Why is it that Citizens requesting help get ignored?
Saturday, May 3, 2003 by Aneaka Frature | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
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I'm relatively new (Feb 2003) but I've noticed that legitimate new user questions from Citizens get ignored with regularity. 
I'm looking at the board right now and it appears all of the legitimate Citizen questions are waiting, and waiting, and waiting. 
Not sure why. Knowledge hoarded is wasted!! All Citizens are potential contributors/cheerleaders/sales people. I LOVE what this community has done! 
It allows so much creativity and freedom with what is traditionally so cookie cutter.
Help us!!
I'm relatively new (Feb 2003) but I've noticed that legitimate new user questions from Citizens get ignored with regularity. 
I'm looking at the board right now and it appears all of the legitimate Citizen questions are waiting, and waiting, and waiting. 
Not sure why. Knowledge hoarded is wasted!! All Citizens are potential contributors/cheerleaders/sales people. I LOVE what this community has done! 
It allows so much creativity and freedom with what is traditionally so cookie cutter. Help us!!
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WOM
Reply #2 Saturday, May 3, 2003 1:19 PM
Reply #2 Saturday, May 3, 2003 1:19 PM
That didn't come out the way I typed it. Wonder why. Didn't even bold what I highlighted. Oh well.
Stumpy
Reply #3 Saturday, May 3, 2003 1:24 PM
Reply #3 Saturday, May 3, 2003 1:24 PM
Well Wom, that appears to be a very good answer indeed, but you may not have known or not noticed that if you are using the discussion from within SDC then there is no FAQ at the top of the message board. 
Aneaka Frature
Reply #4 Saturday, May 3, 2003 1:30 PM
Reply #4 Saturday, May 3, 2003 1:30 PM
absolutely EVERYTHING I've learned has been from FAQ's or trial and error. It's just sad that though I'm in the computerage, I have less knowledge shared han then the oral traditions people used to use to pass on knowledge. >
that though I'm in the computerage, I have less knowledge shared han then the oral traditions people used to use to pass on knowledge. >
crissy14
Reply #5 Saturday, May 3, 2003 1:54 PM
Reply #5 Saturday, May 3, 2003 1:54 PM
Hoppity
When I use SDC or WCB there is indeeed Faq''s in the very first thread. Just thought I had to throw that in.
Aneaka Frature
I dont know how long you''ve been watching the board and seeing questions go unanswered. But perhaps it''s like WOM says that maybe there just isnt anyone around at the time who may know how to answer. In general I have to disagree with you. Ive been around for a little bit now, but when I first came to this site (and now still) any question I asked was answered if not promptly, then in a reasonable amount of time. I find peaople here to be very helpful. Ive even noticed sort of a "competition" if you will to see who can answer the question first. I think if you hang around long enough youll see what I mean. I dont think anyone is purposly ignoring newbies who need help.
[Message Edited]
When I use SDC or WCB there is indeeed Faq''s in the very first thread. Just thought I had to throw that in.
Aneaka Frature
I dont know how long you''ve been watching the board and seeing questions go unanswered. But perhaps it''s like WOM says that maybe there just isnt anyone around at the time who may know how to answer. In general I have to disagree with you. Ive been around for a little bit now, but when I first came to this site (and now still) any question I asked was answered if not promptly, then in a reasonable amount of time. I find peaople here to be very helpful. Ive even noticed sort of a "competition" if you will to see who can answer the question first. I think if you hang around long enough youll see what I mean. I dont think anyone is purposly ignoring newbies who need help.
[Message Edited]
da_zman20
Reply #6 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:02 PM
Reply #6 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:02 PM
Odd everytime I come on, I help 3 to 4 people... hmmm... i don't notice people getting ignored since I usually help them... if I don't know the answer I will pass it on, and if no one else knows, well then they won't get an answer. No one gets paid to give customer support here, we are doing this free on our time, trying to help, and contribute, it's unfortunate, but if they have a problem with something, and don't get help here they should check with the vendor, namely Stardock, or winamp, or whatever program it is that they have the trouble with.
