Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?
Tuesday, December 9, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
A large percentage of you who read this are already WinCustomize premium subscribers. You've already done your part to help this site keep going.
But I must say, things are grim this holiday season here. 2 expensive servers are down. We must get 2 new servers in here. We need to get another 2 servers on top of that for redundancy but that can wait a bit. But it's depressing knowing that millions visit this site each month and we've only gotten 156 new subscribers since the subscription drive began. It definitely makes a strong case that perhaps the days of free skins are over. That the skin authors and web masters, who pull their weight, should move towards a more commercial model that benefits primarily those who contribute (skinners, subscribers, and developers).
My friend Scott (Jark) has much the same problems over at deviantART: http://news.deviantart.com/article/12039/
That is, the problem of having massive MASSIVE traffic but only a tiny fraction of those users paying the bill. Many people think, incorrectly, that massive traffic == money. It doesn't.
I can tell you, those of you who have purchased premium subscriptions here have helped the community in ways that the average user can't possibly fathom. Premium subscribers combined with the volunteer efforts of this site's administrators (Jafo, Boxxi, DavidK, Treetog, Alexandrie, Kaosati, MikeB, Hippy, and others) are what keep things going.
Without the premium subscriptions, I can tell you right now what would happen. This site would slowly morph into being a purely Stardock oriented site with bandwidth caps for all users (including Object Desktop users - though theirs would be higher). Support for non-Stardock sections would slowly disappear or be restricted to subscribers only. The wallpaper section would only be available to those who either have a wallpaper on there that got accepted or subscribers (in all these exaples, anyone with apprentice access or higher would be treated as a subscriber).
There would be banner ads, and things would become vastly more commercial. Instead of a free Christmas suite, it would be a $8 Christmas suite. Instead of free skins, a new system would b eput in place to allow authors to sell their skins as part of te library once they had achieved a certain access level. One-click purchasing by users with the skin authors getting a percent.
That is the commercialized future of skinning. The alternative. It's not necessarily dark and evil. But it is a much different world than what we have now. I suspect many skin authors out there would jump at the chance of being able to get paid for their skins.
I've posted for years that our community is made up of 3 co-equal groups: The skinners, the web masters, and the users. We webmasters are doing everythign we can. The skinners have done their part. The users have to do their part as a collective. Which means of the 75,000 unique visitors this site gets each day, 500 more of them need to contribute back too. As the alternative to voluntarily helping will be paying bits and pieces here and there for skins and themes. The alternative is a smaller community, a more commercialized community but a sustainable one too.
Personally, I hope some balance can be found. While some people think we represent the commercialization of skinning, in reality, we don't. We simply want...must find a sustainable model that allows our community to grow. We have all seen the instability Deskmod, Skinz.org, and even Customize.org have faced. The site has grown beyond what Stardock can pay for via Object Desktop sales. While Stardock's revenue has grown, the traffic to this site has DOUBLED this year.
Like I said, a large percentage of you have already done your part. There's nothing more you can do. But hopefully, the millions of people who come to this site will have some infintesible number of them that recognize that someone has to pay for all this stuff.
The end of the year may end up being the end of this site as we know it. Those new machines will be purchased one way or the other. But if Stardock ends up having to pay for any of those two new machines, it's going to come with strings attached. Ones that will certainly benefit subscribers but the casual users of the world will probably not like.
Reply #62 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 10:29 AM
| WB or Iconpackager or other Stardock product purchase......Annual subs to include cost of download access to library relating to purchase only plus download access to walls, logons etc. |
not to be the devils advocate but you do not have to dl a wall to use it.

