Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?
Tuesday, December 9, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
A large percentage of you who read this are already WinCustomize premium subscribers. You've already done your part to help this site keep going.
But I must say, things are grim this holiday season here. 2 expensive servers are down. We must get 2 new servers in here. We need to get another 2 servers on top of that for redundancy but that can wait a bit. But it's depressing knowing that millions visit this site each month and we've only gotten 156 new subscribers since the subscription drive began. It definitely makes a strong case that perhaps the days of free skins are over. That the skin authors and web masters, who pull their weight, should move towards a more commercial model that benefits primarily those who contribute (skinners, subscribers, and developers).
My friend Scott (Jark) has much the same problems over at deviantART: http://news.deviantart.com/article/12039/
That is, the problem of having massive MASSIVE traffic but only a tiny fraction of those users paying the bill. Many people think, incorrectly, that massive traffic == money. It doesn't.
I can tell you, those of you who have purchased premium subscriptions here have helped the community in ways that the average user can't possibly fathom. Premium subscribers combined with the volunteer efforts of this site's administrators (Jafo, Boxxi, DavidK, Treetog, Alexandrie, Kaosati, MikeB, Hippy, and others) are what keep things going.
Without the premium subscriptions, I can tell you right now what would happen. This site would slowly morph into being a purely Stardock oriented site with bandwidth caps for all users (including Object Desktop users - though theirs would be higher). Support for non-Stardock sections would slowly disappear or be restricted to subscribers only. The wallpaper section would only be available to those who either have a wallpaper on there that got accepted or subscribers (in all these exaples, anyone with apprentice access or higher would be treated as a subscriber).
There would be banner ads, and things would become vastly more commercial. Instead of a free Christmas suite, it would be a $8 Christmas suite. Instead of free skins, a new system would b eput in place to allow authors to sell their skins as part of te library once they had achieved a certain access level. One-click purchasing by users with the skin authors getting a percent.
That is the commercialized future of skinning. The alternative. It's not necessarily dark and evil. But it is a much different world than what we have now. I suspect many skin authors out there would jump at the chance of being able to get paid for their skins.
I've posted for years that our community is made up of 3 co-equal groups: The skinners, the web masters, and the users. We webmasters are doing everythign we can. The skinners have done their part. The users have to do their part as a collective. Which means of the 75,000 unique visitors this site gets each day, 500 more of them need to contribute back too. As the alternative to voluntarily helping will be paying bits and pieces here and there for skins and themes. The alternative is a smaller community, a more commercialized community but a sustainable one too.
Personally, I hope some balance can be found. While some people think we represent the commercialization of skinning, in reality, we don't. We simply want...must find a sustainable model that allows our community to grow. We have all seen the instability Deskmod, Skinz.org, and even Customize.org have faced. The site has grown beyond what Stardock can pay for via Object Desktop sales. While Stardock's revenue has grown, the traffic to this site has DOUBLED this year.
Like I said, a large percentage of you have already done your part. There's nothing more you can do. But hopefully, the millions of people who come to this site will have some infintesible number of them that recognize that someone has to pay for all this stuff.
The end of the year may end up being the end of this site as we know it. Those new machines will be purchased one way or the other. But if Stardock ends up having to pay for any of those two new machines, it's going to come with strings attached. Ones that will certainly benefit subscribers but the casual users of the world will probably not like.
Reply #42 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:01 AM
Reply #43 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:12 AM

Reply #44 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:41 AM
..thx guys for a wunderful year . and heres to many more 
Reply #45 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:58 AM
To those that keep this site up and running you do a fantastic job, also a not so easy one at times I am sure. For those that put there skins here and have such creative minds to create such wonderful stuff....HERE'S TO YOU!!!
You are all what makes this site possible, lets hope the visitors here will see that too.
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Reply #46 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:04 AM
1.) Lack of content in the type of art/material I like.
2.) Doctor bills. I already spend $100 a month for monthly visits to Doctor and medications. Since I have no life, no job, and no disability, my parents pay for that which means I get less and less.
