Micronut is at it again...

GRRR

Monday, July 30, 2018 by Uvah | Discussion: Personal Computing

Its bad enough Win 10 gets screwed up with these 'updates' all the time. Now MS in its infinite stupidity is gonna take our desktops away. Add another bill to your collection folks 'cause MS wants to go full on subscription for Windows. If I want to rent a machine I'll go to Rent-A-Center. I shouldn't have to pay rent on the OS that makes it work too. That's just insane! 

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JcRabbit
Reply #1 Monday, July 30, 2018 11:18 AM

Not sure why the surprise, Uvah. The writing has been on the wall for a very long time.

LightStar
Reply #2 Monday, July 30, 2018 11:30 AM

This better now be a forced thing, because if it is I will sue their stupid asses!   

JcRabbit
Reply #3 Monday, July 30, 2018 11:46 AM

LightStar

This better now be a forced thing, because if it is I will sue their stupid asses!   

If you can. One (well, me, lol) wonders why nobody ever managed to successfully sue Microsoft because of their forced Windows 10 updates trashing previously working Windows 7 machines.

admiralWillyWilber
Reply #4 Monday, July 30, 2018 12:22 PM

I'm not sure how different this will make things. Maybe this will force me to go to Linux now. Unbuntu is that the one to pick maybe I should start learning.

Uvah
Reply #5 Monday, July 30, 2018 3:38 PM

I know its been out for a while but this is the first time I saw it in the news.

DaveBax
Reply #6 Monday, July 30, 2018 5:11 PM


I know its been out for a while but this is the first time I saw it in the news.

Guess Jorge didn't know how far behind the times you are. He will learn.

Jorge. Ross just learned that the first letter was delivered by Horse. He will catch up.

Island Dog
Reply #7 Monday, July 30, 2018 5:37 PM

I wouldn't get all worked up from a CW article. 

JcRabbit
Reply #8 Monday, July 30, 2018 6:04 PM

DaveBax
Guess Jorge didn't know how far behind the times you are. He will learn.

Jorge. Ross just learned that the first letter was delivered by Horse. He will catch up.

LOL.

Well, in Ross's defense it is true that MS never clearly stated that this is what they would be doing, but it was obvious where all this 'free' Windows 10 thingy, Office 365, UWP apps, the attempt to kill Win32 applications, etc, was going.

And in that line, what truly shocks me is that not so long ago people would riot in the streets if an application did as much as phone home for whatever reason, and now they KNOW their personal data is being harvested and they seem not to care at all. When did we become so apathetic that Microsoft thought (rightly so) that it would get away with shoving Windows 10 down our throats wether we liked it or not? 

Not so long ago, people would quote George Orwell's 1984 as an example of what could happen in a totalitarian society (the constant surveillance, the all seeing eye at their own homes, etc...) and now it is the people themselves that bring those devices to their own homes (Alexa, Google, etc...). We post all our lives, thoughts and opinions on social media, every purchase and search we do can be digitally tracked, and we carry with us devices that can track down every movement we do at all times (cell phones).

And nobody, no government organization, none of the people who actually have the power to say 'Stop, enough is enough' say so or do anything to protect us.

Can people truly not see where all this is heading and how fast things can change for the worse? Are they so deluded that they don't at least see the danger? Seriously, this world is turning into a very scary place.

admiralWillyWilber
Reply #9 Monday, July 30, 2018 6:43 PM

Not sure we are already there.

Daiwa
Reply #10 Monday, July 30, 2018 11:09 PM

Jorge -

What people do voluntarily to allow intrusion of the internet into their lives is one thing.  Not for me to say whether that is a good or bad idea for them.  My opinion is irrelevant to their needs and wants.

But the inexorable march of OS's & software to subscription-based access (I'm typing this on one of Stardock's sites, ironically, to which I willingly subscribe because I see value there) is both unfortunate and unavoidable because there has yet to arise an economical alternative of equivalent quality.  I dislike it, particularly with respect to OS's, but we really have no choice in the matter.  Critical mass has been achieved and we are completely captive consumers.  OS-as-a-service will be a nightmare to administer and a disaster for many users, particularly at first, but we'll have no choice but to bite the bullet.  As long as it's only money demanded of us, we'll eventually get it figured out.  But if Facebook & Twitter are any sort of barometers, you better have the 'correct' ideas & use it only for approved purposes or there might be no OS for you.  Just take a moment & ponder what the EULA/TOS might look like - could make War and Peace look like a comic book.

</tinfoilhat>

starkers
Reply #11 Tuesday, July 31, 2018 12:19 AM

I recall saying when Win 10 was still an infant in nappies [diapers] that it would likely go to subscription within ten years or so.... that System32 applications would be phased out to accomodate the confounded apps that MS so willingly embraced to create something very similar to Apple's 'walled garden'.

