Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?

Tuesday, December 9, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk

A large percentage of you who read this are already WinCustomize premium subscribers. You've already done your part to help this site keep going.

But I must say, things are grim this holiday season here. 2 expensive servers are down. We must get 2 new servers in here. We need to get another 2 servers on top of that for redundancy but that can wait a bit. But it's depressing knowing that millions visit this site each month and we've only gotten 156 new subscribers since the subscription drive began. It definitely makes a strong case that perhaps the days of free skins are over. That the skin authors and web masters, who pull their weight, should move towards a more commercial model that benefits primarily those who contribute (skinners, subscribers, and developers). 

My friend Scott (Jark) has much the same problems over at deviantART: http://news.deviantart.com/article/12039/

That is, the problem of having massive MASSIVE traffic but only a tiny fraction of those users paying the bill. Many people think, incorrectly, that massive traffic == money. It doesn't.

I can tell you, those of you who have purchased premium subscriptions here have helped the community in ways that the average user can't possibly fathom.  Premium subscribers combined with the volunteer efforts of this site's administrators (Jafo, Boxxi, DavidK, Treetog, Alexandrie, Kaosati, MikeB, Hippy, and others) are what keep things going.

Without the premium subscriptions, I can tell you right now what would happen.  This site would slowly morph into being a purely Stardock oriented site with bandwidth caps for all users (including Object Desktop users - though theirs would be higher). Support for non-Stardock sections would slowly disappear or be restricted to subscribers only.  The wallpaper section would only be available to those who either have a wallpaper on there that got accepted or subscribers (in all these exaples, anyone with apprentice access or higher would be treated as a subscriber).

There would be banner ads, and things would become vastly more commercial. Instead of a free Christmas suite, it would be a $8 Christmas suite. Instead of free skins, a new system would b eput in place to allow authors to sell their skins as part of te library once they had achieved a certain access level. One-click purchasing by users with the skin authors getting a percent.

That is the commercialized future of skinning. The alternative. It's not necessarily dark and evil. But it is a much different world than what we have now. I suspect many skin authors out there would jump at the chance of being able to get paid for their skins.

I've posted for years that our community is made up of 3 co-equal groups: The skinners, the web masters, and the users.  We webmasters are doing everythign we can.  The skinners have done their part.  The users have to do their part as a collective.  Which means of the 75,000 unique visitors this site gets each day, 500 more of them need to contribute back too.  As the alternative to voluntarily helping will be paying bits and pieces here and there for skins and themes.  The alternative is a smaller community, a more commercialized community but a sustainable one too.

Personally, I hope some balance can be found. While some people think we represent the commercialization of skinning, in reality, we don't. We simply want...must find a sustainable model that allows our community to grow.  We have all seen the instability Deskmod, Skinz.org, and even Customize.org have faced.  The site has grown beyond what Stardock can pay for via Object Desktop sales.  While Stardock's revenue has grown, the traffic to this site has DOUBLED this year.

Like I said, a large percentage of you have already done your part. There's nothing more you can do.  But hopefully, the millions of people who come to this site will have some infintesible number of them that recognize that someone has to pay for all this stuff. 

The end of the year may end up being the end of this site as we know it. Those new machines will be purchased one way or the other. But if Stardock ends up having to pay for any of those two new machines, it's going to come with strings attached. Ones that will certainly benefit subscribers but the casual users of the world will probably not like.

First Previous Page 20 of 27 Next Last
Apocalypse_67
Reply #381 Saturday, December 13, 2003 12:15 AM
Dang, I need to do that... Imagine getting paid to have fun


It's not fun all the time. Some of the people that will hire you are very demanding on what they are paying for so you might find your self breaking a sweat once in a while
NaturallyPoetic
Reply #382 Saturday, December 13, 2003 2:20 AM
I have had ODNT(registered) for about a year now, and just love the Wincustomize site! I am grateful for all the lovely skins, objects, icons, etc. that everyone has made and shared. But, I did not know, or understand that as a registered member that I needed to contribute in some way until I got the Stardock Cental Browser and started looking at this discussion (never looked at them before cause I have never got into stuff like that) I thought all I had to do was register and everything was cool. I was free to download anything I wanted, and did, not thinking anything more about anything else. So, if that's the way I percieved it all, I'm sure many others are blind to all of this too, and aren't purposely leeching.
I am glad though, that I did read this discussion. It opened my eyes to things I didn't see before and I'm sorry for my ignorance.

I also purchased a WC subscription today and was glad to do so... and my opinion on this discussion would be to keep things simple. Have a certain amount of stuff free in each category and the rest for subscribers only... and then state beside each skin for example wether it's free, or for subscribers only. That way they are free to download some, plus be able to see it all, but will also know that if they want the good stuff, they will have to buy a subscription.
themorphium
Reply #383 Saturday, December 13, 2003 2:44 AM
So it looks very likely that they will go over 500. So it looks like nothing will change.


Soon or later you'll need to change everything.





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kongit
Reply #384 Saturday, December 13, 2003 2:46 AM
I say let the site slowly change. No big changes. It'll mess up my zen.
Styl-X Design
Reply #385 Saturday, December 13, 2003 6:00 AM
if you are asking me, the best way to help the site is this:

Everyone that buys a subscription get $15 for free, everyone else needs to buy 'money' themself.
This 'money' is in your account and you cant download unless you have the money there.
Downloading a skin cost you 0.05$ - 0.15$ (depends on from witch library you download.)
Imagine, 0.15$ a skin, I think everyone can miss 0.15.
lets say that 2/3 is going to stardock(/wincustomize) and 1/3 is going to the skin author.
This money that is going to the skin author is added to his account and he can get the money from there at any moment he want. (and transfer it to a pay pal account or whatever.)


