Discouraged. Is our community as we know it coming to an end?

Tuesday, December 9, 2003 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk

A large percentage of you who read this are already WinCustomize premium subscribers. You've already done your part to help this site keep going.

But I must say, things are grim this holiday season here. 2 expensive servers are down. We must get 2 new servers in here. We need to get another 2 servers on top of that for redundancy but that can wait a bit. But it's depressing knowing that millions visit this site each month and we've only gotten 156 new subscribers since the subscription drive began. It definitely makes a strong case that perhaps the days of free skins are over. That the skin authors and web masters, who pull their weight, should move towards a more commercial model that benefits primarily those who contribute (skinners, subscribers, and developers). 

My friend Scott (Jark) has much the same problems over at deviantART: http://news.deviantart.com/article/12039/

That is, the problem of having massive MASSIVE traffic but only a tiny fraction of those users paying the bill. Many people think, incorrectly, that massive traffic == money. It doesn't.

I can tell you, those of you who have purchased premium subscriptions here have helped the community in ways that the average user can't possibly fathom.  Premium subscribers combined with the volunteer efforts of this site's administrators (Jafo, Boxxi, DavidK, Treetog, Alexandrie, Kaosati, MikeB, Hippy, and others) are what keep things going.

Without the premium subscriptions, I can tell you right now what would happen.  This site would slowly morph into being a purely Stardock oriented site with bandwidth caps for all users (including Object Desktop users - though theirs would be higher). Support for non-Stardock sections would slowly disappear or be restricted to subscribers only.  The wallpaper section would only be available to those who either have a wallpaper on there that got accepted or subscribers (in all these exaples, anyone with apprentice access or higher would be treated as a subscriber).

There would be banner ads, and things would become vastly more commercial. Instead of a free Christmas suite, it would be a $8 Christmas suite. Instead of free skins, a new system would b eput in place to allow authors to sell their skins as part of te library once they had achieved a certain access level. One-click purchasing by users with the skin authors getting a percent.

That is the commercialized future of skinning. The alternative. It's not necessarily dark and evil. But it is a much different world than what we have now. I suspect many skin authors out there would jump at the chance of being able to get paid for their skins.

I've posted for years that our community is made up of 3 co-equal groups: The skinners, the web masters, and the users.  We webmasters are doing everythign we can.  The skinners have done their part.  The users have to do their part as a collective.  Which means of the 75,000 unique visitors this site gets each day, 500 more of them need to contribute back too.  As the alternative to voluntarily helping will be paying bits and pieces here and there for skins and themes.  The alternative is a smaller community, a more commercialized community but a sustainable one too.

Personally, I hope some balance can be found. While some people think we represent the commercialization of skinning, in reality, we don't. We simply want...must find a sustainable model that allows our community to grow.  We have all seen the instability Deskmod, Skinz.org, and even Customize.org have faced.  The site has grown beyond what Stardock can pay for via Object Desktop sales.  While Stardock's revenue has grown, the traffic to this site has DOUBLED this year.

Like I said, a large percentage of you have already done your part. There's nothing more you can do.  But hopefully, the millions of people who come to this site will have some infintesible number of them that recognize that someone has to pay for all this stuff. 

The end of the year may end up being the end of this site as we know it. Those new machines will be purchased one way or the other. But if Stardock ends up having to pay for any of those two new machines, it's going to come with strings attached. Ones that will certainly benefit subscribers but the casual users of the world will probably not like.

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paxx
Reply #301 Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:47 PM

Oops. Just read your second message.

Dunno. Personnaly I think having to wait 24 hours is preferable to having to pay for the skins. IMO.
I'm trying to figure a solution that would be incentive enough to subcribe so there is no need to start charging for individual skins, which I think would be bad. Again, IMO.

MadIce
Reply #302 Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:48 PM
Yes, I know paxx. I was also brain storming. I've heard Brad saying here that he didn't want ODNT subscribers to pay for all this. If that is true then I don't think ODNT users should even have that 24 hour penalty.

Damn, posting goes fast in here

[Message Edited]
elvee
Reply #303 Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:50 PM
I love paying for Premium Suites, but I don't think I would pay for Individual Skins.



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paxx
Reply #304 Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:56 PM
But on the other hand, if we start charging for skins, ODNT would have to pay for them as well. One way or another, they'll end up paying. No?
Anyway, 24 hours isn't long. If I wasn't an admin, but just an ODNT client, I think I'd be dispointed abit about the 24h delay, but I think I'd understand, and probably would subscribe to get instant access.
Jafo
Reply #305 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:05 PM

The only real way to make things work could be to let the non-subscribing visitor....the casual...only be able to see, but not touch....no commenting, and no downloads....[maybe one or two in a free sample area].

To actually get any content at all one must register....and police multiple accounts.

