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Donationware - should you pay the author for their skins? (discuss)
Monday, August 11, 2003 by retiredmaster | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Like a few other designers, I've added a 'donate' link on my latest skin.
To be honest, I don't expect anyone to donate for downloading a skin I've designed - I do them because I enjoy doing them, and people can download them for free.
However, there comes a time when you have to consider just how long you end up working on these things. I daren't add the hours up! And the more WindowBlinds is developed, the bigger the job of completing a skin becomes. I look on a donation as a personal thank you from the user for _all_ the skins I've done in the past, and I have 51 on WinCustomize at the moment. Although it won't mean that I start doing 'premium' skins (unless I'm specifically contracted to make one), it does help to keep the enthusiasm going.
Just as an example, my wife, who's hobby is needlecraft, just downloaded a pattern for some cross-stitch picture she wants to make, and it cost $10. The quality is good and the picture is nice - so it doesn't seem to be a lot to pay. Skins, on the other hand, don't have any other outlet than on the internet, so there is nowhere to compare prices.
So, the question is - is it bad to ask for donations?
To be honest, I don't expect anyone to donate for downloading a skin I've designed - I do them because I enjoy doing them, and people can download them for free.
However, there comes a time when you have to consider just how long you end up working on these things. I daren't add the hours up! And the more WindowBlinds is developed, the bigger the job of completing a skin becomes. I look on a donation as a personal thank you from the user for _all_ the skins I've done in the past, and I have 51 on WinCustomize at the moment. Although it won't mean that I start doing 'premium' skins (unless I'm specifically contracted to make one), it does help to keep the enthusiasm going.
Just as an example, my wife, who's hobby is needlecraft, just downloaded a pattern for some cross-stitch picture she wants to make, and it cost $10. The quality is good and the picture is nice - so it doesn't seem to be a lot to pay. Skins, on the other hand, don't have any other outlet than on the internet, so there is nowhere to compare prices.
So, the question is - is it bad to ask for donations?
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TasT
Reply #22 Monday, August 11, 2003 4:20 PM
Reply #22 Monday, August 11, 2003 4:20 PM
Essorant-
Ask for donations but don't expect a cent.
You by far have the smoothest WB skins and have had for quite some time, I would suggest working with a topnotch icon guy such as mormegil and developing some mini suites of skins, WB,IP,OD, wall, and maybe a few more apps.
I have never paid for a skin except for Mormegil's Icons and will not pay for the flashy system skins, but an essorant skin such as seer I would definatly pay for if it had some Icons and stuff with it...
Ask for donations but don't expect a cent.
You by far have the smoothest WB skins and have had for quite some time, I would suggest working with a topnotch icon guy such as mormegil and developing some mini suites of skins, WB,IP,OD, wall, and maybe a few more apps.
I have never paid for a skin except for Mormegil's Icons and will not pay for the flashy system skins, but an essorant skin such as seer I would definatly pay for if it had some Icons and stuff with it...
IPlural
Reply #23 Monday, August 11, 2003 6:57 PM
Reply #23 Monday, August 11, 2003 6:57 PM
Bit thats how donation work isn't it? You ask in the hope but do not put to much need into it?