3.) Wincustomize thankfully is cheap, but it's expensive, and to an extent, rediculous that every website wants money for their work. $20 here, $30 to a half-ass working DA, and $75 to various programs, etc. It's way to expensive for my blood right now.
However, it is christmas time and there's bound to be $20 from somewhere. Whenever I get it, I'll buy my subscription. It's just kinda sad in a way because for some people, $20 is alot, while others have it to give without a second thought.
I wish websites like DA/Wincustmize could stay "free-ware" though with the premium services. Sadly, everyone wants money, and the admins have to pay for the access one way or another. Meh.
Edit:
Of course I know someones gonna call me a whiner or whatever, but as I said. Many people value money differently. It's not fair to those that want to experience great art, but have to consider giving up a months worth of medication or something, you know?
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Reply #47 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:23 AM

Reply #48 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:52 AM
For example, many people come here once or twice and get a wallpaper. While some stick around and continue mooching without subscribing, without contributing.
It's like a bunch of kids reading magazines in the stores while their parents shop. They read the entire magazine but never buy it. They leave with the knowledge the magazine offered, but didn't contribute buy purchasing it.
Ahhhh hell, I need to get $20 and get a subscription, I feel like crap now.
Reply #49 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 6:00 AM
Reply #50 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 6:12 AM
Then only the ones who are subscribers will have the option to download. (from SDC or Browser) I believe then, People should reach for their wallets.
Reply #51 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 6:23 AM
If you did not see this thread https://www.wincustomize.com/msgboard.asp?id=216300&BID=WC&page=1#216965 read it now and tell me that your blood does not boil? Mine certainly did hence why i asked for its removal as i found it rather.....well i'll say no more otherwise some rather unpleasant words are going to come out. Its most probably good that it was not zapped by Jafo or one of the other Mods as it just goes to show to everyone what is going on.
Solutions?
1. No Stardock purchase.........No downloads from WC. Viewing access only.
2. OD purchase.......Annual subs to include cost of full unlimited access to WC.
3. WB or Iconpackager or other Stardock product purchase......Annual subs to include cost of download access to library relating to purchase only plus download access to walls, logons etc.
4. OD or WB try before you buy.....Hmmmmmmmm. Tricky very Tricky. This is the "open door" to the treasure trove and needs careful thought. You have got to give these folks the cake but leave off some of the icing and decoration so they come back for more. This needs more thought when it comes to WC access.
These are just my initial thoughts and opinions for what they are worth and are very much "off the hoof" but one things for sure - we have got to do something about this situation. We are most probably fortunate that matters have not reached critical level yet but they are not far off so we have a bit of breathing space to try work out what is best for everyone concerned
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Reply #52 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 6:54 AM
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Reply #53 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:01 AM
the lil subscription thingy at the top right of these pages, at first glance it looks like the button to buy the advertised wincustomize goodie displayed above it ..post a larger version of it on top of the main page with the header SAVE WINCUSTOMIZE.. get their attention i bet theres quite a few that would be willing to pay but just havent got the info abt whats goin on ..Reply #54 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:27 AM
Yesterday...on a similar thread, while keeping a watchful eye on it I came to realise that lots of talk did diddly-squat to solve the 'problem'....so I subscribed instead.
Bit silly, really, as it doesn't 'get me anything' I haven't already got, being a site Admin.
What it DOES DO, however, is get that target $20 dollars closer.
Obviously I'm involved with this community....so it's only 'right' that I 'support' it as much as I can....[or do my little bit].
Now the trouble is that so many people in this world will leave things for 'the other guy' to sort out.....but just WHO IS this 'other guy'? Anyone ever seen him?
Like the world's most prolific rock band ....'And Many More' [you see their stuff on every compilation].....they DON'T exist.
YOU are the 'other guy'......it's up to the 'yous' out there to step forward. I couldn't justify wanting others to do what I hadn't done myself...so it was immaterial whether I was 'buying' something I had no use for.
