Donationware - should you pay the author for their skins? (discuss)

Monday, August 11, 2003 by retiredmaster | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk

Like a few other designers, I've added a 'donate' link on my latest skin.

To be honest, I don't expect anyone to donate for downloading a skin I've designed - I do them because I enjoy doing them, and people can download them for free.

However, there comes a time when you have to consider just how long you end up working on these things. I daren't add the hours up! And the more WindowBlinds is developed, the bigger the job of completing a skin becomes. I look on a donation as a personal thank you from the user for _all_ the skins I've done in the past, and I have 51 on WinCustomize at the moment. Although it won't mean that I start doing 'premium' skins (unless I'm specifically contracted to make one), it does help to keep the enthusiasm going.

Just as an example, my wife, who's hobby is needlecraft, just downloaded a pattern for some cross-stitch picture she wants to make, and it cost $10. The quality is good and the picture is nice - so it doesn't seem to be a lot to pay. Skins, on the other hand, don't have any other outlet than on the internet, so there is nowhere to compare prices.

So, the question is - is it bad to ask for donations?
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Weaksid
Reply #1 Monday, August 11, 2003 3:13 AM
I personally don't see a problem with it. You should get a little something for your hard work. I've seen sites and that's all they ask for. I saw this one site that they even ask for people to send beer.

I only think people that have been doing this for a while and have supreme work do this. Not people that just start and think it's a fast break to get money. I saw your ID# and I know you've been doing this for a while .

I say go ahead and do it. Plus if you have a site and have your work on it. I say put it on there too.

MarkMcQ
Reply #2 Monday, August 11, 2003 3:17 AM
So, the question is - is it bad to ask for donations?


Certainly not.
People are happy to shell out big bucks for all the software to customize various parts of their OS, but then they adopt this attitude that other users should then provide them with the skin, etc for it for free.
While I appreciate skin authors who freely share their work with others, I think they're within their right to charge/ask for donations.

At Skinplant, we've had our share of whining people complaining about the skins we sell.
Fact is though, we've only made one premium suite so far, and 3 free suites.

And overall, your skins are some of the best WB skin being made. There's very few folk making skins of such a high quality. (Take Jinx for example, that's an excellent piece).

retiredmaster
Reply #3 Monday, August 11, 2003 3:37 AM
Fact is though, we've only made one premium suite so far, and 3 free suites.


...not to mention all the top quality free skins you have contributed over the years. It's good to see that you have the opportunity to get something back for your efforts, and I hope you are being successful.

(...communal back-slapping commences)

Styl-X Design
Reply #4 Monday, August 11, 2003 3:43 AM
Answere:
skinner says: good thing,
user says: bad thing.

Personaly don't see any problem with it, if they don't want to buy it, then they just have to take another suite, hippy gave a good example, they have 3 'alternative' suites, and pixtudio too, they come with great suites, and sell a few of them (think 4 or something while they have about 40 suites)


Styl-X Design
Reply #5 Monday, August 11, 2003 3:48 AM
btw: there are pretty much 'skinning' site with 'donation' links to paypall, are there really that much people who are going to donate 5-10$ ?

IPlural
Reply #6 Monday, August 11, 2003 4:21 AM
Having to create my first skin (working on it) I consider myself a user and if you look at my stat's you will see I have downloaded an enormous number of skins, icons, themes. Mostly to look through on off times and pick through things to keep, gain ideas and tear into how people are doing it.

Paying a donation isn't a problem and shouldn't be for users. Consider a donation of say 10 or 15 dollars to someone whos skins you make use of is more than fair.

I fear there is a Now and Free mentality because some people see it as the norm and others see it as some kind of religious quest while some ohers do not really have the extra to put out at any given moment.

norm: but it's always been free, just because I have every skin you have ever produced on my system doesn't mean I want to pay for anything, I mean geesh if I wanted to pay I would buy professional skins/themes/icon packs...

quest: If it costs money I will steal it and bitch about my right to have it for free because of the sick way that everyone wants to charge for something I can steal.

lacking funds: hard to say, some will without a doubt when they can others won't no matter what.

I'll donate for sure as I have every single thing you have submited and this also reminds me that I owe a donation to another skinner which I promised it to...

P.S. Some are so ignorant about that everything free crap they will barrow a tool, break it and either never return it or return it broken and claim you gave them a faulty tool to begin with, go figure... one lives next door

Styl-X Design
Reply #7 Monday, August 11, 2003 4:32 AM
yeah, I gues you're right IP+, but for the donation thing, I think you should ask a 'small'charge for a skin, instead of the choise to people to donate a 'big' amount of money, for example, 1 per 100 people makes a donation of 10 $, you could better let all people pay 0.10$ right? or ofcourse let ehm all pay 10 $

yossell
Reply #8 Monday, August 11, 2003 5:26 AM
All you are doing is letting people make a donation - I don't see how anyone could rationally object to that. Of course, of course, I know that a lot of people do - but I do think that this 'because it's on the web I should get it for nothing' attitude has to change.