Russ has it down and I totally agree, though it is a sad commentary on how people approach donating on a personal level
Russ has it down and I totally agree, though it is a sad commentary on how people approach donating on a personal level
virophile
Reply #24 Monday, August 11, 2003 8:25 PM
Reply #24 Monday, August 11, 2003 8:25 PM
i wouldn't mind if everyone charged for skins, depending on a couple things. first off, how talented you are and how long it took doesn't matter much to me (not saying i do not notice or appreciate effort or creativity here) but if you want to charge 10$ for something that obviously didn't take much effort i am sure people will see and most likely not buy it, just like most products. second small freeware apps i just don't think should be used to make a profit on, i just don't think it is fair, 9 out of 10 times they are simple to skin and i would like to think skinning it freely as part of a suite in a way is a lil thank you to the developer. (like how pixtudio and skinplant approach it)
the only problem i see really is when skins become merchandise i think is ideas and concepts start becoming more protected (like the color changing script in the skinsfactory's latest wmp for example) not a bad thing though, in the end i think we all win
there is always going to be free skins so if you never want to pay for a skin that's fine too
oops and to the original topic of donation, i think it is actually a very noble way to approach it, i just wish i was more sure you will get what you feel you deserve out of it
the only problem i see really is when skins become merchandise i think is ideas and concepts start becoming more protected (like the color changing script in the skinsfactory's latest wmp for example) not a bad thing though, in the end i think we all win
there is always going to be free skins so if you never want to pay for a skin that's fine too
oops and to the original topic of donation, i think it is actually a very noble way to approach it, i just wish i was more sure you will get what you feel you deserve out of it
Old_Crab
Reply #25 Monday, August 11, 2003 11:30 PM
Reply #25 Monday, August 11, 2003 11:30 PM
Old Crab has downloaded and appreciated every skin done by essorant. They are fast, well made and updated too. You could alway bundle all up and sell them that way. I personally see no reason not to expect to pay for skin suites or an exceptionally well made skin. I'll be over at your site as soon as I can, and this time I'll look for the donate button. > 
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
retiredmaster
Reply #26 Tuesday, August 12, 2003 1:55 AM
Reply #26 Tuesday, August 12, 2003 1:55 AM
Hi Russ - nice to hear from you (hope you are well etc.)
I agree with your points. I think that if you are asking for donations then you have to be pragmatic about it and keep your expectations low. It might be better to consider anything you receive as a 'gift'. As for self esteem, I think it's down to the individual. I would probably rely more on what people said about my work in comments and emails than base my feelings on the few donations I might receive.
It seems unlikely that you would make a lot of money from donations. Certainly nothing that would equal the amount of hours you would work designing a skin.
I agree with your points. I think that if you are asking for donations then you have to be pragmatic about it and keep your expectations low. It might be better to consider anything you receive as a 'gift'. As for self esteem, I think it's down to the individual. I would probably rely more on what people said about my work in comments and emails than base my feelings on the few donations I might receive.
It seems unlikely that you would make a lot of money from donations. Certainly nothing that would equal the amount of hours you would work designing a skin.
retiredmaster
Reply #27 Tuesday, August 12, 2003 1:58 AM
Reply #27 Tuesday, August 12, 2003 1:58 AM
Can I make a quick point here before this goes on any further:
Please don't think that this thread was designed to encourage anyone to donate! That wasn't the intention at all.
It's your point of view that I was after.
Please don't think that this thread was designed to encourage anyone to donate! That wasn't the intention at all.
It's your point of view that I was after.
IPlural
Reply #28 Tuesday, August 12, 2003 2:13 AM
Reply #28 Tuesday, August 12, 2003 2:13 AM
For the most part I think everyone knows it, essorant
I've got to wait until Monday next week, I promissed my wife I would wait for a check from WV client before using my card again
I've got to wait until Monday next week, I promissed my wife I would wait for a check from WV client before using my card again
Weaksid
Reply #29 Tuesday, August 12, 2003 2:17 AM
I wish more people would comment on some of the work. You look and you could have over 500 downloads and only 3 comments. It would be nice for feedback from more people. Like how to make it better, what they like about it, or even how to make it better.
Reply #29 Tuesday, August 12, 2003 2:17 AM
| #26 essorant - I would probably rely more on what people said about my work in comments and emails than base my feelings on the few donations I might receive. |
I wish more people would comment on some of the work. You look and you could have over 500 downloads and only 3 comments. It would be nice for feedback from more people. Like how to make it better, what they like about it, or even how to make it better.
honz12
Reply #30 Tuesday, August 12, 2003 4:25 AM
Reply #30 Tuesday, August 12, 2003 4:25 AM
Russ is correct. If the option is there for a donation or you can get it for free and move on then the latter option is always the case.
