If they only were not nearly all white or light grey or white again...

Zodiaq~ .....time to calm down and think rationally.

Remember the site is a 'family site'.

Your post was removed....

The problem with StyleXP....which is clear and apparent to WB skinners in particular is that it is limiting in creative freedom.

For example....I have my buttons on the left....primarily because I can, but also because it is suitably different from the default placement to actually be 'creative'...da-daaaaa!!!

Sure, a graphically competent StyleXP skinner can create a pretty, even 'perfect' rendition of a predictable skin.....but those who actually want to be different have to look beyond the limitations of something that is little more than a default skin re-bitmapped.

Users 'may' not understand or 'see' the difference inherent within the two formats....but those looking for added functionality of the GUI interface have no option but to choose WB over the dll hack.

In exactly the same way that alternate shell users and Explorer GUI modifiers such as Object Desktop seek an escape from the default Windows look and interface, so do Window skinners seek diversity and freedom of design.

Re-hashing the default is like a photoskin of WinAMP....too damn easy and just plain fugly...

Re-hashing the default is like a photoskin of WinAMP....too damn easy and just plain fugly...

I don't know jafo. I think Snidely's Be Metal port looks pretty cool.
Although it might be easy ... I haven't tried to use the 'import StyleXP' feature in SkinStudio. I'm still trying to figure out what usf is and does.

It's not the format, it's the skinners.
I reckon a few WB skinners could make an MSStyle to blow away the bland ones that are already available.
The only MSstyle skinner I would even rate is Chaninja. He's the exception, in that he thinks outside the box.

And why the debate about bringing up StyleXP here?
Sure, it's a dll hack, but this is a free skinning forum, not a Stardock propoganda site.

Hippy....that's true....and why my response was to answer/explain why WB is more preferred [by skinners], and not to say 'bugger off....we hate StyleXP, so there!'....

To me StyleXP is interesting in only one aspect. It forces you to work within strict limitations. When I got a lot of requests to port Seti to StyleXP I tried to make it work. What I realized was it was impossible to get something even remotely similar to the WB version. It would have had the same color and graphic style but none of the function or design could survive the transition.

That's not necessarily a bad thing though if you are trying to learn commercial art or GUI design. More often than not commercial jobs have strict limitations you have to follow. It's much harder to design something when you have to conform to shapes, placement or engineering restraints. Most of what you do in commercial work is limited in these various ways.

WindowBlinds has limitations too but it is light-years ahead of Windows' constraints in both function and freedom of design.  Basically, StyleXP is a way to make your own "Luna". I've seen some nice stuff done for it but it never gets beyond the Windows interface in terms of function or design.

But it is an interesting challenge and can help hone your design skills as well as prepare you for the frustratingly rigid world of commercial design.

I wish the skins that get ported from StyleXP to WindowBlinds took better advantage of the greater freedom for functionality when they're upgraded to WB. Let the design grow "up" instead of a horizontal port which faithfully brings the restraints with it. 

DavidK....Thank you for your 'non-biased' answers to not only mine but other users questions. Your answers were exactly what I was looking for

Other admins and other certain individuals here should learn a lesson from you on the 'Appropriate' way to handle things. You are a true 'Man of Wisdom' and an incredible skinner too

ugh... I was afraid that was going to happen. Zodiaq - I feel you were treated unfairly in this thread. I feel it's a common occurrence on this message board too. If I may quote myself from another painful thread that's active right now...

What I would like to see change is the immediate preconceptions that surface every time someone starts a conversation about ratings or any other once-controversial subject. I think it's true that people trying to bring up a subject get attacked or ridiculed on the message board and it seems like there's no open debate possible on a few subjects. That bothers me. Often I'll see a comment start with what I think are good intentions and the next ten responses are just insults or flames because it was assumed the commenter had some previously identified agenda. Let people speak their mind without jumping to conclusions.

Why do emotions get so out of control all the time? Like Hippy said, "this is a free skinning forum, not a Stardock propoganda site".  I think the effort by some (well intentioned no doubt) to stiffle threads that seem to be going in a similar direction as some previous experience is jumping to conclusions and actually creates the problem, makes it a self-fulfilling-prophecy if you will, rather than helping.

jeesh... chill pills to everyone. Let's try to read more carefully and not assume so much. Everyone here has good intentions, dysfunctional communication has a way of reducing any discussion to a confrontation.

Zodiac, your posts get deleted not because of your opinions, but because of the language.  Replacing letters with stars do not make the word less of a swear word. I recon you can get your opinion accross just as well without those words.

I got nothing against Style XP, and I always value your opinion and input. This is not personnal. There are just some words we don't want to read here, that's all.

Thanks you for your insight and support DavidK...

I have noticed you are very well 'Respected' man in this community and I understand why

I am fairly new to the 'skinning' thing and I have only started around a dozen threads in 188 days since I signed up here...I really haven't partaken of the message boards until recently...What a mistake.