WOM
Reply #7 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:10 PM
Reply #7 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:10 PM
The FAQ isn't displayed while using the SkinBrowser, but if you are using that one would think you have some knowledge in what you are doing and you will probable not be looked at as a newbie. After a while some of us do get burned out and need a break from answering the same questions over and over. Take a day or two off and restart answering the questions all over again.
Aneaka Frature
Reply #8 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:11 PM
Reply #8 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:11 PM
I would hope that the latter half of my message was the one more heeded. A reply that implies scorn is just as damaging to a community that is honest about their need for subscriptions to do enhancements and upgrades. I know that "No one gets paid to give customer support here." but I paid because I believe in everything that's going on here.
Sadly even an honest post worded to show both frustration and support gets flamed.
Sadly even an honest post worded to show both frustration and support gets flamed.
da_zman20
Reply #9 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:25 PM
Reply #9 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:25 PM
the attempt is not to scorn the paying customer, but the paying customer must understand this is not the media for support, people either choose to help you, or they don't much like the real world, if your car breaks down on the side of the road, another driver may stop to help you, or may not, you can't say that the people who put up the freeways are at fault for that. That's what wincustomize does, they put up the freeways, and if someone comes to your aid that is because they want to help you, if someone chooses not to, then call the dealership you bought the car from and tell them they sold you a lemon (call stardock, tell them hey i need help, they will gladly assist)
da_zman20
Reply #10 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:26 PM
Reply #10 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:26 PM
and as I said, I am one of the ones that helps here, myself and many others...
WOM
Reply #11 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:27 PM
Reply #11 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:27 PM
Aneaka Frature, if you think you have been flamed, I feel sorry for you , especially if you think I did it. But I can see from your last post, that I will not respond to any post you make in the future because I don't want to be the one to upset you or be accused of flaming.
feline
Reply #12 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:28 PM
Reply #12 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:28 PM
i started typing this after reading post #8
there has been some cross-posting going on, which explains how i started this:
Aneaka Frature, please take a deep calm breath.
personally, i class help threads into three groups, which need handling separately:
a) technical / software support questions (or problems) with stardock software
threads called "help", "HELP", "i need help", "please help me"
c) general question threads with meaningful titles.
i think that covers most to all of them
for class A, this is not the official support method for stardock products. so, paying customers come here, get no support, and get upset. often they are directed to email support @ stardock . com (spaces inserted so you can read it without it being converted) since there are people there who are paid to help. i suspect that is what the reference to getting paid is about.
B. once upon a time when i was new to this board i read and tried to answer all of those threads. somewhere in the last 2 years i have reached the point where i have concluded that if the person cannot give the thread a better title, i don''t want to read it. so, personally, i don''t read these threads, so i don''t try to help. i suspect this is also the case with some of the other helpful people.
C. if the question is about ObjectDock (which most of them seem to be) i ignore it since i don''t use ObjectDock. i once installed it, and used it for 3 minutes, before returning to my ObjectBar theme
however, if the question is about one of the topics i consider myself knowledgeable about then i will do my best to help. however, these are fairly rare of late.
on top of all i have just said, of late the message board has been a lot less friendly than it used to be. many of the people who have been here for ages have commented on this, and some have gone into hiding as a consequence.
so, considering that there are a lot of distressed "elders" (for want of a better word) around, perhaps some of the posts are more terse than is normal.
bottom line from my perspective. this is a very helpful place, and the help given normally increases with the effort you make. so, if you make no effort to help yourself, people aren''t impressed.
but if you have done everything in your power, i have been known to perform minor miracles in my attempts to help
hopefully this helps answer your question
[Message Edited]
there has been some cross-posting going on, which explains how i started this:
Aneaka Frature, please take a deep calm breath.
personally, i class help threads into three groups, which need handling separately:
a) technical / software support questions (or problems) with stardock software
threads called "help", "HELP", "i need help", "please help me"c) general question threads with meaningful titles.
i think that covers most to all of them
for class A, this is not the official support method for stardock products. so, paying customers come here, get no support, and get upset. often they are directed to email support @ stardock . com (spaces inserted so you can read it without it being converted) since there are people there who are paid to help. i suspect that is what the reference to getting paid is about.
