Confused about the copyright issue.
Saturday, November 15, 2003 by crissy14 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Let me start by saying that my intention is not to single out or point the finger at anyone. I just want to be clear on this copyright thing. I see submissions being uploaded (in a lot of the libraries, but especially the bootskin library) that contain images that I would think would be copyrighted. Cartoon characters, movie stars, etc. I think I may have even violated the copyright law by using the microsft flag logo. Can someone please clarify for me what is violating this copyright law and what is not? 
And, if some of these submissions are in violation, why are they being accepted?
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And, if some of these submissions are in violation, why are they being accepted?
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kongit
Reply #2 Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:03 PM
Reply #2 Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:03 PM
I dunno, but i think that as long as you don't claim the image as your own, like you created it, most images can be considered somewhere in the public domain. I made two bootscreens, both with images of popular individuals. I personally don't feel as though I breeched any copyright, i only promoted my view as a fan of both individuals. Also I don't think that the owners of the copyrights would appreciate all creators of the skins on this site calling and asking for permission to use their copyrighted images. 
ripped skins and images being excluded
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ripped skins and images being excluded
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Jafo
Reply #3 Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:09 PM
Reply #3 Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:09 PM
US copyright interpretations/inclusions allow for 'fair-use' which is the apparent justification for 'fan-art' as it's called.
This is not the case in Australia, for example, where 'fair-use' does not apply, but Wincustomize.com [as is the case with most similar sites] is hosted in the US so theirs is the accepted protocol.
What still clouds the issue is the concept that someone could 'borrow' from another well-known/famous skinner's work and claim justification likewise as 'fair use' or 'fan art'....but that's where the line is drawn...[at least]...
Jafo
Reply #4 Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:11 PM
Reply #4 Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:11 PM
Travis......if it is ever possible, one MUST contact the copyright holder and to heck with their 'appreciation'.
If they're annoyed at the intrusion then most likely you won't be getting the required permission...
crissy14
Reply #6 Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:34 PM
WOW! Now I'm doubley confused
Reply #6 Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:34 PM
| 3 by Admin Jafo - 11/15/2003 10:09:03 PM US copyright interpretations/inclusions allow for 'fair-use' which is the apparent justification for 'fan-art' as it's called.but Wincustomize.com [as is the case with most similar sites] is hosted in the US so theirs is the accepted protocol. |
| 4 by Admin Jafo - 11/15/2003 10:11:31 PM Travis......if it is ever possible, one MUST contact the copyright holder and to heck with their 'appreciation'.If they're annoyed at the intrusion then most likely you won't be getting the required permission. |
WOW! Now I'm doubley confused
Koasati
Reply #7 Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:38 PM
Care to join the club?
Reply #7 Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:38 PM
| WOW! Now I'm doubley confused |
kongit
Reply #8 Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:42 PM
Reply #8 Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:42 PM
maybe they should put a statement like "all images are copyright of their respected owners" or something like that
crissy14
Reply #9 Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:52 PM
Reply #9 Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:52 PM
Travis Thompson
Why aren't you in bed with a hot tadi and vicks vapor rub?
Why aren't you in bed with a hot tadi and vicks vapor rub?
kongit
Reply #10 Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:56 PM
Reply #10 Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:56 PM
I woke up at 4 pm...not a very good schedule for a sick guy, but I live in a dorm and my bed is next to my desk.
Um, thanks for your concern, i think
cough, cough, snifffffff, uggggggh
Um, thanks for your concern, i think
cough, cough, snifffffff, uggggggh
crissy14
Reply #11 Saturday, November 15, 2003 11:02 PM
Reply #11 Saturday, November 15, 2003 11:02 PM
Just joking with you Travis. I read on another post that you said you had a cold 
Shameless Designs
Reply #13 Saturday, November 15, 2003 11:11 PM
Reply #13 Saturday, November 15, 2003 11:11 PM
Any aspect of the law in the US or elsewhere can get very complicated and this is no exception. If you're really interested in what the US law is and the fair use doctrine, here is a fairly good plain language presentation from the US Copyright Office: http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ1.html
Having said that, IMO, I agree that you should make every effort to contact the holder of the copyright when using a trademark or copyrighted image. From a practical standpoint, I wouldn't let that stop me or worry me overmuch in most cases of skin art. The real reason people are sued for copyright or trademark violation is when:
A) You profit or attempt to profit by selling goods which use the copyrighted image or trademark without consent of the holder of the rights.