Limit these 'Citizens' to 50 meg [or so]...

To go beyond requires all to assist financially, no free rides for skinners, Journeymen, Admins, even...we are ALL equal in that regard.

Then...the more you pay, or upload, or contribute, etc, as usual...the higher the level you reach, as now....but perhaps the time limits apply as a bonus, or even steps for DL caps....or faster dedicated pipes....whatever....to create that co-operative, mutual evolution/interaction between benefitting the site = benefitting the benefactor...

 

elvee
Reply #306 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:12 PM
I agree paxx that most of the ODNT people could understand the 24 hour waiting period, but still, unless these skins are WC exclusives why wait when there is a chance to get them at Site B..C..D..and so on?



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WOM
Reply #307 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:21 PM
I don't really download within the first 24 hrs. of an upload. So that wouldn't be an incentive for me. I subscribed to help the site. Nothing more or less. I haven't even downloaded the suites that come with the subscription. I do have to disagree somewhat with Jafo, I think the admins/moderators don't need to subscribe. They give enough of there time for free. If they want to, then they can.



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Stockholm Syndrome
Reply #308 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:22 PM
Eh....If I've just spent $50 on Object Desktop, I don't think I'd be that wild about having to then buy a subscription on top of that to get skin access without a delay. Blah. I dunno.
kongit
Reply #309 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:27 PM
I agree with jafo. There should be three levels, that encompase all individuals here on the site.

1:Unregistered users. They can look, but can't download. Another alternative is to provide limited items for them to download. ie Time limited skins, or overall limited objects, no skinned scrollbars, it only skins the open window, or the startbar, etc.
2:Registered users. They can download, 50 megs or more. But not everything will be a available. keep some premium suites for subscribers.
3:Paying subsribers. They have access to everything and no download limit.

All users (whatever level:citizen, apprentice, journeyman, etc.) would have to pay to become a subscriber.

I think some implementation like this would help to get more subscribers.
kongit
Reply #310 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:28 PM
well excluding those who give so much of their free time(admins and moderators)
Hus
Reply #311 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:28 PM
The main reason people come here is to download content. That is this sites main purpose, so that should be the enticing factor to subscribe. So how about if Visitor/Unregistered users have a tiny DL cap, 5mb (like it is now), registered users have a 25mb/month DL cap. ODNT customers have a 100mb/month DL cap, and ofcourse subscibers have unlimited DL cap. Naturally adjust numbers to taste. Just throwin' out ideas here...
MadIce
Reply #312 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:32 PM
100MB a month? I am visiting these shores for years. I have downloaded 158MB (mostly WB skins).

No. I don't think we are talking on a month basis here.
Sugaree
Reply #313 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:35 PM
Do whatever you need to do.

You give me what I want...I'll give you what you need
The DJ
Reply #314 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:35 PM
Maybe someone buying Object Desktop could also get a Wincustomize subscription at the same time for a small discount--like $15 or $17? Just an idea.
[Message Edited]
HG_Eliminator
Reply #315 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:37 PM
i think the level of user should determine the amount of skins per day and the quality of skins available ...
non reg get didly.
level 1 get a 8 meg cap per day..and a small % of level 8 and up skins they can download.
level 2 get 16 meg cap and a lil bit higher % of the level 8 and up skins to dl..
level 3 and up have no cap on downloded files or skin levels...
level 4 is same as level 3 but get set aside premium skins and suites...and the browser etc..and what ever u wanna add as incentives to get a subscription.... that way the lower ends get capped enough to slow the bandwidth eating while still givinum some stuff ta down load.. but still givin them incentive to subscribe for the full treatment ...
yrag
Reply #316 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:38 PM
You give me what I want...I'll give you what you need


...now we're talking!!!



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MadIce
Reply #317 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:40 PM
Remember that ODNT is a subscription already. It is not an one time investment. First year 50. Every next year 35. These people have payed a long time for the leeches. Let the leeches pay now.
MadIce
Reply #318 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:41 PM
You people are only increasing the download limits. 50MB like we have now was total. Not a day, not a month.
The DJ
Reply #319 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:42 PM
#315 by Mr HG_Eliminator - 12/11/2003 11:37:36 PM i think the level of user should determine the amount of skins per day and the quality of skins available ...non reg get didly. level 1 get a 8 meg cap per day..and a small % of level 8 and up skins they can download. level 2 get 16 meg cap and a lil bit higher % of the level 8 and up skins to dl..



An 8 meg cap *per day* most definitely would not work. With the average size of skins, how many is that? Then, just download your heart out and wait for tomorrow with another 8 megs.
IPlural
Reply #320 Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:44 PM
IPlural holds salt shaker behind back

mmm, prospective consumer until proven otherwise


[Message Edited]

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