B. once upon a time when i was new to this board i read and tried to answer all of those threads. somewhere in the last 2 years i have reached the point where i have concluded that if the person cannot give the thread a better title, i don''t want to read it. so, personally, i don''t read these threads, so i don''t try to help. i suspect this is also the case with some of the other helpful people.
C. if the question is about ObjectDock (which most of them seem to be) i ignore it since i don''t use ObjectDock. i once installed it, and used it for 3 minutes, before returning to my ObjectBar theme
however, if the question is about one of the topics i consider myself knowledgeable about then i will do my best to help. however, these are fairly rare of late.
on top of all i have just said, of late the message board has been a lot less friendly than it used to be. many of the people who have been here for ages have commented on this, and some have gone into hiding as a consequence.
so, considering that there are a lot of distressed "elders" (for want of a better word
) around, perhaps some of the posts are more terse than is normal.bottom line from my perspective. this is a very helpful place, and the help given normally increases with the effort you make. so, if you make no effort to help yourself, people aren''t impressed.
but if you have done everything in your power, i have been known to perform minor miracles in my attempts to help
hopefully this helps answer your question
[Message Edited]
MadIce
Reply #13 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:43 PM
Reply #13 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:43 PM
Often you'll see the same group of people answer posts. If these are not arround then sometimes one slips through unanswered. KarmaGirl of Stardock also tries to help out as much as she can. I don't think it is intended that people ignore posts like this. Sometimes one doesn't know the answer and hopes someone else will answer it.
WOM is a weird guy, but I don't feel he is trying to put you down. Even I sometimes want to strangle him.
MadIce runs and hides under his stone as fast as he can
WOM is a weird guy, but I don't feel he is trying to put you down. Even I sometimes want to strangle him.
MadIce runs and hides under his stone as fast as he can
sig101
Reply #14 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:44 PM
Reply #14 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:44 PM
Flamed? I see no flames here. I've been on some boards where flaming is a regular exercise and so far nothing on this thread comes even close.
I think the best way if you're concerned is not just to watch what others do or don't do, but pitch in yourself and help others if you can. Some of us don't have the answer, some questions are best directed to Stardock support (which this is not). As far as I know no one expressly has board duty 24/7 and an obligation to respond to every inquiry. And some people don't just have a simple question, but want to be handcarried through things when they can't be bothered to read the site here or learn about the products they're using and want people to "help" them without making an effort to learn on their own. That does get rather frustrating.
So if you're concerned, start helping others yourself. Certainly there must be some questions you can answer or help with. Don't assume it's everyone else's responsibility.
I think the best way if you're concerned is not just to watch what others do or don't do, but pitch in yourself and help others if you can. Some of us don't have the answer, some questions are best directed to Stardock support (which this is not). As far as I know no one expressly has board duty 24/7 and an obligation to respond to every inquiry. And some people don't just have a simple question, but want to be handcarried through things when they can't be bothered to read the site here or learn about the products they're using and want people to "help" them without making an effort to learn on their own. That does get rather frustrating.
So if you're concerned, start helping others yourself. Certainly there must be some questions you can answer or help with. Don't assume it's everyone else's responsibility.
DavidK
Reply #15 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:47 PM
Reply #15 Saturday, May 3, 2003 2:47 PM
Aneaka - I assume you asked a question that was ignored. I really don't see that as a trend here or believe most people feel that way. If you need a question answered ask it again, maybe it'll go better this time.
