Hard to swallow!
Sunday, July 20, 2003 by bucben | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Its with great pain that I must say good-bye. My troubles all started about a week ago when I summited a theme called "XP-X".I received an e_mail from jafo telling me it was rejected because it was a copy of boxxi"s gridscape. Knowing it was not-I resimitted and received the same e-mail.. I then resummited with a editors note that everything in said theme was made from scratch to the best of my knowledge and it was summited. Since that time my download numbers have steadaly declined. Its hard to beleive a theme goes from 100+ downloads a day to less than 5.I really feel like I"m being blackballed for whatever reason? Kinda weird when you consider I"m not makeing a dime off of any of my work. I"ve been coming to this site almost since day one and I"m just realizing that the politics here are borderline insane.I will miss some of you for sure but under these conditions there is no way I will continue to support this site!!!
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bucben
Reply #22 Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:48 AM
Reply #22 Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:48 AM
There"s no way to make a difference on this site!!!! Thank you WOM! Good bye!!!!!!!
Weaksid
Reply #23 Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:48 AM
Reply #23 Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:48 AM
O' it has to be a public flogging. The reason being is so everybody else see what would happen if you do the same. 
Weaksid
Reply #24 Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:51 AM
Reply #24 Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:51 AM
bucben, you have to learn. Everybody's work gets ejected. You just have to suck it up and make it better. And try and try again. I'm not sure how many works I have done got rejected but then they accepted. It depends on what they are looking for at that time and if it meets the guidelines. It's just the way it works. All my work is over at DA. The ones that got rejected and the ones that got accepted. But what makes it over here, I'm very proud of since it made it. I just wanted to make that point accross if you proceed to give up early.
Michael Ficarra
Reply #25 Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:52 AM
Public flogging
That was good
[Message Edited]
Reply #25 Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:52 AM
Public flogging That was good
[Message Edited]
Weaksid
Reply #26 Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:53 AM
Reply #26 Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:53 AM
I forgot to put in there. To make it better might also mean, take a diffrent approach. If one way doesn't work, try and test something else that might come in your head. There is no limits.
Snowman
Reply #27 Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:57 AM
Reply #27 Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:57 AM
If you're around just for the high download count and are pulling your stash only because that count is dropping, you're in the wrong "business" dude! I getting around a total of 100/150 downloads a day on all my skins/themes here on WC, so dont complain if just a single one of yours are dropping.
btw how come your ID is so high if you have been here since day one?! From the looks of it, it looks more like your have made an account only just resontly.
btw how come your ID is so high if you have been here since day one?! From the looks of it, it looks more like your have made an account only just resontly.
IPlural
Reply #28 Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:02 PM
Reply #28 Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:02 PM
because people change accounts for various reasons...
IPlural
Reply #29 Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:06 PM
Reply #29 Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:06 PM
mmm...
polemics n. the art of controversy or disputation
polemics n. the art of controversy or disputation
bucben
Reply #30 Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:16 PM
Reply #30 Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:16 PM
Really didn"t want to make another comment but felt the need. First thanx IPlural-that was the case. I had to reformat and just thought a fresh approach with a "cooler" name was in order,exspecially when I hadn"t been active on the site other than downloading.My theme ultamately was accepted by the way-just took three times to summit-same one.Its just that after that is when the numbers came down.And no-I"m not solely into the numbers its just that if you get poor ratings-even if your work is being downloaded-they are not available to the general public(almost 18,000)downloads for desktopx in a single month).This site should be for everyone-the paying and the non-paying-thats how you get more paying customers(I should know-spent 20 plus years in retail sales). This will be my last comment on this thread so for you who understand my position thank you very much and for you who don"t-you are entiteled to yours. Everyone have a great day!!!
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
Michael Ficarra
Reply #31 Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:20 PM
Reply #31 Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:20 PM
Byes. You'll be missed ... for a minute or two. But I will never forget! *echoes "forget" lamely*
I.R. Brainiac
Reply #32 Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:33 PM
Reply #32 Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:33 PM
Personally the rating is not that important.The DL count however IS.That's how I judge the success and acceptance of my work.The rating can directly influence whether or not people even see your work.Some of you are missing the point,we 're not talking about a dl count tapering off gradually,we talking about site politics killing a skin overnight.A few people are abusing the ratings system and making this wonderful site less wonderful.
c242
Reply #33 Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:42 PM
Reply #33 Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:42 PM
Or do absolutely useless comments on a thread like this *doesn't look at arraciFleahciM*.
c242
Reply #34 Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:47 PM
Reply #34 Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:47 PM
bucben : As You deleted all Your skins in an unneccessary hurry it is hard to judge about anything You said...
