Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?
Tuesday, December 9, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
A large percentage of you who read this are already WinCustomize premium subscribers. You've already done your part to help this site keep going.
But I must say, things are grim this holiday season here. 2 expensive servers are down. We must get 2 new servers in here. We need to get another 2 servers on top of that for redundancy but that can wait a bit. But it's depressing knowing that millions visit this site each month and we've only gotten 156 new subscribers since the subscription drive began. It definitely makes a strong case that perhaps the days of free skins are over. That the skin authors and web masters, who pull their weight, should move towards a more commercial model that benefits primarily those who contribute (skinners, subscribers, and developers).
My friend Scott (Jark) has much the same problems over at deviantART: http://news.deviantart.com/article/12039/
That is, the problem of having massive MASSIVE traffic but only a tiny fraction of those users paying the bill. Many people think, incorrectly, that massive traffic == money. It doesn't.
I can tell you, those of you who have purchased premium subscriptions here have helped the community in ways that the average user can't possibly fathom. Premium subscribers combined with the volunteer efforts of this site's administrators (Jafo, Boxxi, DavidK, Treetog, Alexandrie, Kaosati, MikeB, Hippy, and others) are what keep things going.
Without the premium subscriptions, I can tell you right now what would happen. This site would slowly morph into being a purely Stardock oriented site with bandwidth caps for all users (including Object Desktop users - though theirs would be higher). Support for non-Stardock sections would slowly disappear or be restricted to subscribers only. The wallpaper section would only be available to those who either have a wallpaper on there that got accepted or subscribers (in all these exaples, anyone with apprentice access or higher would be treated as a subscriber).
There would be banner ads, and things would become vastly more commercial. Instead of a free Christmas suite, it would be a $8 Christmas suite. Instead of free skins, a new system would b eput in place to allow authors to sell their skins as part of te library once they had achieved a certain access level. One-click purchasing by users with the skin authors getting a percent.
That is the commercialized future of skinning. The alternative. It's not necessarily dark and evil. But it is a much different world than what we have now. I suspect many skin authors out there would jump at the chance of being able to get paid for their skins.
I've posted for years that our community is made up of 3 co-equal groups: The skinners, the web masters, and the users. We webmasters are doing everythign we can. The skinners have done their part. The users have to do their part as a collective. Which means of the 75,000 unique visitors this site gets each day, 500 more of them need to contribute back too. As the alternative to voluntarily helping will be paying bits and pieces here and there for skins and themes. The alternative is a smaller community, a more commercialized community but a sustainable one too.
Personally, I hope some balance can be found. While some people think we represent the commercialization of skinning, in reality, we don't. We simply want...must find a sustainable model that allows our community to grow. We have all seen the instability Deskmod, Skinz.org, and even Customize.org have faced. The site has grown beyond what Stardock can pay for via Object Desktop sales. While Stardock's revenue has grown, the traffic to this site has DOUBLED this year.
Like I said, a large percentage of you have already done your part. There's nothing more you can do. But hopefully, the millions of people who come to this site will have some infintesible number of them that recognize that someone has to pay for all this stuff.
The end of the year may end up being the end of this site as we know it. Those new machines will be purchased one way or the other. But if Stardock ends up having to pay for any of those two new machines, it's going to come with strings attached. Ones that will certainly benefit subscribers but the casual users of the world will probably not like.
Reply #442 Wednesday, December 17, 2003 11:50 AM
I'm speaking of the "newer skinners" paxxy not anyone else okay? stay open minded

Reply #443 Wednesday, December 17, 2003 11:53 AM
Reply #444 Wednesday, December 17, 2003 12:15 PM