Most post-mortems about what could have been done are a result of people not doing something right in the first place.
$20 US is about $25 or 6 AUS [we're catching up]...which will buy you 2 adult tickets to the movies in Australia....maybe 3 hours entertainment.
Somehow I have a tiny feeling I get more 'entertainment' right here...at Wincustomize.com.
Worth every penny...
Reply #55 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 8:28 AM
I'd say only allow 3 specific skins for download each year.
Why?
1. This will cut unsubscribed downloads dramatically
2. No more reregistering to get more MBs to download 'cause your only going to be able to get the same three skins
I don't come here very often and I download skins even less(I make my own) and even though whenever I ask for help on the forums I normally don't get any I still support this place. The little bit I do download is worth the cash and I think the subscription cost is dirt cheap so i'd feel bad if I didn't subscribe. I say why wait until the drive ends. I'd love to see how much bandwith drops with only 3 skins available to the gen. public
Reply #56 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 8:41 AM
Not long in coming here last year, I saw the VALUE right away and made haste to subscribe. And although I have yet to skin anything, though now I am working on that, I HAVE made many friends here that have helped me in ways unimaginable I could not have made anywhere else on the Internet, or in the "world" for that matter.
Wincustomize is a rare and exceptional "Home" that cannot be matched due to those who have taken a personal interest in it by volunteering, and or simply and cheaply subscribing.
I hope to be here long into the future.

Reply #57 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 8:51 AM
I hope everything works out. I enjoy this site and it's skins alot. But, I have problems of my own here. About a month ago, I purchased Object Desktop and a subscription to Wincustomize because I enjoy it so much I thought it was about time I contributed, plus I wanted the enhanced version. I can't get the enhanced version installed on my system, and my Stardock Central thing won't update corectly. I keep getting an error. So unless I cna get it straightend out, I feel like I just wasted about $70.00 I have Windows XP, Home Edition
I don't want my money back. All I want is what I paid for. I was really anxious to get it,too.
I emailed Stardock Support yesterday and am waiting to hopefully get the answers I need from them.
Reply #58 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:25 AM
the other point that really stands out to me is the one of cost. there is this regular point that $20 isn't a lot of money. for an adult working full time with a reasonable level of disposable income this is true.
however, what about people who find money is tight? kids using their parents PC? people who don't live in america, so who have a different level of average disposable income?
it is probably to late in the day now for this to help with the new servers, but longer term what about some skins available to non subscribers for only 50 cents each or less? the idea (perhaps a wild hope) is that if there are very cheep items you can sell more of them. personally, i feel that $8 for a christmas skin suite where i will only use part of it is quite a lot of money. but 50 cents for a single part of it might be worth it.
this is (partly) inspired by news reports here in England about the American presidential elections. apparently the new candidate challenging Bush (i don't remember his name off hand) has raised a load of money via the internet by accepting donations of any size. the inference was he got a lot of money via a very large number of very small donations.
might this sort of plan work for wincustomize? if you are a parent and your kids asked for $20 for a website subscription you might well say no. however 50 cents for a cool WB skin might work.
| Jafo - Yesterday...on a similar thread, while keeping a watchful eye on it I came to realise that lots of talk did diddly-squat to solve the 'problem'....so I subscribed instead. |
feline *applauds Jafo for his wise words*

Reply #59 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:37 AM
i feel so so..ok so i dont feel any different
well i do feel better abt helpin out 
Reply #60 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 10:10 AM
I was gonna submit that idea an hour ago, about buying individual pieces for half a buck but for some reason I didn't.
I think that'd be a great idea. Because over a two year period, Wincustomize would get well over $20 from a user if there's enough good content to keep users wanting more.
Normal users could be charged 50cents and people that really donate to the community could get freebies or lower prices maybe, who knows.
I do like this site and would hate to see it go.
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Reply #41 Wednesday, December 10, 2003 3:42 AM