You use the copyrighted or trademarked image in such a way as to state or imply an association with or endorsement by the holder of the rights which does not exist. Profit or attempt to profit is not a necessary component of this offense.
C) You use the copyrighted or trademarked image in such a way as to reflect discredit on the holder of the rights or in a manner which would damage the reputation, image, or marketability of products for sale by merchants using the image with the permission or license of the holder of the rights.
I'll grant anyone who wishes to argue the point that these are not the only reasons why you may be sued or the only possible violations of US law in this area. But for all practical purposes, these are the main areas in which actual damages can be assessed (money calculated) and that's the main reason you get sued. Beyond that the worst that will normally happen is being ordered to remove it from public display.
I hope this helps clear things up a little.
Having said that, IMO, I agree that you should make every effort to contact the holder of the copyright when using a trademark or copyrighted image. From a practical standpoint, I wouldn't let that stop me or worry me overmuch in most cases of skin art. The real reason people are sued for copyright or trademark violation is when:
A) You profit or attempt to profit by selling goods which use the copyrighted image or trademark without consent of the holder of the rights.
You use the copyrighted or trademarked image in such a way as to state or imply an association with or endorsement by the holder of the rights which does not exist. Profit or attempt to profit is not a necessary component of this offense.C) You use the copyrighted or trademarked image in such a way as to reflect discredit on the holder of the rights or in a manner which would damage the reputation, image, or marketability of products for sale by merchants using the image with the permission or license of the holder of the rights.
I'll grant anyone who wishes to argue the point that these are not the only reasons why you may be sued or the only possible violations of US law in this area. But for all practical purposes, these are the main areas in which actual damages can be assessed (money calculated) and that's the main reason you get sued. Beyond that the worst that will normally happen is being ordered to remove it from public display.
I hope this helps clear things up a little.
joetheblow
Reply #14 Saturday, November 15, 2003 11:15 PM
you got that right!
I am still trying to figure out what to take out of my Deviant Art account
http://joetheblow.deviantart.com
Reply #14 Saturday, November 15, 2003 11:15 PM
| #1 by Sir Hus - 11/15/2003 9:28:37 PM Technically...you're right Crissy. But where do you draw the line between copyright vio. and fan art? Much harder question to answer... |
you got that right!
I am still trying to figure out what to take out of my Deviant Art account
http://joetheblow.deviantart.com
bakerstreet
Reply #15 Saturday, November 15, 2003 11:51 PM
Reply #15 Saturday, November 15, 2003 11:51 PM
There is really no logic to WC's system. It is pretty easy to find pop culture stuff that is publicly forbidden by the owners. Almost every piece of software you get forbids the alteration and redistribution of their icons, and yet you can 'Aqua' them up and upload them here with no hindrance. The question here seems to be "Do they really *mean* it?"
I respect the whole crew, but copyright/trademark moderation is completely arbitrary. It depends on who is moderating at the time, which section, and who the uploader is. The last time I tried to do anything about it I stormed off never to return...
Funny, that. Anyway, I'm over it. My pride is tempered by my sad need to associate.
The copyright/trademark owners seem to tolerate 'fan-art' they perceive to be good for them. They want their brand visible and at the same time don't want anyone to benefit from it. If you are really concerned with something, my suggestion would be to email the folks here, and if nothing happens email the trademark/copyright owner. I think you'll find that you are the only one that cares 99.9% of the time. The recurrent curse of threads like this is punishment enough, I guess.
Explanations that make sense won't be forthcoming at WC. I can vouch for those who opt to bear a torch, 'tolerate it or leave' is, sadly, the only option.
[Message Edited]
I respect the whole crew, but copyright/trademark moderation is completely arbitrary. It depends on who is moderating at the time, which section, and who the uploader is. The last time I tried to do anything about it I stormed off never to return...
Funny, that. Anyway, I'm over it. My pride is tempered by my sad need to associate.The copyright/trademark owners seem to tolerate 'fan-art' they perceive to be good for them. They want their brand visible and at the same time don't want anyone to benefit from it. If you are really concerned with something, my suggestion would be to email the folks here, and if nothing happens email the trademark/copyright owner. I think you'll find that you are the only one that cares 99.9% of the time. The recurrent curse of threads like this is punishment enough, I guess.
Explanations that make sense won't be forthcoming at WC. I can vouch for those who opt to bear a torch, 'tolerate it or leave' is, sadly, the only option.
[Message Edited]
joetheblow
Reply #16 Sunday, November 16, 2003 12:05 AM
I think that is part of the problem then.
Why is it that when I contact the copyright holder I get a return email saying basically 'who cares? what is the problem?' or just a 'I don't understand why your contacting us, if your not selling it what the big deal?'
...sometimes I don't know if I am talking to a kid or a lawyer who doesn't care!
Looking at the use policies it would seem that they can inact them at any time but choose not too... or don't care unless it involves money.
I don't know... anyone here how works as a lawyer?
Reply #16 Sunday, November 16, 2003 12:05 AM
| The copyright/trademark owners seem to tolerate 'fan-art' they perceive to be good for them. They want their brand visible and at the same time don't want anyone to benefit from it. If you are really concerned with something, my suggestion would be to email the folks here, and if nothing happens email the trademark/copyright owner. I think you'll find that you are the only one that cares 99.9% of the time. |
I think that is part of the problem then.
Why is it that when I contact the copyright holder I get a return email saying basically 'who cares? what is the problem?' or just a 'I don't understand why your contacting us, if your not selling it what the big deal?'
...sometimes I don't know if I am talking to a kid or a lawyer who doesn't care!
Looking at the use policies it would seem that they can inact them at any time but choose not too... or don't care unless it involves money.
I don't know... anyone here how works as a lawyer?
yrag
Reply #17 Sunday, November 16, 2003 12:09 AM
..what do you want to know?
Reply #17 Sunday, November 16, 2003 12:09 AM
| don't know... anyone here how works as a lawyer? |
..what do you want to know?
Tech-Cat
Reply #18 Sunday, November 16, 2003 12:10 AM
Reply #18 Sunday, November 16, 2003 12:10 AM
If I were to create any kind of "fan-art", I think I would only stick to creating Nintendo "fan-art" since they do encourage "fan-art" at their website by linking to personal websites with Nintendo fan-art and asking visitors to send their links to their "fan-art". They also encourage "fan-art" in Nintendo Power magazine by publishing their favorite "fan-art" submissions that was recieved over the last month.
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joetheblow
Reply #19 Sunday, November 16, 2003 12:12 AM
Everything state above to be precise. What do companies mean by using their images? How do they apply it?
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Reply #19 Sunday, November 16, 2003 12:12 AM
| #17 by yrag - 11/16/2003 12:09:59 AM don't know... anyone here now works as a lawyer? ..what do you want to know? |
Everything state above to be precise. What do companies mean by using their images? How do they apply it?
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joetheblow
Reply #20 Sunday, November 16, 2003 12:14 AM
... and Warner Brothers doesn't?
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Reply #20 Sunday, November 16, 2003 12:14 AM
| #18 by Sir Tech Cat - 11/16/2003 12:10:56 AM If I were to create any kind of "fan-art", I think I would only stick to creating Nintendo "fan-art" since they do encourage "fan-art" at their website by linking to personal websites with Nintendo fan-art and asking visitors to send their links to their "fan-art". They also encourage "fan-art" in Nintendo Power magazine by publishing their favorite "fan-art" submissions that was recieved over the last month. |
... and Warner Brothers doesn't?
[Message Edited]
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Reply #1 Saturday, November 15, 2003 9:28 PM