Creation vs. Evolution
Thursday, September 11, 2003 by grayhaze | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I thought I'd pre-empt this discussion before Kona's comment in the other thread sparked it off there. There is concrete proof that we evolved, but no proof that we were created. What's you're opinion, and why?
To quote Phoebe from Friends: "I guess the real question is who put those fossils there and why?"
To quote Phoebe from Friends: "I guess the real question is who put those fossils there and why?"
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joetheblow
Reply #982 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 1:46 PM
Reply #982 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 1:46 PM
Well!!!
I am glad I didn't invite anyone to my wonderful church.
H'umph! I say 2 H'umphs
Long live The Q
Copyright 1973
I am glad I didn't invite anyone to my wonderful church.
H'umph! I say 2 H'umphs
Long live The Q
Copyright 1973
Doreen
Reply #983 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 2:25 PM
Reply #983 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 2:25 PM
hehe Matt! God is chasing you! hehe
better grab his IP address...
and Baker anytime creation is a topic I would think the next words following typed would be evolution and then God and Religion
(to be expected)
better grab his IP address...
and Baker anytime creation is a topic I would think the next words following typed would be evolution and then God and Religion
(to be expected)
MadIce
Reply #985 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 2:44 PM
Reply #985 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 2:44 PM
Maybe we need an additional law against religious spamming? 
Doreen
Reply #986 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 2:48 PM
Reply #986 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 2:48 PM
well that would not even surprise me... hehe
but first they better focus on the buy Viagra online & make your penis bigger spams first! hehe!
but first they better focus on the buy Viagra online & make your penis bigger spams first! hehe!
MadIce
Reply #987 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:08 PM
Reply #987 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:08 PM
Madam... Words of that kind... And from your mouth... Naughty
IPlural
Reply #988 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:16 PM
Reply #988 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:16 PM
how about those school boys in the UK who took the Viagra at school and ended up in Hospital, well having a throbbing hard time of it in so many words! 
Doreen
Reply #989 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:19 PM
Reply #989 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 3:19 PM
oh no I said the word penis I'm going to hell! hehe
r3fr
Reply #991 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 4:33 PM
That from a non-JW...
This from a JW: No, my life is controlled by me. I make my own decisions. I choose to serve God according to how the rest of the JWs do. The site you posted tells lies. The only site that truely tells of our activities is our own.
In my religion, when people commit a serious sin they are disciplined. They may be talked to by the elders and disfellowshipped. Why we're told not to talk to the disfellowshipped person is because they might get us to think the way they are. A Scripture some of you may know is 1 Corithians 15:33 which says: "Do not be mislead. Bad associations spoil useful habits." How true it is.
No, it is a personal choice, but one of the decisions we strongly recommend you take. It is a difficult decision, but we know we will see them again in paradise, if they do die. As for the advanceds in technology, we no longer have to make that choice.
No programming, you just got that from a website.
Punishing in the afterlife? I guess you mean in the paradise earth? In the paradise earth, everyone will be perfect so there will be no need for punishment. Thats not even a teaching of ours, the punishing in afterlife. Also, and it does make a difference, but we don't have a 'church,' but a Kingdom Hall.
With the 'facts' you've read, yes, we could be considered a cult, but if you get the FACTS, then you're conclusion may be very different. To get the facts, go to the OFFICIAL website www.watchtower.org and not some other website that tells lies.
Reply #991 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 4:33 PM
| The Jehovah's Witness hierarchy has the tools in place to punish, shun and isolate those that threaten their power, openly question doctrine, and cause 'dissent'. They are in charge of the lives of their members. |
That from a non-JW...
This from a JW: No, my life is controlled by me. I make my own decisions. I choose to serve God according to how the rest of the JWs do. The site you posted tells lies. The only site that truely tells of our activities is our own.
| From their own site: Link and other examples of the JW isolation practice and 'spin': |
In my religion, when people commit a serious sin they are disciplined. They may be talked to by the elders and disfellowshipped. Why we're told not to talk to the disfellowshipped person is because they might get us to think the way they are. A Scripture some of you may know is 1 Corithians 15:33 which says: "Do not be mislead. Bad associations spoil useful habits." How true it is.
| A black and white example: As a Jehovah's Witness, if the only means of saving the life of your child is a blood transfusion you must refuse. You are required to watch your child die. R3fr will call it a "personal choice", but not when you consider the methods above. Participation in the church *requires* a decision that is psychologically difficult after years of such psychological programming. As your secular and religious authority, they can shun you from family and friends, and even punish you in the afterlife. This is not a "personal choice". |
No, it is a personal choice, but one of the decisions we strongly recommend you take. It is a difficult decision, but we know we will see them again in paradise, if they do die. As for the advanceds in technology, we no longer have to make that choice.
No programming, you just got that from a website.
Punishing in the afterlife? I guess you mean in the paradise earth? In the paradise earth, everyone will be perfect so there will be no need for punishment. Thats not even a teaching of ours, the punishing in afterlife. Also, and it does make a difference, but we don't have a 'church,' but a Kingdom Hall.
| In my opinion the Jehovah's Witnesses are solidly a cult. |
With the 'facts' you've read, yes, we could be considered a cult, but if you get the FACTS, then you're conclusion may be very different. To get the facts, go to the OFFICIAL website www.watchtower.org and not some other website that tells lies.
r3fr
Reply #992 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 4:36 PM
Look at yourselves.
Reply #992 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 4:36 PM
| oh no I said the word penis I'm going to hell! hehe Doreen |
Look at yourselves.
IPlural
Reply #993 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 4:45 PM
Reply #993 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 4:45 PM
why?
What do you see that I do not?
Then I would like to ask, why should I care?