Yup, Windows 10 will get to the point where ONLY apps from the MS Store will install AND work as advertised.  All of MS's current partners will suck up to get their softwares available through the store, but most everything else will become obsolete as it will neither install or work.  System32 applications will be a thing of the past and all the money people have spent on the latest software will have been ill-spent.... wasted, in other words.

Moreover, when Win 10 goes to a subscription service, the scrutiny of users activities will increase and 'illegal' practices will see subscriptions either cancelled or running on limited priveleges.  It will pretty near knock pirated software off the horizon and seriously curb or prevent bittorrent downloading. 

I hear some of you saying that's okay, nothing wrong with that, but what if MS decides that currently acceptable applications your'e now using are suddenly 'illegal and your subscription is either cancelled or heavily curtailed?

I recall some laughing when I first said it, some said it would never happen, but it IS inevitable that Windows will become a subscription service and the time is drawing closer.

BigDogBigFeet
Reply #12 Tuesday, July 31, 2018 12:28 AM

It's a Corporate customer target market only.  It includes hardware, software, and support all for one monthly charge per user.

This isn't a product Microsoft is planning for homes/individuals.

starkers
Reply #13 Tuesday, July 31, 2018 1:00 AM

BigDogBigFeet

It's a Corporate customer target market only.  It includes hardware, software, and support all for one monthly charge per user.

This isn't a product Microsoft is planning for homes/individuals.

Perhaps this a 'subscription trial' is for corporate users.... for now.  However, it is invevitable that home users will end up being forced onto OS subscriptions. 

As it is there's already a subscription service for MS Office.  What do you think that is?  It's a another trial to see how successful subscription services would be, and being that millions of unwitting subscribers didn't see it for what it really was, it has been a success and I reckon the OS version wouldn't too far away.

mrblondini
Reply #14 Tuesday, July 31, 2018 2:27 AM

And I guess the "end-game" is that one day nobody will be able to do anything, use commercial software, play a game, etc without being connected to the good old interwebs.

Which makes it easier to have a looksie at what you're doing and then say: "Look, since you're okay at us looking at A, B and C, you may as well let us look at D, which isn't really that much of a personal identifier or something someone could exploit to sell you or track you. We promise we won't look at E because that's your private information."

And a few years down the track, they ask/tell us they're looking at E - "we've been doing for a while, you obviously weren't bothered by it because you didn't say anything..."

A subscription system to me says "we promise to upgrade/fix this software regularly and do it well". Microsoft don't appear to be doing too well by that standard up to here.

 

starkers
Reply #15 Tuesday, July 31, 2018 6:32 AM

mrblondini

And I guess the "end-game" is that one day nobody will be able to do anything, use commercial software, play a game, etc without being connected to the good old interwebs.

Which makes it easier to have a looksie at what you're doing and then say: "Look, since you're okay at us looking at A, B and C, you may as well let us look at D, which isn't really that much of a personal identifier or something someone could exploit to sell you or track you. We promise we won't look at E because that's your private information."

And a few years down the track, they ask/tell us they're looking at E - "we've been doing for a while, you obviously weren't bothered by it because you didn't say anything..."

A subscription system to me says "we promise to upgrade/fix this software regularly and do it well". Microsoft don't appear to be doing too well by that standard up to here.

 

That's the crux of it, so many users accept A, B and C being looked at, scrutinised.... and that's the precedent MS will use when it want's to look into D.... and later E.  It won't matter if you're not one of the 'many' users, it's the accepted norm by the majority and the minority who doesn't like it WILL comply/accept it as well.

The whole idea of a Windows subscription is to gain 100% control over everthying users do on their PCs.  There will be no more 'I've been using this program for years' if MS doesn't like or authorise it.  There won't be anymore keeping your porn stash in a secret folder, cos secret folders will be a thing of the past.

As for upgrading/fixing Windows regularly and doing it well, that's total crap and would never be a reality.  MS has such a poor track record in that regard, pigs are more likely to fly. 

Under no circumstances will I ever run a PC with a subscription Windows OS on it.  Nope, NOT EVER!!!!

There was a time when Microsoft was one of the more trusted tech companies, but that consumer trust has since dwindled to all-time lows after that Nadella bloke took over the day to day running of things.  I had higher hopes for MS after Steve Ballmer was replaced, but obviously the place has gone to shit and will be remembered as an all-time tech travesty.

Uvah
Reply #16 Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:51 AM

DaveBax


Quoting Uvah,

I know its been out for a while but this is the first time I saw it in the news.