I seen no harm in the Subject of the thread...I was just asking a simple question in regards to something I knew nothing about...Then pounced upon by Jafo's dog. I don't get it

paxx...I understand what you are saying...but if that is true...there are several hundred other posts that need to be deleted too

OMG!!! You guys just deleted another one of my posts? Unbelievable!!!...Some of you Admin's have serious 'Control' issues.

Let me try this again...Jafo, If you censor my post's I believe that you should delete MadIce's also...I know he's your best buddy and all and you won't but it would only be right. He is the one that ignited this. His presumptuous post's would have been nothing but offensive to anyone.

This is way out of control and why? Because I ask about a competitors software? So some MadDog jumps in and says...You're a liar...you know what you're doing, you're trying to draw people away...What a paranoid jerk!!! Now I am the bad guy...You guys a fricken' joke.

Are you guys really that afraid?
[Message Edited]

Zodiaq, I deleted the last post.

Again, it has nothing to do with competitor software. I disagree greatly with the way MadIce jumped on you for posting this thread, but althought his post is quite rude, it contains no profanity.

Back on the topic at hand, I encourage you to release your skins for both MSSTYLES and Windowblinds, if you are willing to spend the extra time on it. That way you will be able to reach a maximum of people. My advice would be though to start with the Windowblinds with all it allows you to do, and then scale it down to MSSTYLES.

paxx...I have been trying to be a part of this so called 'Family'...I started the 'Wincustomize Photo Album' thread to create more of a Family environment.

I have contributed Blinds,Icons,Cursors and a couple Walls. I know it's not much compared to the Veterans around here but I have contributed 140,000 downloads worth of traffic.

Although as Jafo once said, it's a 'Paltry' donation.

Now after MadIce's uncalled for behaviour and Jafo's need to back him...I would rather have my pic removed, pack my bags and move out of the house.

So, the dog barks again. It has been called to perform his tricks. I hope you enjoy them.

Zodiaq~, my reaction doesn't come from the blind. You have a great talent to stir things up. Just look at some of your fabulous message board contributions from the past. For me this thread was just another one. And the way you handle it, doesn't make me change my opnion.

Just continue to spread your "Jafo/Dog" theory on this site. I don't really care. Cya around.

Sorry I don't have your message board prowess and etiquette MadDog

There was no harm in any of the threads I started, It was the immature behaviour in individuals such as yourself that turn it into a flame war.

Isn't a forum such as this a place to 'discuss' things, what ever they may be? There are many different voices here with many different different opinions and everyone should be able to be heard without being chastized and ridiculed because 'YOU' don't believe they're sincere?

You're just another forum Rat MadIce...that likes to 'Stir' things up with your responses to someone's simple question.

As for the 'Theory' it's pretty evident and obvious...So it's fact not theory.

Like I said, This thread started as a simple question and 'YOU' had to stoop down and turn it into this....paaaaathetic

Everyone needs to remember there are over two million people that come to this site.  The message board is a "forum" and should be used as such, discussing things that relate to us in a variety of ways. Not just skinning but almost any topic that people want to discuss.  Most of the visitors here never post on the board but surely thousands of them read this stuff. For many it must be intimidating to see the drama that's become so common, and for many it's probably either amusing or just plain dissapointing.

It seems like things get very personal here rather quickly. Accusations, pre-concieved notions about someone's intentions and confrontation have become a standard way of responding. I think there's an obvious problem that has to do with perspective. It's easy to loose one's perspective and take things too personally. The result is always a painful exchange that's so predictable I'm amazed how frequently it goes that way.

Admins, especially Jafo, put in an enormous amount of time on this site. There's also a lot of other sites that we all try to stay current with. The defensiveness you sometimes see from the site staff probably has more to do with an overall perception of an attack against values we've held for years. Values like protecting artist's work from infringement, rewarding quality work, helping new people get started and grow, and maintaining an equilibrium between the casual visitors and the zealots.

If we didn't get stretched so thin by our own commitment to the members, the site and the community, maybe we could be more patient. I know we've all tried a number of different approaches included the apocryphal venting from frustration. The effort from the admins is to cool things down when they get hot, try to explain, be reasonable, etc. but at some point the sheer volume or ridiculousness of accusations and angst gets the best of us and we do the same thing we wish others weren't doing. We're all human and we all mean well. The only solution I see to this problem is for everyone to try to have perspective on what's being said and try to communicate effectively.

The easier it is for someone to be offended the more likely they will be offended.  The more someone needs to be right about something, the more likely others will disagree with him. Human nature tells us we must protect ourselves from what is unfair but social conditioning confuses fairness with comfort.

I hate to see anyone leave the site. There must be a better way to resolve things.....

 

that being said I have to leave so I won't see any more of this until later tonight.

 

DavidK...You speak so logically and sensibly, it's very calming to me when I read your posts.

Thank you for trying to maintain a sense of perspective It must be diffucult to maintain such composure when dealing with this kind of crap.

You are a 'Classy' man

Everyone needs to take a chill pill and listen to davidK.