TGT Soft sues Stardock (just in time for the holidays :( )
Friday, December 19, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Well it looks like the folks at TGT Soft are in the holiday spirit (not!). On Wednesday Stardock received a lawsuit from TGT Soft that was filed in
The lawsuit essentially asks for a declaration that TGT Soft can use Stardock’s IconPackager theme format without liability.
This incident began last month with the first beta of Style XP 2.0 which had a button labeled “Add an Icon Pack” which when pressed opened a dialog in which they could load a .iptheme or .ip file (IconPackager files). We were fairly annoyed that 1) They would try to compete with IconPackager/Object Desktop by using IconPackager files (remember, they sell this thing), 2) That they didn’t even give us credit for our icon packaging format but instead referred to them as “icon packs” as if .ipthemes were some generic term created by the ASCII group or something and 3) They didn’t even create icon packages but rather planned to just exploit the popularity of IconPackager which we’ve worked hard and long on for many years to make popular.
We informed them that this was unacceptable and we would defend our rights either technically or legally if necessary. If they want to compete with Object Desktop or IconPackager they would need to come up with their own format that they have to support and promote. If they want to put out an icon changing program, that’s fine. But to copy our format and use it so that they can undercut the price of our software is unacceptable and we believe, illegal.
In subsequent correspondence, we even offered to license them the use of our format for a modest royalty (remember, this isn’t a freeware program we’re talking about, they’re selling Style XP for $20 a pop). Their response was to reject that and file a lawsuit that seems to be designed to force us to let them use/convert our IconPackager theme format without any compensation.
Apparently they would have it where we would be the ones to provide the software to create and support icon packages (which is where most of the development/marketing costs have come from) and they would just reap the benefits financially. Note that Style XP 2.0 currently does not seem to have the ability to actually create icon packages/sets. Only apply them.
They have subsequently come up with their own format (.iconset) but since they can’t actually create .iconset files from their program, they rely on a new program they’ve made, IconTranslate, which seems to exist primarily to convert IconPackager themes to their “.IconSet” format. And once installed turns on a feature in Style XP to read IconPackager themes directly from within their program.
Picture this scenario then: Someone buys Style XP instead of IconPackager or Object Desktop costing us income. Then their customers would come to WinCustomize.com to download icon packages to use with their program, costing us more money since we pay for the bandwidth. We pay the costs, they make the money, and to top it off, they’re suing us, costing us legal expenses.
To us, this situation is akin to someone asking a skinner to let them port their skin to a different platform and if the skinner says no then turning around and suing them to try to force the skinner to let them port their skin. Stardock fully intends to defend its intellectual property rights. The implications if TGT Soft were to win are far reaching not just to Stardock but intellectual property holders everywhere including skin and theme authors.
We generally feel that people who create stuff should have a say over how that stuff is used. Stardock worked long and hard to make IconPackager a success. Its popularity is not due to marketing but due to the hard work over a long period of time (ex: making it possible to create and apply icons on Windows 95, Windows 95 + IE4, Windows 98, Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP). Doing that was not easy as early IconPackager users can attest to. It was very hard to make IconPackager work reliably on the many different versions of Windows, different interactions with the OS and Internet Explorer, etc. But this was part of the effort necessary to make IconPackager successful and why it’s the most popular, by far, icon packaging technology available. On top of that, Stardock has paid many thousands of dollars over the years to create icon packages to help promote our program and format (such as the recently released Christmas Time IconPackager theme).
For someone to simply come along and try to cash in on our hard work without any compensation strikes us as both morally and legally wrong. But to actually sue us (and they are also suing me personally, not just Stardock and I can say, on a personal note, getting a lawsuit that targets me personally a week before Christmas is pretty crummy) is just incredible.
Like I said, we don’t have a problem with them changing icons or making icon sets. What features they add to their program are their business. But to try to profit from our hard work over many years is wrong and to file a lawsuit against us (and me personally) to try to force us to let them use our intellectual property goes beyond words.
So that’s where we’re at. We will defend our rights because the implications it would have on all our software as well as on the community. If people who create things don’t get to have a say on how it’s used, it would likely have a chilling effect on our community – whether you’re a skin author, an icon artist, a theme author, or a software developer.
IconPackager’s page is: https://www.stardock.com/products/iconpackager/
Reply #262 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 1:48 AM
Reply #263 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 3:47 AM
Let's not 'bomb them with 2 million emails'....let's just let Adni know what is happening and assist him if requested.
It's called 'responsible, mature action'....
Reply #265 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 4:51 AM
A friend of mine, Lightstar, has asked me for a permission to convert some of my icons to a new format,"you would mind if some of your icons were converted to the new .iconset format " he said and I said yes. I thought that he will giving me credits and not as he did, upload them with my name. That's all.
I will ask Lightstar to delete them from there, I can't do it alone now, because I am not even a member there, I don't know the password to log in.
I am and I will continue supporting Brad in any case, no doubt about it, much more now, that it is obvious that he has the right in he's side.
[Message Edited]
Reply #266 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 5:06 AM
Reply #267 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 5:39 AM