I just recently put a donatin button on my site. Been there for a few months now and haven't received a penny. I didn't expect to receive a penny either, but at least the button is there to make the downloaders have a moral dilema before they take the goods.
As I said above I haven't received a penny so far. Only money I have made from my skins is from some commercial software firm who wanted to use one of my skins in their product.
I'm with Russ, I'd also like to hear of success stories with donations.
I just recently put a donatin button on my site. Been there for a few months now and haven't received a penny. I didn't expect to receive a penny either, but at least the button is there to make the downloaders have a moral dilema before they take the goods.
As I said above I haven't received a penny so far. Only money I have made from my skins is from some commercial software firm who wanted to use one of my skins in their product.
I'm with Russ, I'd also like to hear of success stories with donations.
coriander
Reply #31 Tuesday, August 12, 2003 4:48 AM
Reply #31 Tuesday, August 12, 2003 4:48 AM
Have not been around long enough to figure out who is "old and venerable" etcetera but thought I would add my 1Cent (a newbie and Canadian so currency deflated).
1. Re Comments: I often do not comment right away as I need to run the skin for some time before I even feel entitled to say something. Also, am lacking in meaningful commentary because of total lack of knowledge. Not sure if "gee, this is really nice" is appreciated or not! I have been trying to go back to those authors whose works keep showing up on the desk to say thanks. Essorant, I remember discovering that you were the author of one or two that I loved, did a search on your name and ended up dl nearly all of them!
2. Donations: I see nothing morally or ethically wrong in asking for same but think that a suggested guideline might be helpful. I would be afraid that too small a sum would be seen as an insult so would end up giving nothing rather than give offence. On the other hand, wouldn't want to guess at what would be appropriate and would feel irritated at having to do so.
3.My first reaction at finding this site was sheer astonishment that so many gave so much for nothing! Exactly how I feel about the people who donate quality time to newsgroups and libraries! I usually try to give back "in kind" but as I doubt I will ever produce a skin in my life, money (donation) is an honourable alternative.
1. Re Comments: I often do not comment right away as I need to run the skin for some time before I even feel entitled to say something. Also, am lacking in meaningful commentary because of total lack of knowledge. Not sure if "gee, this is really nice" is appreciated or not! I have been trying to go back to those authors whose works keep showing up on the desk to say thanks. Essorant, I remember discovering that you were the author of one or two that I loved, did a search on your name and ended up dl nearly all of them!
2. Donations: I see nothing morally or ethically wrong in asking for same but think that a suggested guideline might be helpful. I would be afraid that too small a sum would be seen as an insult so would end up giving nothing rather than give offence. On the other hand, wouldn't want to guess at what would be appropriate and would feel irritated at having to do so.
3.My first reaction at finding this site was sheer astonishment that so many gave so much for nothing! Exactly how I feel about the people who donate quality time to newsgroups and libraries! I usually try to give back "in kind" but as I doubt I will ever produce a skin in my life, money (donation) is an honourable alternative.
retiredmaster
Reply #32 Tuesday, August 12, 2003 5:32 AM
Reply #32 Tuesday, August 12, 2003 5:32 AM
Interesting point about the amount. I have a similar problem when people ask what my 'rates' are for design work. I'm not a professional, nor do I have any qualifications in the design area, so I don't feel comfortable about charging 'professional' rates. Having said that, I try to be clear about the limitations of what I'm able to produce and charge accordingly.
To my mind, the idea of a donation is that it is up to the donor to decide on an amount which they relate to the worth of the product. Unless the author has suggested an amount, then they shouldn't be offended at what has been donated - whatever the amount (although, say, $1 might be seen as a little stingy!)
My personal opinion is this:
For the skins I've posted - download, use, enjoy. If you feel like you want to show your appreciation, then comment, send me an email, or donate. It is totally up to you. I'm not offended if you don't do any of those - after all, I don't comment on the majority of skins myself (tut tut!) - a dontation is a bonus.