My only worry is: I'm not sure whether many people will give a donation for something that is legally and permissibly available for free. I think that Grayhaze had a thread here recently bemoaning the lack of donations. I personally preferred to show my support to Pixtudio, say, by buying one of their premium suites. That way, I'd felt I'd made a contribution, but also got something groovy out of it too.

Unfortunately, charging for anything does raise wrong righteous wrath from the freeloaders...so I know why you might hesitate.

(oh yeah - and while I'm here: great, great work on those skins)



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Gregory2001
Reply #9 Monday, August 11, 2003 6:03 AM
I think instead of asking for a donation, it's better to just charge a fee (like Pixtudio or Skinplant). I've bought them all because I know they're worth it. A donation is something you really don't have to do so most people won't. Because you're well-known, people will pay for it (like Pixtudio or Skinplant).

knatzz
Reply #10 Monday, August 11, 2003 6:10 AM
I think that asking for donations is a great idea. I'm sure you'll get some grief from the "free beer" crowd, but the average user here probably doesn't know the work it takes to do this and might also consider he's paid enough by buying the software, and entitled to this work. Skinners asking for donations is a great way to spread awareness of how much work this really is.
I also don't think anyone, no matter how good the work is will get very many donations because people don't pay for things that they can get for free.
I'd try this, release a skin for free with a link for donations and offer the matching cursor, icons, and/or logon, whatever for a minimum $5.00 donation. Or make a skin in a lighter, "stripped down" version and offer an enhanced one with more color/ button options for a minimum donation. That way those who donate are getting something for their money that others don't have. Giving the donators incentive like that is the only way I see to really make it work.

retiredmaster
Reply #11 Monday, August 11, 2003 6:31 AM
That last idea (doing a 'lite' version) is an good option that many probably consider.

In the case of whether or not to _expect_ a donation, I'm neither surprised nor disappointed that that most people don't donate. It's me putting the ball in their court - I've been doing free skins for so long that I don't want to alienate existing users by suddenly forcing them to pay.

Sadly, icons and cursors are something that I don't have much of a talent for. (If anyone has any suggestions on how they start their icon suites off (i.e. what app they design them in and what 'basic' icons should be included), I'd be grateful - email me!)

Weaksid
Reply #12 Monday, August 11, 2003 6:32 AM
Like shareware versions.

Goes along with knatzz's comment.

crissy14
Reply #13 Monday, August 11, 2003 7:31 AM
I would not mind at all donating $$ for a good skin. I'm still a newbie at skinning, but I do know how many countless hours can go into making a skin. And I can appreciate the authors work he/she put into it. I like the fact that skins here are free (aside from some premium suites offered), but if the skin is good enough and it really suits my needs, then I think the author deserves a little compensation. It's just like a shareware app. You try it, and if you like it, you buy it. I would however want to DL it and try it for a while to be sure it will work well for me.

kona0197
Reply #14 Monday, August 11, 2003 7:48 AM
Kona thinks that you should contribute something back to the author. Money is just one of those things.

carolelee
Reply #15 Monday, August 11, 2003 8:59 AM
I believe one should kick in some $$ because the author puts alot of effort into the skin. I have tried to make a skin but it never seems to turn out how I want it oh well, it's wonderful to see so much talent at wincustomize, I think the authors should have some kind of donation

XX
Reply #16 Monday, August 11, 2003 11:08 AM
I agree that authors should use donation link if he/she don't want to make skin pay only.

I.R. Brainiac
Reply #17 Monday, August 11, 2003 11:14 AM
I think a good ides would be to offer your premium skins on a subscription basis.Keep making a few free ones from time to time but instead of charging for premium skins individually you let them have any new works for 1 year (or 2).I bet you would get more takers if they thought they would get more than just one skin for their money.And make it cheap enough to make it painless.10$ a year wouldnt put too many people off and 50 or so customers would pay for the time it took to make a skin.

Koasati
Reply #18 Monday, August 11, 2003 11:18 AM
So, the question is - is it bad to ask for donations?

I don't see why it should be a problem to 'ask' for a 'donation'........ no one is being forced to pay, so anyone who complains about it, is complaining just to hear their head rattle.



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IPlural
Reply #19 Monday, August 11, 2003 1:43 PM
Koa exactly so !


Dangeruss
Reply #20 Monday, August 11, 2003 2:14 PM
Well don't expect much. I don't mean that to sound like your skins aren't worthy, but the majority sentiments are:

A: The "free!" crowd obviously won't donate.
B: Other skinners often feel like they've "paid their dues" already by skinning for public consumption.
C: The "typical" user when confronted with the minor moral conflict of donating or walking off with a freebie with no consequence, will opt not to donate.

I think that setting up the donation service, and actually collecting the funds after paying the small service fees would end up feeling like too much effort for too little compensation. It could also backfire in deflating your self esteem when you see that so few people donate. I've known folks that have had donationware available for years, charted millions of downloads and have recieved less than $10.00 total over the years.

I'd like to hear the donations accepted success story from someone.

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