Reply #445 Wednesday, December 17, 2003 1:23 PM
I know no one can give me the answer to this - How many people do you think will visit this site today who are members or non-members who will go straight to the sections where the programs are free and have not paid a single penny to Wincustomize or Stardock?
| which brings us back to the point i made earlier. you are then "making" the people who buy Stardock programs support Light-step, beatnik, windows media player, and the free programs also.when put this way, this doesn't sound so good / appealing. |
feline, why? - sorry us cats normally can read each other like books but tell more as i am interested in why you say this and your overall opinion.
Reply #446 Wednesday, December 17, 2003 1:27 PM
And maybe have discounts on sold premium skins. For example if your a WC subscriber then ToonXP will cost 5 dollars instead of 9.
The skinner get noteriaty and saves the site.
Plus, there can be more options for WC subscripbers like site advatages, user icons, text banners, the formetioned discounts, skinner pages (and let skinners have sales for skins MAYBE for an extra fee), a job search engine letting people look for skinners to do projects, and a bigger Wincusto store.
Reply #447 Wednesday, December 17, 2003 1:28 PM
Reply #448 Wednesday, December 17, 2003 1:57 PM
If you buy Object Desktop, you get Wincustomize price lessened to 10$. Since there is many Object Desktop users, it may be better, even with half price.
Reply #449 Wednesday, December 17, 2003 1:59 PM
as suggested before by Brad...
and it does work, iTunes and a number of other content providers are already using or moving to this model because it does work. Those that have or will Subscribe (including cross referenced accounts) are already opted into a different model without extended fee's. But those who are just hanging on until the end of time are in the micro-payment model, with the ability to take part in different means of gaining full subscription as a prize for Skinning, but it is up to them to take over the update of the subscription when it runs out, or to continue expanding skinning skills to fit into another model where their skins sold with micro-payments from others helps offset the fee's for their continued subscription.
Some possible means of being awarded a subscription prize funded by donations could be...
Skinning contest on a monthly basis where one or more Subscriptions are presented as a prize (KarmaGirl came up with a great idea with this me thinks).
Subscription given to those who do the most to help support the site by means other than monetary.
Subscription awarded based upon growth of skills in Skinning and Development in other areas of Windows Modification such as DesktopX Plugins and such. ( maybe every three months or 6 months)
any number of things...
But I do think that micro-payments is a viable option which could really make a difference over a period of time as people got used to it.
I also believe that coming up with a better means of controlling theft of the Stardock products would in fact have an impact on the number of subscribing members while also promoting a higher influx of funding for the site based on the sales of those products.
Serialization...
Instead of a valid email account...
Create Trial Serial Numbers to activate the software upon install, and for those visiting they must provide a valid Trial Serial Number that cross references to the information they provided to have that serial number generated. But have a server process do the generation and email as is done with the Registered Software and email them the info. Then when they create an account here they must have that valid number and when the 30 days runs out their account is either shifted over to micro payments, or it is dinked.
With the registered Cross Reference account the Serial Number and Registration Information is cross checked to validate...
I would go further with this thought, but there isn't any need I am sure and it really isn't the best place to do it I am betting... anyway....
just some mental mastication
[Message Edited]
Reply #450 Wednesday, December 17, 2003 4:04 PM
Reply #451 Wednesday, December 17, 2003 4:06 PM
The libraries cover many applications, some free. These applications are not that large of the picture really as they can be found all over the net, but it is nice to have everything in one place, for both those designing them and submitting them and those downloading them and making use of them. (these could very well fit into a micro-payment model)
Stardock specific things such as WindowBlinds Skins, DesktopX themes, ObjectBar themes and such, yes, a registered serial number could be used... Even a registered Trial serial number could be made use of...
This would allow for better control of pirating of the products and also help with the creation of multiple accounts to circumvent the policies of the site.
Trillian Pro 2 makes use of a server side validation system that cross checks peoples information against what is entered into the registration fields when installing the program client side. They just have not done a very good job with handeling bogus user info which is allowing the use of the software with hacks...
anyway... mmmm...
there is a lot which can be done to make it harder for the more informed on that issue and pretty much ending it for those less informed...
Lost sales alone would be a help on two fronts, one, more people who purchase and register the products means more ROI from those who do use the site because then it is a drawing factor.
More people who register will cross reference meaning more money off the bottom of the sale will shift to the site helping to offset costs more...
[Message Edited]
Reply #454 Wednesday, December 17, 2003 4:31 PM
I hope I am not putting my foot in it, but, frankly, Stardock will always have a skin site for their own skins. If you subtract the cost of hosting all the SD related items ( which they have always done ), how much expense is left? If I go by what Frogboy has said in the past, all the non-SD sections are a drop-in-the-bucket compared to the SD sections. Beyond that there is only the site code and messageboards, right?
So what is the ratio of cost between the items that SD will always have, with or without WC, as opposed to the costs of those things they are doing simply to support the community with no benefit to themselves? It has been pointed out that SD is doing a lot here that they don't have to do, but maybe those expenses should be looked at separately, since the rest will *still* be expenses when WC is gone.
IN that light, WC should only have to raise enough money to support the NON-Stardock oriented content, right? What percentage of the expenses will Stardock still have if WC goes down tomorrow?
[Message Edited]
Reply #455 Wednesday, December 17, 2003 4:37 PM
expenses = bandwidth costs * stardock bandwidth / total bandwidth
With:
expenses = expenses for StarDock if Wincustomize were to go down and they were to provide hosting for skins for their own apps
stardock bandwidth = bandwidth used by skins/themes for StarDock software
Reply #456 Wednesday, December 17, 2003 4:39 PM
Reply #457 Wednesday, December 17, 2003 4:41 PM
| Maybe even a WinCusto skin for the computer casing? Laptop bag?... it has to look sweet tho |
Yeah right........I'm wearing my Wincustomize Y-Fronts right now

Reply #458 Wednesday, December 17, 2003 4:43 PM
I suck at math. If that meant
(total transfer) - (total transfer of SD skins) = WC expenses
Then yeah, that is what I mean roughly. It seems like income for WC should be compared to WC expenses, not the total expenses.
**
Also, considering that Themes site is just a front end for this one, shouldn't it play some part in the whole thing? Do people bang the hell out of it without knowing it is WC? Need to visit, I forget how that works.
Reply #459 Wednesday, December 17, 2003 4:50 PM
thats just it...
beyond the ones who do subscribe(including those who cross reference) Stardock foots the total sum left over...
Reply #460 Wednesday, December 17, 2003 5:00 PM
http://www.xpthemes.com/
This site is a front end to the DB here, has no membership, and appears to be a free download site. Is that transfer subracted from WC's expenses?
Is there a cap for people who browse there? What is the deal with that? Why are people there allowed to download from this database without even knowing WC exists? Sure, the top link points here, but they really never have to hit it, do they?
**
IPlural: Yes, but even back in the skinzorg days Stardock hosted their own skins. If the implication is that that WC needs to pull its own weight, then SD's permanent expenses should be subtracted, right?
If SD is gonna have skin-hosting expenses with or without WC, then I don't think those expenses should be taken into account when deciding on WC's survivability. I have a feeling if you remove all the transfer SD will be paying for with or without WC, the chance of WC paying it's own way is much, much more likely.
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Reply #441 Wednesday, December 17, 2003 11:25 AM