I think this should solve the problem.
If you imagine how much downloads there are per day....

Just my oppinion.
_02
Reply #386 Saturday, December 13, 2003 6:33 AM
A lot of the ideas that people have thrown out there are good ones, but nobody seems to have taken into account that reaching the download cap for non-subscribers can be be dragged out over a long period of time, and that when people have pretty much an unlimited time span to reach a decision as to whether or not to purchase a subscription, they will most likely not make the decision to buy.

How about putting a time limit on non-subscription accounts? Have them expire after say 60 days with no option for renewal. This way, when a user's account expires, they are faced with either purchasing a subscription, or going on their merry way.

We all know that it is possible to create more than one account, but there is likely a way that WC can fix that issue as well.

Just a thought......
chadlachlanross
Reply #387 Saturday, December 13, 2003 9:10 AM
A hard thread to follow here, but my two cents: Only if you have been living in box for the last three years will you have missed that almost nothing about the internet is free these days. My business was a DOT-Com casualty that I am only now managing to re-invent and rebuild.

Find some way to charge your downloaders. I liked the idea of viewing only, and downloading only if you are a subscriber. The idea of dividing the proceeds with the skinner *sounds* nice in theory (considering I'm in the top 10 Downloads at the moment) but I will be the first to admit that that idea is wrought with peril. Of course it is easy to think that Stardock is making money from our skins... and they are. Our graphics are what generate the sales for Windowblinds, DesktopX, etc. Without our graphics, there would be no world controlling empire that we call Stardock. But without Stardock, there would be no world wide empire to share our graphics with.

Skinning sites lately have gotten out of control. DevArt is a prime example. DevArt does happen to be one of the best community sites on the planet. But 50,000 new uploads each day? The uploads for this site have skyrocketed as well, especially with the additions of new categories such as Bootskin and ObjectDock. Growth is good. But as a former site op, finding the bandwidth and storage for all of it has to end somewhere.

Anywho, I ramble: In conclusion: I like the idea of this site being Stardock only. (and that means no wallpapers, either) It's always been known that Wincustomize was a Stardock love-child anyway, so time to bring that out of the closet and proclaim it from the tallest mountain (or server, I suppose)

And nothing in life is free: make them pay! (And if you want to kick back a portion to the author, I never turn money away... )

Share and Enjoy!
Styl-X Design
Reply #388 Saturday, December 13, 2003 9:23 AM
For seriouse, give some momey to the authors.
If people don't get payed for their uploads here, why wouldn't they upload it at deviantART, artupraor, deskmod etc etc. If you are the only one with the skins people will come to wincustomize. Else they will just get it for free somewhere else.

(btw, if people have to pay for their downloads, they will start skinning too, to get back 'their' money )
feline
Reply #389 Saturday, December 13, 2003 12:47 PM
at various points in time Stardock have said that they do *not* want to increate the price of OD to fund this site. if they did, then as an OD subscriber i could well ask why am i paying to support the download of lightstep themes, beatnik skins, etc.

as a subscriber to this site i accept this, since i knew what this site did when i subscribed.



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EventHorizon
Reply #390 Saturday, December 13, 2003 1:08 PM
385 and 388: Very interesting idea Styl...
XX
Reply #391 Saturday, December 13, 2003 3:08 PM
time limit on non-subscription accounts



Uh no thanks. My account is old, and I plan to keep it for longer still.
TheSkinsFactory
Reply #392 Saturday, December 13, 2003 4:05 PM
well i didn't bother reading this whole thing (16 pages?) but i know Wincustomize will always be open because you need a venue for skins for your apps - otherwise you're screwed. I think if you make the Stardock apps free to the general population and the other non-SD apps for only skinners and subscribers.
Leo the Lion
Reply #393 Saturday, December 13, 2003 4:20 PM
Listen to Chad's post #387 - There speaks a man who is talking sense
[Message Edited]
bordfryr
Reply #394 Saturday, December 13, 2003 4:27 PM
Everybody buy a couple of lottery tickets today and whoever wins can donate to WC.
TheSkinsFactory
Reply #395 Saturday, December 13, 2003 4:51 PM
I don't think "kicking back" money to the artists is at all warranted. No one forces anyone to upload here. I think the non-stardock apps should be available to the public because that in turn exposes their applications and the non-stardock apps should be for subscribers or a certain level of "class" (for lack of a better term - not sure what the correct word is for level here. I know that for skinners that are uploading quality content there should be an automatic subscription considering the skins are used to drive subscriptions, app sales and the cd that goes out.
wickedmaidtoall
Reply #396 Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:32 PM
Well I did get a subscription and I hope it helps because I am one of those that just use the site and like to get a giggle out of some of the messages on the board
Leo the Lion
Reply #397 Saturday, December 13, 2003 5:37 PM
Good for you wickedmaidtoall.......loooooove that nick. We have a lot of fun and mix it with some serious business which is what its all about. Do join in more with some of the threads and you will get to enjoy it even more
Leo the Lion
Reply #398 Saturday, December 13, 2003 6:34 PM
For those of you who might be interested in the similar predicaments at DeviantArt please view this thread http://news.deviantart.com/article/12039/
[Message Edited]
IPlural
Reply #399 Saturday, December 13, 2003 6:51 PM
wickedmaidtoall

TheSkinsFactory
Reply #400 Saturday, December 13, 2003 8:14 PM
i meant to say the stardock apps should be made available to the public.

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