[Message Edited]
[Message Edited]
IPlural
Reply #35 Sunday, July 20, 2003 1:00 PM
Reply #35 Sunday, July 20, 2003 1:00 PM
Oh I'm not missing any points of perspective, but I am not going to limit mine either.
The way I see it is that *download counts* reflect peoples interest, rating reflects peoples opinion of quality which is based upon personal thoughts about a given skin or theme, icon, cursor, wall, etc...
Maybe a higher level for the ability to rate should be put into place and a lowering of rating level for public display should also?
Ratings serve many purposes across the board, some self serving but the larger number serves the beginning skinner, experienced skinner and community as a whole.
Download counts are just that, hell I can post a PDF on the web about how to become rich in 12 easy steps and fill it with crap and it will have a high download count which doesn't reflect the quality of the information or product, just that some people had an interest to see what is was about or like...
Now if people rate the PDF it would reflect what they think of it, comments would also depict just how ugly and personal they would take it ...
The way I see it is that *download counts* reflect peoples interest, rating reflects peoples opinion of quality which is based upon personal thoughts about a given skin or theme, icon, cursor, wall, etc...
Maybe a higher level for the ability to rate should be put into place and a lowering of rating level for public display should also?
Ratings serve many purposes across the board, some self serving but the larger number serves the beginning skinner, experienced skinner and community as a whole.
Download counts are just that, hell I can post a PDF on the web about how to become rich in 12 easy steps and fill it with crap and it will have a high download count which doesn't reflect the quality of the information or product, just that some people had an interest to see what is was about or like...
Now if people rate the PDF it would reflect what they think of it, comments would also depict just how ugly and personal they would take it ...
sig101
Reply #36 Sunday, July 20, 2003 1:05 PM
Reply #36 Sunday, July 20, 2003 1:05 PM
I still don't see the correlation between having to resubmit a skin and show it's authenticity and the drop in downloads. Presumably due to lower ratings although he doesn't explicitly say that, so how does the cause and effect he claims work and who is he accusing of what? The mods of rating his works low? The mods encouraging others to rate his work low? Is there some grapevine where non mods have access to the info re: moderation issues (that have not been publicly discussed here, that is)? I rather doubt that. Evidently low ratings are nothing new to him, since he said he gets low ratings elsewhere so apparently his work can get low ratings on its own merits without the "poliics" he now sees here. So how does politics enter in to his works' downloads as he claims? He hasn't made a case that I can see, just accusations.
But since whatever work he had here (with which I was unfamiliar anyway) is gone, there's no way for any one else to see if his work has been unjustly dogged or not. I've seen well rated work initially have a flurry of downloads and then dramatically drop without a change in rating. Just like most movies and their box office takes...people go and then move on to the next new thing. So whether that also could be the case or not cannot be determined since he rather conveniently removed the "evidence."
But then people who want to make their public manifestos already have their minds made up and don't post them here to open mindedly listen to alternative scenarios so adios it is. Taking a stand has more impact if people are familar with you and your work and it is still available for them to see. As it is, it's like a tree fell in a forest and most of us were at the beach at the time.
[Message Edited]
But since whatever work he had here (with which I was unfamiliar anyway) is gone, there's no way for any one else to see if his work has been unjustly dogged or not. I've seen well rated work initially have a flurry of downloads and then dramatically drop without a change in rating. Just like most movies and their box office takes...people go and then move on to the next new thing. So whether that also could be the case or not cannot be determined since he rather conveniently removed the "evidence."
But then people who want to make their public manifestos already have their minds made up and don't post them here to open mindedly listen to alternative scenarios so adios it is. Taking a stand has more impact if people are familar with you and your work and it is still available for them to see. As it is, it's like a tree fell in a forest and most of us were at the beach at the time.
[Message Edited]
DavidK
Reply #37 Sunday, July 20, 2003 1:18 PM
Reply #37 Sunday, July 20, 2003 1:18 PM
I too just went to see what the fuss was over but the evidence is already deleted. 