Reply #268 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 7:24 AM

Reply #269 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 8:12 AM

Reply #271 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 9:17 AM

I just now read alot of what was going on with this suit. I was away from my communication for several days. It's sad to hear that they had the nerve to do such a thing. My big thing is watch it, they might find a hole somewhere. Just like the lady winning a suit against Mc D's for spilling hot coffee on her. Explaining about her for those that don't know. A lady went through the drive-thru at Mc Donalds, got a cup of coffee, when she was driving she spilled it on her, she sued Mc D's for getting burned since they never told her that the coffee was hot. That's the rough version of what went on. And she won. There has been a bunch of suits that have won and shouldn't of. Most dealt with common sense but the judge must of been a moron also.
I've read several other sites on this topic and 98% favor Stardock compared to TGT. I've also read over and over again that people do hope that MS does get into this and hit them with a suit of their own to take them further into the hole.
About the e-mailing the company, it might make them scared if there are alot of people doing it. There is power in numbers most of the time. And the people who create the skins/icons should have a huge say in what goes on. But the programmers get the most credit and say since they did the hard work in creating the wonderful programs.
Weaksid will shut up now.

Reply #272 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 9:21 AM
| #244 by sig101 - 12/22/2003 9:38:00 PM This doesn't appear to be a personal claims case where the plaintiff asks for damages because the hot coffee you sold him was hot and he spilled it on himself. |
Just read this, it was said earlier about the same thing. Didn't read all 200 and some comments before posting

Reply #273 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 1:13 PM
I find it ironic that ThemeXP has only shown an interest in icon packages since TGT Soft started doing icon "sets".
If icon packages were something that interested users they could have put up an IconPackager section at any time in the past 2 years it's been up.
Reply #274 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 1:37 PM
On the business side I am sure they are looking at: Why in the world would I buy your crap from TGT Soft when I can remove your junk from the mix and go directly to the source with spending my money on real applications from Stardock?
They are attempting to be middle ware in a place that there is not any market for it so with smoke and mirrors of their own creation they attempt to paint a picture of them actually being equal to or in fact above those which they would steal from...
Kinda like Hot Wheels employees running through the shipping docks of GM and slapping Hot Wheel stickers on all the cars and claiming they are in fact their products and they are in fact the first one who ever marketed them...

Reply #275 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 11:26 PM
I wanted more pop-ups but it would seem that my request was ignored. Maybe because my computer crashed from the ENDLESS pop-ups I did see.
I understand needing funding for the site but sheesh!
Reply #277 Thursday, January 8, 2004 4:56 PM

mmm, I wonder if TGT could be considered a WMD (Weapon of Moral Destruction) ?
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Reply #278 Thursday, January 8, 2004 5:49 PM

Reply #279 Thursday, January 8, 2004 6:29 PM
Reply #280 Thursday, January 8, 2004 8:36 PM
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Reply #261 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 1:44 AM
[Message Edited]