Guess Jorge didn't know how far behind the times you are. He will learn.

Jorge. Ross just learned that the first letter was delivered by Horse. He will catch up.

In my own defense behind the times I am most definitely not, I am well aware of where all this nonsense is going. If people think this is likened to an Orwellian saga they are not far off the mark all things considered. If you hold up four fingers and I say four you say no, its what the state tells you it is. Microsoft is doing what it wants and listening to consumers, the very people that keeps them in business, particularly the high end users like big business, the end result is more and more people feeling as though what they say and prefer as far as privacy is concerned, is falling on deaf ears. Practically every device you own is connected through IoT. Your fridge can spy on you. Your stove and dish washer and dryer can too. If your house is connected forget it. It may turn the lights on when you walk into a room or turn them off when you leave but its got eyeballs on you everywhere except the bathroom. Unless you got a 'smart' TP roll or medicine cabinet then even the head isn't safe. Point being the intrusion is unacceptable. When you pay good money for something, regardless of what that something is, no one has any kind of right to tell you, as the consumer and 'owner' of something, what you can and cannot do with your private property. Its understood that you can't or rather shouldn't use it to harm somebody, that's just plain common sense, but to not have control of it, to have to pay on a monthly basis just so it will work, be it in the workplace or somewhere else, does not bode well for a relatively decent future.   

BigDogBigFeet
Reply #17 Tuesday, July 31, 2018 7:59 AM

starkers

Perhaps this a 'subscription trial' is for corporate users.... for now. However, it is invevitable that home users will end up being forced onto OS subscriptions.

It is not an OS subscription.  It is a complete package of hardware, software and support.

It is a turnkey drop it in place solution targeted at businesses who do not want their own IT department.

The Microsoft DaaS that is being cited here is Devices as a Service.  Gee think Volvo, the older Comdisco and I am sure there are others who have served this up before.

I am sure Micronut will give you a free tin hat just for signing up.

 

JcRabbit
Reply #18 Tuesday, July 31, 2018 8:42 AM

BigDogBigFeet
Why persist with the tin hats about this?

You know that saying "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you" ?

You can add to that this Niemöller quotation:

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

I'm a reasonable, rational, common sense person and if I can see the writing in the wall, so can everyone else.

Look around you, this is in no way limited to Microsoft and computers, it is happening everywhere in Western culture! It is no longer limited to the 'tin foil hats' camp, people are literally being told what they can and cannot say and how they should think. Anything that does not conform to the desired narrative is labeled as 'hate speech', they go after your job and you are labeled a 'monster' regardless of how noble (or not) your intentions are. This is already happening, it has already happened. This is all about forcing people to do something they do NOT want to do and silencing or ignoring their voices and the voice of common sense in favor of ideology.

I know it sounds like I am going completely off topic but if you really dig deeper into this I think you will come to the same conclusion I did, that all this is related. Microsoft would never DARE do something like what they did with Windows 10 a few years ago, the backlash would have been incredible then.

Now, speaking only about software: Adobe's Photoshop, Office, both extremely popular and widely used applications, once stand alone, are now already subscription based services. What makes you so convinced that Microsoft would not try the same with Windows that you put it in the 'tin foil hats' camp? Things are clearly going in that direction with Windows 10.

Furthermore, why is Microsoft still pushing UWP apps if their very reason of being (seamless integration of mobile vs desktops) is a mute point now that MS is no longer in the mobile business? Isn't it because Microsoft's OTHER reason is to destroy Win32 - which they cannot control - and create their own walled garden with the UWP apps, just like Apple did? If they pull it off, developers have no choice but to use the Windows Store to publish their stuff - and that gives Microsoft complete control over what gets published and not as well as a 30% cut on everything sold through them, of course.

Great move for Microsoft, but for the rest of us, not so much.

The point is, MS has a monopolistic position and this is the only reason they are able to get away with what they are doing. They are ABUSING that position, like they did before - and isn't precisely this that caused the DOJ to intervene all those years ago? So why isn't someone doing something now?

Never mind, I can answer that: because before it was about protecting the interests of other businesses, now it's about protecting the interests of consumers.

starkers
Reply #19 Tuesday, July 31, 2018 10:29 AM

JcRabbit

Never mind, I can answer that: because before it was about protecting the interests of other businesses, now it's about protecting the interests of consumers.

And too, lawmakers see benefits in not acting on behalf of consumers.... allowing eavesdropping and snooping into peoples lives using the very tech MS is creating.  It's a case of we've scratched your back, now scratch ours.

Uvah
Reply #20 Tuesday, July 31, 2018 2:50 PM

Jorge said it better than I ever could. Its one step short of dominance. One on top and everyone else towing the line.

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