TGT Soft sues Stardock (just in time for the holidays :( )

Friday, December 19, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk

Well it looks like the folks at TGT Soft are in the holiday spirit (not!).  On Wednesday Stardock received a lawsuit from TGT Soft that was filed in Louisiana.

 

The lawsuit essentially asks for a declaration that TGT Soft can use Stardock’s IconPackager theme format without liability. 

 

This incident began last month with the first beta of Style XP 2.0 which had a button labeled “Add an Icon Pack” which when pressed opened a dialog in which they could load a .iptheme or .ip file (IconPackager files). We were fairly annoyed that 1) They would try to compete with IconPackager/Object Desktop by using IconPackager files (remember, they sell this thing), 2) That they didn’t even give us credit for our icon packaging format but instead referred to them as “icon packs” as if .ipthemes were some generic term created by the ASCII group or something and 3) They didn’t even create icon packages but rather planned to just exploit the popularity of IconPackager which we’ve worked hard and long on for many years to make popular.

 

We informed them that this was unacceptable and we would defend our rights either technically or legally if necessary. If they want to compete with Object Desktop or IconPackager they would need to come up with their own format that they have to support and promote.  If they want to put out an icon changing program, that’s fine. But to copy our format and use it so that they can undercut the price of our software is unacceptable and we believe, illegal. 

 

In subsequent correspondence, we even offered to license them the use of our format for a modest royalty (remember, this isn’t a freeware program we’re talking about, they’re selling Style XP for $20 a pop). Their response was to reject that and file a lawsuit that seems to be designed to force us to let them use/convert our IconPackager theme format without any compensation. 

 

Apparently they would have it where we would be the ones to provide the software to create and support icon packages (which is where most of the development/marketing costs have come from) and they would just reap the benefits financially. Note that Style XP 2.0 currently does not seem to have the ability to actually create icon packages/sets. Only apply them.

 

They have subsequently come up with their own format (.iconset) but since they can’t actually create .iconset files from their program, they rely on a new program they’ve made, IconTranslate, which seems to exist primarily to convert IconPackager themes to their “.IconSet” format. And once installed turns on a feature in Style XP to read IconPackager themes directly from within their program.

 

Picture this scenario then: Someone buys Style XP instead of IconPackager or Object Desktop costing us income. Then their customers would come to WinCustomize.com to download icon packages to use with their program, costing us more money since we pay for the bandwidth.  We pay the costs, they make the money, and to top it off, they’re suing us, costing us legal expenses.

 

To us, this situation is akin to someone asking a skinner to let them port their skin to a different platform and if the skinner says no then turning around and suing them to try to force the skinner to let them port their skin. Stardock fully intends to defend its intellectual property rights.  The implications if TGT Soft were to win are far reaching not just to Stardock but intellectual property holders everywhere including skin and theme authors.

 

We generally feel that people who create stuff should have a say over how that stuff is used. Stardock worked long and hard to make IconPackager a success. Its popularity is not due to marketing but due to the hard work over a long period of time (ex: making it possible to create and apply icons on Windows 95, Windows 95 + IE4, Windows 98, Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP).  Doing that was not easy as early IconPackager users can attest to. It was very hard to make IconPackager work reliably on the many different versions of Windows, different interactions with the OS and Internet Explorer, etc. But this was part of the effort necessary to make IconPackager successful and why it’s the most popular, by far, icon packaging technology available.  On top of that, Stardock has paid many thousands of dollars over the years to create icon packages to help promote our program and format (such as the recently released Christmas Time IconPackager theme).

 

For someone to simply come along and try to cash in on our hard work without any compensation strikes us as both morally and legally wrong.  But to actually sue us (and they are also suing me personally, not just Stardock and I can say, on a personal note, getting a lawsuit that targets me personally a week before Christmas is pretty crummy) is just incredible.

 

Like I said, we don’t have a problem with them changing icons or making icon sets. What features they add to their program are their business. But to try to profit from our hard work over many years is wrong and to file a lawsuit against us (and me personally) to try to force us to let them use our intellectual property goes beyond words.

 

So that’s where we’re at.  We will defend our rights because the implications it would have on all our software as well as on the community. If people who create things don’t get to have a say on how it’s used, it would likely have a chilling effect on our community – whether you’re a skin author, an icon artist, a theme author, or a software developer.