Reply #63 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 10:33 AM
itd be a novel idea if it were like the local store where we could hand a few quarters. but when usesing credit cards over the internet and stuff id imagine theres a lil more involved.
of course u could always make a few smaller and more restricted subscriptions available for those who use the resources less..
[Message Edited]
Reply #64 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 11:04 AM
I truely enjoy coming here and seeing the fantastic work all of the skinners do
and all of the skinners and the like always answer you when you make a comment.I think it's great they take the time to do this. I even e-mailed Keila because I really love alot of her work and she answered me
of course so do all of you
I feel lucky I can afford a lot of what is offered and I have bought it.I just wish people who can would buy a subscription 
Reply #65 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 11:33 AM
everybody will hate me for this, but before completely changing the site I think a single adbanner at the top of all pages would more then cover the cost. I hate ads, but I'd rather see an ad then this site go into disfunction ... well more disfunction |
I'm afraid you're mistaken. We already have an ad banner on the top of the page for non-subscribers. Log off and you'll see it. It pays about $300 to $500 per month. WinCustomize costs nearly $10k per month to exist.
Reply #66 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 11:44 AM
Kona: You don't need to have a credit card to subscribe. I don't have one either. I'll use a money order. From Europe that takes 4 to 6 weeks, but it will probably be faster from the States.
The postoffice is now closed here, but I'll deal with it first thing in the morning.
Reply #67 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 11:51 AM

Reply #68 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:00 PM
wow 10k thats not just piggy bank money.
You need more subscribers and thats about the end to it, but how to get more?

Reply #69 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:15 PM
We have a solution for money problems if the current method doesn't work. It's just one that most users will dislike.
For the purpose of brevity subscriber and users with access >citizen are synonymous.
The alternative (spelling it out) is:
1) Any skin author with journeyman or higher, when they upload a skin, icon package, theme, or wallpaper can set a check to have it become premium. It would cost $1.99 to $3.99 to purchase depending on what it was. The skin author would receive 25%. It would be a 1 click type purchase.
WinCustomize subscribers would get a 50% discount on the prices. It would help skin authors get compensated for their skins, help encourage better skinning, and give new skinners a goal - to climb up the ladder to become a Journeyman. And it would help WinCustomize. Users, on the other hand, would likely find that many skins that were "free" were now not free anymore.
2) Non-subscribers would be put on a single smaller pipe for downloading.
3) Non-subscribers, when visiting the website the first time each day would be greeted with a full screen advertisement (ala Gamespot).
4) Download cap would be made both account based and IP based. No more creating a new account when the 50 meg cap is reached. We'll probably do that anyway.
5) Freebies like the Christmas suite would become non-freebies.
6) More overt Stardock presence on the site. Non-Stardock sections that are competitive in nature would have to justify themselves more. Non sections would be removed but they wouldn't be on by default.
Some of this probably should be done anyway. But I think we can all agree that these things, partciularly item 1, would be a major change. Existing skins from top authors would suddenly cost money to download. I suspect there are plenty of skin authors who wouldn't mind seeing that anyway.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter WHY user X can't "afford" to get a subscription. We're talking only needing 0.03% of monthly uniques to get a subscription. We find it pretty unconvincing taht 99.97% of the people who visit this site (heck, let's say ONLY 99.9% since quite a few people have subscriptions already) are hard luck cases.
There is more than one way to run a skin site. The alternative plan is one that I suspect would be quite popular with skin authors, admins, and even many users who don't see buying skins and themes any different than buying music or any other artistic content.
Reply #70 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:24 PM
The idea of encouragement to make better skins/wallpapers is a good idea - although you'd think people would *want* to make their "best" walls already hehe.... I'm all for the pay site, if people can't open their wallets. These are usually the same people who will buy a 24 pack of beer, hit the movies, fill their gas tank to "cruise town", buy a bag of Doritos at 2 a.m. and a case of coke to wash it down - then actually anticipate sympathy when they cry "broke". *shrugs*Reply #71 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:26 PM

Reply #72 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:52 PM
| Ahhhh hell, I need to get $20 and get a subscription, I feel like crap now. |
don't...
ever hear of the term "power lunch"?
well, this is a "power thread" in my opinion

There are a few different ways you can look at it.
I see it as a means for positive growth for the site and everyone who makes use of it, not a fight for the survival of new Citizens and a slash and bash make over for the site in general.

I think some really good things could come out of this that not only helps keep the life giving blood of the site flowing on the hardware/bandwidth side (money to operate)
I think that there is a distinct possibility that some of what comes from this thread could very well end up being a hugely invigorating boost instead of just a sustaining force...

