers each and every individual who lost their lives on that terrible day. Some wind generators and a bunch of offices in a really big glass building don't exactly give me that.
A 'fitting' monument would be one which remembers each and every individual who lost their lives on that terrible day. Some wind generators and a bunch of offices in a really big glass building don't exactly give me that.
Jafo
Reply #16 Friday, December 19, 2003 6:41 PM
Reply #16 Friday, December 19, 2003 6:41 PM
Modern Architecture tends to embrace sustainable energy and efficiency as the cost of 'running' a modern massive structure escalates.
When pre-occupying oneself with concerns of history, heritage and monument it's important to remember/be aware that Architecture is about social design, growth and direction, not about making 'stuff'.
Society's Architects are charged with the concrete [pun] fabrication of the Community's future direction.
It's irrelevant that a proposed replacement to the WTC be a bigger or lesser 'target' to potential attack, but that the Society it 'monuments' not be swayed from the legitimacy of being that WAS the WTC.
When I studied Architecture I was initally bemused that 3 of the included subjects of the 44 were Sociology, Psychology and Philosophy...but 'doing them' I soon understood their importance was greater than 'Materials and Structures 1', etc.
We all create our environment at one level or another.....whether it's by grafitti, littering, murder, rape, having kids, building shopping malls, helping in soup kitchens or bossing the corporate machine.
The only really appropriate 'thing' for the WTC site is simply another WTC structure. Its very existence is the tribute/monument, and all that'd be 'good' to be added would be a commemorative 'stone' listing the names of those who died.....nothing OTT or dominant, just simple, genuine, and honest.
Future generations do not need the event force-fed, just not forgotten.
Future generations is what structures of this sort are all about [once one ignores the corporate investment profiteering, that is]....not so much the 'past' but 'future heritage'....
goodmorphing
Reply #17 Friday, December 19, 2003 6:43 PM
Reply #17 Friday, December 19, 2003 6:43 PM
The hijackers were not Afghan, nor is their leader. And it is not that much to do with mideastern civilization either, rather an idea that it is better to be a little less dependent all together.
goodmorphing
Reply #18 Friday, December 19, 2003 6:45 PM
Reply #18 Friday, December 19, 2003 6:45 PM
Please don't anyone start thinking I am in the habit of lumping any groups of people together simply because I have ideas that differ than yours. That couldn't be further from the truth and is totally uncalled for.
Aqua.
Reply #19 Friday, December 19, 2003 7:12 PM
Reply #19 Friday, December 19, 2003 7:12 PM
not to worry grayhaze, we already know how to touch the moon... and have already done so.
As for the new building, what better building to make than something that represents America? It's like spitting in the face of a terrorist. Besides, there are memorials worked in as well.
As for the new building, what better building to make than something that represents America? It's like spitting in the face of a terrorist. Besides, there are memorials worked in as well.
kongit
Reply #20 Friday, December 19, 2003 7:19 PM
Reply #20 Friday, December 19, 2003 7:19 PM
me want moon coloony. they couldn't terrorize that. 
The importance of the freedom tower is a monument to those who died and to show that terrorists will not make us whimper. They would still find a way to terrorize if we built a smaller safer tower.
The importance of the freedom tower is a monument to those who died and to show that terrorists will not make us whimper. They would still find a way to terrorize if we built a smaller safer tower.
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Reply #1 Friday, December 19, 2003 1:38 PM