For the record:
Wincustomize admins have no personal agenda against any submissions, we don't blacklist or interfere with anyone's downloads. I don't think there's even a way it would be possible to do such a thing. Speaking for myself, I try to do as much moderating as possible while I'm here and usually avoid the message board. It takes a lot of time to do the things we are expected to do and keeping up with the daily flow of emotions is something I would rather leave to the members.
Download counts are usually high for a couple days and then fall off DRAMATICALLY (seemingly overnight). This is perfectly normal as the piece is in the spotlight when it's first posted, everyone that wants to try it out downloads it, and then it becomes part of the 'catalog' which gets a lot fewer views. This is not an indication of any conspiracy, it's just normal behavior for any skin site.
If anyone ever feels something unfair or conspiratorial is being done to them, whether by the site or by individuals or by the evil gods of Rangnoor, you have an easy and effective way to deal with it. Write to us! All of us, one of us, Jafo, whatever... give it a shot. Generally communicating about something is much more helpful than complaining about something. Especially when that something probably doesn't even exist in the first place. We all have active imaginations (hey, we're artists right?) and we all have sensitive egos but why not take advantage of the group (community) compassion that does exist. No one wants anyone to feel bad here, we'll bend over backwards to prevent it. It amazes me how often I see someone go off feeling bad when a bit of communication, or perspective, could have prevented it.
Ratings? live with it... every site has ratings. We could pull the ratings from members, only allow admins to rate, but would that really solve anything?
Phoon
Reply #38 Sunday, July 20, 2003 1:21 PM
Reply #38 Sunday, July 20, 2003 1:21 PM
Having been there as well, by putting my foot in my mouth once and pulling all of my work, I understand the heated frustration. My rejections were deserved and thus made me try even harder after I thought about the situation.
However, I have yet to experience the issues bucben is referring too. I agree that if you are just concerned with the DL count dropping off, you should have held off for awhile. Create because YOU enjoy it, not just for everyone else.
This site gets more ratings and DL's than any other site I have items on. I suspect that is due to the quality of content here, and the fact that the admins moderate the items that are posted.
I say keep up the good work WC.
Bucben, good luck to you wherever you land.
However, I have yet to experience the issues bucben is referring too. I agree that if you are just concerned with the DL count dropping off, you should have held off for awhile. Create because YOU enjoy it, not just for everyone else.
This site gets more ratings and DL's than any other site I have items on. I suspect that is due to the quality of content here, and the fact that the admins moderate the items that are posted.
I say keep up the good work WC.
Bucben, good luck to you wherever you land.
SelfExiled
Reply #39 Sunday, July 20, 2003 1:39 PM
Reply #39 Sunday, July 20, 2003 1:39 PM
I feel for you Bucben, because I was forced to do the same thing too. There are a lot of politics here regardless of what the admins seem to want to portray. I won't mention names and some are kinder than others. I had to do the same thing myself regarding my skins. But, I've found that several non-admins really do appreciate the "free" work that artists share on this site. Maybe there is a lot of favoritism and quote "politics" here but you must understand that it is common throughout the world. So, why should Wincustomize be any different? Still, it is sad and quite frustrating at times. I think that what we as unhappy or angry artists with the politics here need to do is understand that we are creating for our own happiness and artistic development. And, when you occassionally get a nice personal compliment through your email about your work, it truly makes it all worth it. I wish that I had thought about that before I acted the way you did. But, I understand wholeheartedly.... >
bucben
Reply #40 Sunday, July 20, 2003 1:58 PM
Reply #40 Sunday, July 20, 2003 1:58 PM
Thank you ChasUGS-the truth of the matter it is sad to take your work to other forums that are less traveled.Regardless of what others might post here it is an injustice to have 162 downloads one day and 5 the next and say your work was not up to muster!!!I truely beleive that a few truely dictate to the many what,when, and how much.It is a shame-I feel this site is slowly looseing its grip on reality.I can take constuctive critism-but to know these facts and look at what this site does to downloads and uploads it leaves itself open to much deserved critism!Again-its not about dwindling downloads-but rather why-I don"t beleive I ever had a negative comment about any of my uploads!Its more like the old south in the USA-they are on the good buddy system!!!
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Reply #21 Sunday, July 20, 2003 11:46 AM