For designs for a purpose (i.e. a 'job'), we can discuss charges. Therefore, if I really wanted to earn money from skinning, I would stop posting skins for free and only release them for a charge.
To my mind, the idea of a donation is that it is up to the donor to decide on an amount which they relate to the worth of the product. Unless the author has suggested an amount, then they shouldn't be offended at what has been donated - whatever the amount (although, say, $1 might be seen as a little stingy!)
My personal opinion is this:
For the skins I've posted - download, use, enjoy. If you feel like you want to show your appreciation, then comment, send me an email, or donate. It is totally up to you. I'm not offended if you don't do any of those - after all, I don't comment on the majority of skins myself (tut tut!) - a dontation is a bonus.
For designs for a purpose (i.e. a 'job'), we can discuss charges. Therefore, if I really wanted to earn money from skinning, I would stop posting skins for free and only release them for a charge.
Weaksid
Reply #33 Tuesday, August 12, 2003 6:18 AM
Reply #33 Tuesday, August 12, 2003 6:18 AM
I've found out a rule on this. If it's your hobby, don't make it into work. You can usually get more out of a hobby in enjoyment then work. Now, if your hobby seems to make you some money here and there then it's defiantly a bonus. A hobby is there mainly to relieve stress. Most of the skinners and designers on this site enjoy the pleasure of creating graphics, skins, icons, etc for fun. It releases pleasure chemicals in the brain.
Going to the work topic along with the hobby issue. I believe in the idea of not advertising to a certain limit. If your work is that good, people and money will come to you. You just lay down the environment for the money to come to you.
Ok, I'll stop now till I can think straight later. It's 9am in the morning. I need some morning caffeine. The diet of a computer person "Pizza and Soda". But I'm actually going outside today. I need to pull some weeds for a couple $. It will give me fresh air, exercise (something I'm lacking), and pizza/soda money. 
I think in conclusion to what I was trying to say is. If it's your hobby and you enjoy it. Don't pressure people to buy it. Unless you want to try the idea of what was said by somebody. You could create high quality suites or icon sets. Things around there. Try to sell them and see what happens. The donation button would also be there for those that are willing to help the creator out. Plus if your that good, the money will eventually come to you if you create the right environment with your hobby.
Going to the work topic along with the hobby issue. I believe in the idea of not advertising to a certain limit. If your work is that good, people and money will come to you. You just lay down the environment for the money to come to you.
Ok, I'll stop now till I can think straight later. It's 9am in the morning. I need some morning caffeine. The diet of a computer person "Pizza and Soda"
. But I'm actually going outside today. I need to pull some weeds for a couple $. It will give me fresh air, exercise (something I'm lacking), and pizza/soda money. 
I think in conclusion to what I was trying to say is. If it's your hobby and you enjoy it. Don't pressure people to buy it. Unless you want to try the idea of what was said by somebody. You could create high quality suites or icon sets. Things around there. Try to sell them and see what happens. The donation button would also be there for those that are willing to help the creator out. Plus if your that good, the money will eventually come to you if you create the right environment with your hobby.
Styl-X Design
Reply #34 Tuesday, August 12, 2003 7:57 AM
Reply #34 Tuesday, August 12, 2003 7:57 AM
Weaksid, I do agree with your point, as designing is my 'hobby' Its ok, and making a job of it wouldn't be smart at all (as I don't have that much knowledge and have too learn much)
However, since I have launched styl-x, I have already completed 2 payed jobs, and am working on my 3rd.
(btw, what do you think are fair prices to ask for 'themes'? I asked 75$ for it when I did one for Coca Cola Amatil. )
However, since I have launched styl-x, I have already completed 2 payed jobs, and am working on my 3rd.
(btw, what do you think are fair prices to ask for 'themes'? I asked 75$ for it when I did one for Coca Cola Amatil. )
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Reply #21 Monday, August 11, 2003 3:10 PM
I am just speaking for myself here, but your guiltless approach works much better with me than the others mentioned above.
Generally speaking: there is certainly nothing wrong with someone as well known and experienced as you asking for donations.