You have your religious beliefs and I will not single you out and vilify you for them, don't presume to do that to me for not accepting yours as my own truths and reality.
Thats the point, stop preaching.
[Message Edited]
What do you see that I do not?
Then I would like to ask, why should I care?
You have your religious beliefs and I will not single you out and vilify you for them, don't presume to do that to me for not accepting yours as my own truths and reality.
Thats the point, stop preaching.
[Message Edited]
Doreen
Reply #994 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 4:56 PM
Reply #994 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 4:56 PM
Look at yourselves.
992 by Citizen r3fr - 11/4/2003 4:36:22 PM
Doreen grabs a mirror to look at herself
if saying the word penis will actually send ppl to hell then we're all in big trouble, I can however think of lots of other words that might qualify me though...
and me will try to stay out of this thread, before I get into trouble *sigh*
[Message Edited]
992 by Citizen r3fr - 11/4/2003 4:36:22 PM
Doreen grabs a mirror to look at herself
if saying the word penis will actually send ppl to hell then we're all in big trouble, I can however think of lots of other words that might qualify me though...
and me will try to stay out of this thread, before I get into trouble *sigh*
[Message Edited]
MadIce
Reply #995 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 5:02 PM
Reply #995 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 5:02 PM
Don't worry. If they send all those people to hell, we'll have a hell of a good time there.
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
joetheblow
Reply #996 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 5:12 PM
Reply #996 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 5:12 PM
Hey MadIce, I was wondering, what did the persons post have to do with your post about quantum computing?
No offense but it has always been clear to me that the pressure is on you to follow the beliefs of JW. So if that is your only option to get a blood transfusion because other methods have been tried and failed or shown to not work in a particular case of the patient what do you do?
Is it really a choice? Loose the family of people you love and care for in your church? To feel shunned?
I do not pretend to think that other religions do not have such 'rules' as to how to make a choice but even my friends do not have an answer for that. One in particular does not care what people think about her so her choice was easy.
As I have written before, the Bible seems to be interpreted in many different fashions. If you can not admit that others can not be just as passionate about how it 'should' be done and how (much like you) feel that they are right then there really isn't much to debate.
You will surround yourself with like minded people that never challenge ideas, interpretations, understandings or the experts.
How exactly is there to be spiritual growth without opposing opinions?
I do not say there is any true religion but those who allow individual thought and growth without 'nagging points' or 'mental games' are usually the best.
Now about Creation....
| No, it is a personal choice, but one of the decisions we strongly recommend you take. It is a difficult decision, but we know we will see them again in paradise, if they do die. As for the advanceds in technology, we no longer have to make that choice. |
No offense but it has always been clear to me that the pressure is on you to follow the beliefs of JW. So if that is your only option to get a blood transfusion because other methods have been tried and failed or shown to not work in a particular case of the patient what do you do?
Is it really a choice? Loose the family of people you love and care for in your church? To feel shunned?
I do not pretend to think that other religions do not have such 'rules' as to how to make a choice but even my friends do not have an answer for that. One in particular does not care what people think about her so her choice was easy.
As I have written before, the Bible seems to be interpreted in many different fashions. If you can not admit that others can not be just as passionate about how it 'should' be done and how (much like you) feel that they are right then there really isn't much to debate.
You will surround yourself with like minded people that never challenge ideas, interpretations, understandings or the experts.
How exactly is there to be spiritual growth without opposing opinions?
I do not say there is any true religion but those who allow individual thought and growth without 'nagging points' or 'mental games' are usually the best.
Now about Creation....
MadIce
Reply #997 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 5:15 PM
Reply #997 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 5:15 PM
joetheblow: Nothing at all. In the other thread it was identical. That was a political thread. So, to me it was a clear case of religious spamming.
bakerstreet
Reply #999 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 5:23 PM
Reply #999 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 5:23 PM
R3fr: , such lies. It isn't a personal choice if you are punished for it. That would be like saying Armed Robbery is just a personal choice for the average US citizen. If a JW takes a blood transfusion they lose their peers and possibly family. The same has been done to people who are forced to go outside the church to report child molestation.
When someone is shunned by the Jehovah's Witnesses, the remaining JWs are *compelled* not to have contact, even with family. If they do, they can be shunned as well. This isn't an easy choice either when you are brainwashed. This is administration by isolation and fear. It is a classic example of cultish control; the main symptom of it, actually. Separate people, indoctrinate them, and then they must obey unquestioningly or face expulsion and loss of their friends and family. Shameful and sick. It prevents cultish religions from having light shed on their cultishness.
Rules like this only protect people who abuse power, and they are indicative of shallow beliefs that wouldn't stand up without them. I have no use for any belief that takes this much control to keep its sheep in line.
, such lies. It isn't a personal choice if you are punished for it. That would be like saying Armed Robbery is just a personal choice for the average US citizen. If a JW takes a blood transfusion they lose their peers and possibly family. The same has been done to people who are forced to go outside the church to report child molestation.When someone is shunned by the Jehovah's Witnesses, the remaining JWs are *compelled* not to have contact, even with family. If they do, they can be shunned as well. This isn't an easy choice either when you are brainwashed. This is administration by isolation and fear. It is a classic example of cultish control; the main symptom of it, actually. Separate people, indoctrinate them, and then they must obey unquestioningly or face expulsion and loss of their friends and family. Shameful and sick. It prevents cultish religions from having light shed on their cultishness.
Rules like this only protect people who abuse power, and they are indicative of shallow beliefs that wouldn't stand up without them. I have no use for any belief that takes this much control to keep its sheep in line.
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Reply #981 Tuesday, November 4, 2003 12:54 PM
This is a quote from his text:
This was my resonse: