Understanding designs (blue prints)
Saturday, December 13, 2003 by IPlural | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
You know, for once I wish that people who build homes, or heck, people who build anything for that matter, would LEARN HOW TO READ THE PRINTS!!!
I mean heck if it says 3' 5" to center that is what it means, not 3' 4 1/2" and not 3' 5 1/2" but 3' 5"!
I've spent my life either building things or designing them and I have never found anything "close enough or good enough" It is either right or wrong and if wrong you do it again and make it right... sheesh
Plumbers are just as bad as rent-a-drunks....
I mean heck if it says 3' 5" to center that is what it means, not 3' 4 1/2" and not 3' 5 1/2" but 3' 5"!
I've spent my life either building things or designing them and I have never found anything "close enough or good enough" It is either right or wrong and if wrong you do it again and make it right... sheesh
Plumbers are just as bad as rent-a-drunks....
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Jafo
Reply #2 Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:41 PM
Reply #2 Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:41 PM
lP...
It's a fact of life.....approximately 10% of builders can read a plan...and on a good day about 50% of Architects can read a plan.
I know.....I've been pretending to be able to read them for 30 years....
As for a half inch error.....typical building practise has degrees of tolerance...and in the case of plumbing rough-in....half an inch would be acceptable...
EventHorizon
Reply #3 Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:42 PM
Thats what you get for living in the south. 
Reply #3 Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:42 PM
| rent-a-drunks |
Thats what you get for living in the south. 
Leo the Lion
Reply #4 Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:43 PM
Reply #4 Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:43 PM
Right, all over to IP's house. I'll bring a wrench. Someone bring a hammer. Kona, you bring that brand new axe that we could not find any use for yesterday. We can raid IP's stash of ice cold Buds whilst we are over there
kongit
Reply #5 Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:43 PM
Reply #5 Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:43 PM
I'm majoring in engineering, and tolerances depend on what you are building. A house has more tolerance then a car, which in turn has more tolerance then a computer chip. At least thats what my instructors say. 
IPlural
Reply #6 Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:55 PM
Reply #6 Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:55 PM
Jafo, yes but not when it is already off and they call out a number to the person cutting the pipe who cuts it short
true very true, but at least you get the Bolt Pattern lined up correctly !!!
This is no joke, I had to cut out and cut off a flange today that had the toilet tank on one end sitting at 3 inches away from the *square* wall and 1 1/2 inches away at the other end of the tank...
I'm sorry but 1 1/2 inches it little more than two feet is not something I would have accepted from anyone I had working for me, and I definitly would not have done it....
Travis, yes, your instructors are correct without a doubt, Building a home it not the same as designing a mold used in inject molding, or designing an ari cylinder ( both of which I used to do for a short time )...
Also, for instance, the intieror of a car has looser tolerences than say the crank, berrings, journels, rods, wristpins, pistons, rings, deck and heads...
Ever heard an engine start up after someone shaved off too much from the deck without taking all those tings into consideration
BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG! BOOM
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
true very true, but at least you get the Bolt Pattern lined up correctly !!!
This is no joke, I had to cut out and cut off a flange today that had the toilet tank on one end sitting at 3 inches away from the *square* wall and 1 1/2 inches away at the other end of the tank...
I'm sorry but 1 1/2 inches it little more than two feet is not something I would have accepted from anyone I had working for me, and I definitly would not have done it....
Travis, yes, your instructors are correct without a doubt, Building a home it not the same as designing a mold used in inject molding, or designing an ari cylinder ( both of which I used to do for a short time )...
Also, for instance, the intieror of a car has looser tolerences than say the crank, berrings, journels, rods, wristpins, pistons, rings, deck and heads...
Ever heard an engine start up after someone shaved off too much from the deck without taking all those tings into consideration
BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG!BANG! BOOM
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
White_Moth
Reply #7 Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:59 PM
Reply #7 Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:59 PM
I watched a building crew build my architect uncle's house, and one day I asked them why the were not putting the rebar in the basement wals as specified.
They said, "Architects over engineer everything, and we feel that the walls don't need it."
So I asked, "And how long did you study stress loads in engineering school?"
By this time the concrete trucks showed up on site, and I told the crew that they can do as they will, but, when you have to tear these walls down to the foundation on your own dime, then we will see how smart you are."
They canceled the concrete order, bought the rebar, tore down the forms and did it right, cost them several days and who knows how much money.
My guess was, when they "Read" the plans, they decided to forego the rebar, to bid the job low enough to land the job.
They said, "Architects over engineer everything, and we feel that the walls don't need it."
So I asked, "And how long did you study stress loads in engineering school?"
By this time the concrete trucks showed up on site, and I told the crew that they can do as they will, but, when you have to tear these walls down to the foundation on your own dime, then we will see how smart you are."
They canceled the concrete order, bought the rebar, tore down the forms and did it right, cost them several days and who knows how much money.
My guess was, when they "Read" the plans, they decided to forego the rebar, to bid the job low enough to land the job.
White_Moth
Reply #8 Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:59 PM
Reply #8 Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:59 PM
I watched a building crew build my architect uncle's house, and one day I asked them why the were not putting the rebar in the basement wals as specified.
They said, "Architects over engineer everything, and we feel that the walls don't need it."
So I asked, "And how long did you study stress loads in engineering school?"
By this time the concrete trucks showed up on site, and I told the crew that they can do as they will, but, when you have to tear these walls down to the foundation on your own dime, then we will see how smart you are."
They canceled the concrete order, bought the rebar, tore down the forms and did it right, cost them several days and who knows how much money.
My guess was, when they "Read" the plans, they decided to forego the rebar, to bid the job low enough to land the job.
They said, "Architects over engineer everything, and we feel that the walls don't need it."
So I asked, "And how long did you study stress loads in engineering school?"
By this time the concrete trucks showed up on site, and I told the crew that they can do as they will, but, when you have to tear these walls down to the foundation on your own dime, then we will see how smart you are."
They canceled the concrete order, bought the rebar, tore down the forms and did it right, cost them several days and who knows how much money.
My guess was, when they "Read" the plans, they decided to forego the rebar, to bid the job low enough to land the job.
IPlural
Reply #9 Saturday, December 13, 2003 6:07 PM
exactly so, and on a smaller scale this can be applied to many things...
the difference between a craftsman and a carpenter are simple.
A Craftsman will look at something finished see the flaws and debate over mentioning the check, a Carpentaer will see the check and present the contract and discuss the flaws in the truck on the way to the store for Beer 30...
Close enough for Government work is something I was fast on learning is not acceptable.. Big brothers are a bitch to word for, remember being sent to the truck for the rest of the day more than once. Of course I could always fight him about it if I wanted to and if I won I could ignore him telling me to go sit in the truck. But.... 140 lbs against 235 - 260 just didn't seem like good odds, that and the fact he ddin't feel pain like a normal person...
Reply #9 Saturday, December 13, 2003 6:07 PM
| My guess was, when they "Read" the plans, they decided to forego the rebar, to bid the job low enough to land the job. |
exactly so, and on a smaller scale this can be applied to many things...
the difference between a craftsman and a carpenter are simple.
A Craftsman will look at something finished see the flaws and debate over mentioning the check, a Carpentaer will see the check and present the contract and discuss the flaws in the truck on the way to the store for Beer 30...
Close enough for Government work is something I was fast on learning is not acceptable.. Big brothers are a bitch to word for, remember being sent to the truck for the rest of the day more than once. Of course I could always fight him about it if I wanted to and if I won I could ignore him telling me to go sit in the truck. But....
140 lbs against 235 - 260 just didn't seem like good odds, that and the fact he ddin't feel pain like a normal person...
Apocalypse_67
Reply #10 Saturday, December 13, 2003 8:03 PM
Reply #10 Saturday, December 13, 2003 8:03 PM
IPlural, in the words of my Mechanical Drafting teacher....
...There is nothing a 16lb sledge hammer cant fix.
...There is nothing a 16lb sledge hammer cant fix.
Jafo
Reply #12 Saturday, December 13, 2003 10:52 PM
Reply #12 Saturday, December 13, 2003 10:52 PM
Someone once asked...'what's the difference between a carpenter and a joiner?'
I told him....'a joiner still has all his fingers'..
SuperheroCanadian
Reply #14 Sunday, December 14, 2003 2:34 AM
Reply #14 Sunday, December 14, 2003 2:34 AM
gah... i hate making prints, but reading them!!! now that sux, especially when u have to turn those prints into a 3d model 
. Anyone who can read a good set of plans on any given day has my respect
. Anyone who can read a good set of plans on any given day has my respect
digital_trucker
Reply #15 Sunday, December 14, 2003 4:37 AM
Reply #15 Sunday, December 14, 2003 4:37 AM
How about architects that design a commercial building that is beautifully landscaped, to the point that the loading/unloading docks are almost completely unusable due to the fact the access road twists and turns all over the place, and the area in front of the dock doors lacks about 3 feet of room to maneuver a truck in.
Or designers that make cup holders that fit no known bottle or cup, and dump it on the floor the first bump you hit.
Or engineers that decided that a 4 inch filler hole was necessary in a diesel tank for the 1 1/2 nozzle to fit...requiring bungee cords and whatnot to keep the nozzle from falling out during fueling. Probably the same ones that decided thin sheet metal brackets are a good place to bolt air line fixtures to...so that it just bends around when you try to wrench the fitting off.
I don't have much use for 'em.
Or designers that make cup holders that fit no known bottle or cup, and dump it on the floor the first bump you hit.
Or engineers that decided that a 4 inch filler hole was necessary in a diesel tank for the 1 1/2 nozzle to fit...requiring bungee cords and whatnot to keep the nozzle from falling out during fueling. Probably the same ones that decided thin sheet metal brackets are a good place to bolt air line fixtures to...so that it just bends around when you try to wrench the fitting off.
I don't have much use for 'em.
IPlural
Reply #17 Sunday, December 14, 2003 10:58 AM
true very true
Reply #17 Sunday, December 14, 2003 10:58 AM
| ....'a joiner still has all his fingers' |
true very true
kona0197
Reply #18 Sunday, December 14, 2003 11:02 AM
Oh man i just shined that axe up, sharpened it and the wife told me to put it away.
I have a few tanks....
Reply #18 Sunday, December 14, 2003 11:02 AM
| Kona, you bring that brand new axe that we could not find any use for yesterday. |
Oh man i just shined that axe up, sharpened it and the wife told me to put it away.
I have a few tanks....
kona0197
Reply #19 Sunday, December 14, 2003 11:07 AM
I love making designs on my AutoCAD but reading them does and always will suck.
Reply #19 Sunday, December 14, 2003 11:07 AM
| gah... i hate making prints, but reading them!!! now that sux, |
I love making designs on my AutoCAD but reading them does and always will suck.
werewolf
Reply #20 Sunday, December 14, 2003 12:19 PM
Reply #20 Sunday, December 14, 2003 12:19 PM
I'm remodeling the exterior of my home. The hardware store where I purchsed the windows asked for the rough opening dimensions to use when ordering the window sizes. I asked him if he wanted exact dimensions or rounded to the next inch. He said exact. The windows I received were 1/4" too big in both dimensions. Phhhht
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Reply #1 Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:38 PM