 

IconPackager’s page is: https://www.stardock.com/products/iconpackager/

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Jafo
Reply #241 Monday, December 22, 2003 8:40 PM
If it were a 'test case' to enable the use/abuse of intellectual property surely one would choose a situation that had at least a snowflake's chance in hell of success....unless of course the intention is to fail admirably and reinforce the status quo....
Aqua.
Reply #242 Monday, December 22, 2003 9:05 PM
The problem here is that the suite was filed in La. That is not a state in which you want to be brought to court in. The juries there go nuts with how much money they make defendants dish out.
[Message Edited]
WOM
Reply #243 Monday, December 22, 2003 9:15 PM
I wouldn't worry about it, as it will probably be a judge only.



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sig101
Reply #244 Monday, December 22, 2003 9:38 PM
This doesn't appear to be a personal claims case where the plaintiff asks for damages because the hot coffee you sold him was hot and he spilled it on himself. TGT apparently is asking the court for a declaration, a legal decision, that exempts them from being held liable for copyright infringement by Stardock or, presumably, another court. As WOM said, those sorts of things are usually heard by a judge not a jury.

Yes Jafo, I'd imagine this is the kind of case which in some places would get laughed out of court or someone would be fined for bringing a frivolous lawsuit. But maybe they do things differently in La.
[Message Edited]
CerebroJD
Reply #245 Monday, December 22, 2003 11:01 PM
http://www.googlefight.com/cgi-bin/compare.pl?q1=TGTsoft&q2=Stardock&B1=Make+a+fight%21&compare=1&langue=us

I think we all know who the winner of this fight will be!
MadIce
Reply #246 Tuesday, December 23, 2003 3:19 AM
Hehe. Even Kona is more popular than TGTsoft. Kona clearly wins!

http://www.googlefight.com/cgi-bin/compare.pl?q1=TGTSoft&q2=Kona&B1=Make+a+fight%21&compare=1&langue=us

He's even more popular than Stardock.
TheSkinsFactory
Reply #247 Tuesday, December 23, 2003 3:45 AM
funny site. i laughed when i read the one that was "your momma" vs. "my momma" hehe
CerebroJD
Reply #248 Tuesday, December 23, 2003 10:57 AM
And by a much closer margin:

http://www.googlefight.com/cgi-bin/compare.pl?q1=Brad+Wardell&q2=TGTsoft&B1=Make+a+fight%21&compare=1&langue=us

Brad Wardell takes on TGTsoft!
Anthony R
Reply #249 Tuesday, December 23, 2003 2:28 PM
I put my money on Brad in the third round.

Rutabaga64
Reply #250 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 12:21 AM
hm...I see icon packages are now available for download at ThemeXP.
kongit
Reply #251 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 12:26 AM
um I wonder if adni submitted his icons to themexp?
they are there
kongit
Reply #252 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 12:28 AM
it looks like he did. I guess its his choice.
[Message Edited]
Hus
Reply #253 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 12:31 AM
Thats wierd...look at the comment from the authors:

"A gray version of Pixelorama from adni18"
"Neil Young's fantastic New Silver System icon set"


Now, if you are submitting your own work...why would you write such a comment?
[Message Edited]
Sugaree
Reply #254 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 12:33 AM
links please
Hus
Reply #255 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 12:34 AM
http://www.themexp.org/view_info.php?id=41362
http://www.themexp.org/view_info.php?id=41361
kongit
Reply #256 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 12:37 AM
but on another it reads as though it was adni and gives a link to adni's page. at least I think its adnis page.
Frogboy
Reply #257 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 1:00 AM
I can't believe Adni would do that. Someone else must be uploading them without his permission. I woudl be very surprised if Adni would do this.



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Sugaree
Reply #258 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 1:04 AM
I don't think it's Adni either...the ss looks like crap!
kongit
Reply #259 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 1:35 AM
somebody talk to him yet?
messybuu
Reply #260 Wednesday, December 24, 2003 1:43 AM
I'm positive it isn't his, unless he's just recently started referring to himself in the third person, which if he has, then I want to know which team he's on (hopefully the Kings!)!



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