For instance, KarmaGirl has started a contest to win funding for a Subscription.
Other such possibilities or expansion on her contest to coninute it in the future is not out of the question I am sure and there will be more positive things that come about

Reply #73 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:58 PM
it happens.
people who are generous come and go in waves really
more in a larger scale than we can see every day.
Reply #74 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:59 PM
| #46 by CoyoteMy - 12/10/2003 5:04:16 AM |
I wouldn't call you a winer. You explained yourself.
I'll say 2 things though, I'll bet you'll spend 20 dollars on something you want to have in the next week dispite your other bills.
And the other thing is about the content... if there isn't really anything that you like then its ok to not want to buy the subscription... but if by "I don't really like anything here" you mean that you have downloade 100 megabytes of stuff then it is obvious that you like allot here.
Reply #75 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 1:11 PM
| #69 by Scribe Frogboy - 12/10/2003 12:15:16 PM We have a solution for money problems if the current method doesn't work. It's just one that most users will dislike. |
You mean the users that do most of the downloading?
Honestly I would love to see this plan. Hold off on getting these servers for another month and set up a subscriber plan. List the features and stuff.
handling multiple accounts for downloading will be limited because you would have to make 100's just to get at a few areas of the site.
You can also set it up such that the site is totally open (open as in its current state now) for a few wekends a month and other days its just limited.
Reply #76 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 1:59 PM
goodmorphing thinks, though, along with them perhaps T-man should make some filters for the message board allowing only one thread per change.. only one 30mb cap thread rant, only one $$$$ rant, only one what happened to my section rant..... also, lots of extra chocolate for the moderators who have to deal with all the complaints.
Reply #77 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 2:15 PM

Reply #78 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 2:19 PM
I actually thought about it. But to tell the truth, the last time I got something besides essential food and medication was a month or two ago when I mistakenly bought Simpsons:Hit and Run. I wish I didn't, crappy game.
Anyways, I'll have $20 for Christmas, unless something falls through (Please god, no more ER visits.) then I'll use my mums credit card to get a subscription.
Someone mentioned that alot of people spent their money going to the movies, blowing gas-money, etc. I'm not at all like that. I stay in the house 24/7 due to my condition and the only thing I live for is ER on TNT/NBC and artwork and what little bit of friends I have made in various communities. I'll admit there are times I blow money, but that's actually very rare.
If I ever win my SSI case, I'll have at least $200 a month to help pay my Doctor bills and then I can afford to register these great programs like WindowBlinds, CursorXP, etc. Which I will, when I get the money, but until then, I have to grin-and-bear the freeware editions.
Just for curiosity.. Why don't Wincustomize consider posting 3D models for purchase? Users can make 3D models, than post them for download, 50% going to the author and 50% going to the site. Models could range from vehicular models that could be easily made for games to just regular 3D models. I dunno, just an idea, because I noticed there's a "graphic" section.
Reply #79 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 2:21 PM
Reply #80 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 2:40 PM
.This would encourage me to better ,more complete skinning.Things like Icon Packages and sysmetrix,that I have avoided in the past,I would now take the time to do.This would also encourage skinners to take advantage of all the new features that Adam has put into SkinStudio.(and probably increasing the sales of SS too)
.The prices frogboy mentioned seem high tho...If you have a suite of skins,1$ per section would sell a lot of skins and people could choose which pieces they wanted.Might have to make walls cheaper,(they could be included in the price of a WB) and you would have to give away dock icons unless they were a whole premium set.
.Purchasers would need free updates to skins when they become available.I havnt got a clue how the single click purchase would work,Unless it means automatic deduction from a CC or a prepaid account by money order.Handling 1$ transactions 1 at a time sounds difficult.This would need to be as painless as possible.
.Ive always thought WC did things kinda backwards in only showing the public the highest rated stuff to dl.Makes more sense to me to show them everything,but only allow them to dl the higher rated stuff if they subscribe.You'll get lots of whiners,but you'll cut back on the bandwidth.(and maybe make a few dollars in the process)

Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
- Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums and downloading skins.
- Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
- Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
- It's simple, and FREE!







Reply #61 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 10:24 AM
good joke.