There seems to be a misconception that this site has some sort of 'crew' that does support. It's true, the admins try to be as helpful as possible but everyone here, admins included, is here only when they can make the time and because they love what skinning does to your computer. No one gets paid, but even more to the point, no one is here to answer questions. The fact that we do answer so many questions is a testament to the character of the people that frequent this message board.
Skinning used to be something that only seasoned computer tweaks would attempt. Now it's a mainstream attraction and a lot of the people getting excited about it don't realize a couple of basic facts. Like:
All the work you see presented here is free. The artists who make these creations may spend weeks or months making them, with zero compensation. They don't 'owe' you anything, they already gave you their best for free.
The responsibility for knowing how your system works is your own. Every computer user needs to learn what they need to know to make their system work right. That takes time and effort.
This site is supplied with skins made by artists, not programmers. True, they are in a good position to understand how the software works because they make skins for it, but they don't make the software and usualy can't help if the problemn is software related and not skin related.
That being said, I would rate this site a perfect 10 for the helpful efforts of the members. I know of no other skinning site that's as quick or friendly about helping newbies. Sometimes there's a degree of sarcasm or frustration from the responders but that's not the norm and usualy is provoked by 'attitude' on the part of the questioner.
Hang around for awhile and I think you'll agree, we're really pretty helpful and friendly...
There seems to be a misconception that this site has some sort of 'crew' that does support. It's true, the admins try to be as helpful as possible but everyone here, admins included, is here only when they can make the time and because they love what skinning does to your computer. No one gets paid, but even more to the point, no one is here to answer questions. The fact that we do answer so many questions is a testament to the character of the people that frequent this message board.
Skinning used to be something that only seasoned computer tweaks would attempt. Now it's a mainstream attraction and a lot of the people getting excited about it don't realize a couple of basic facts. Like:
All the work you see presented here is free. The artists who make these creations may spend weeks or months making them, with zero compensation. They don't 'owe' you anything, they already gave you their best for free.
The responsibility for knowing how your system works is your own. Every computer user needs to learn what they need to know to make their system work right. That takes time and effort.
This site is supplied with skins made by artists, not programmers. True, they are in a good position to understand how the software works because they make skins for it, but they don't make the software and usualy can't help if the problemn is software related and not skin related.
That being said, I would rate this site a perfect 10 for the helpful efforts of the members. I know of no other skinning site that's as quick or friendly about helping newbies. Sometimes there's a degree of sarcasm or frustration from the responders but that's not the norm and usualy is provoked by 'attitude' on the part of the questioner.
Hang around for awhile and I think you'll agree, we're really pretty helpful and friendly...
Styl-X Design
Reply #16 Saturday, May 3, 2003 3:00 PM
Reply #16 Saturday, May 3, 2003 3:00 PM
Hey, they don't get ignored, only lets take 6 questions.
2 out of 6 are in the faq,
1 is entiridly (what keep the spellchecker so long? typed with CAPITALS
1 is already posted on the messageboard
1 is to difricult to answere,
and the last 1 we answer 
2 out of 6 are in the faq,
1 is entiridly (what keep the spellchecker so long? typed with CAPITALS
1 is already posted on the messageboard
1 is to difricult to answere,
and the last 1 we answer
Aneaka Frature
Reply #17 Saturday, May 3, 2003 3:35 PM
Reply #17 Saturday, May 3, 2003 3:35 PM
Thanks to all who have responded. Your candor is appreciated. I do see a common thread here - all who have replied have varying levels of frustration at repeat questions, misuse/no use of existing resources, etc.
I ask this - if there were more who had the knowledge would that not lessen the load currently carried by the (varyingly) frustrated responders to this post?
Does everyone think that the existing resources are easy for a brand new user to to find/understand/utilize?
I do see a common thread here - all who have replied have varying levels of frustration at repeat questions, misuse/no use of existing resources, etc. I ask this - if there were more who had the knowledge would that not lessen the load currently carried by the (varyingly) frustrated responders to this post?
Does everyone think that the existing resources are easy for a brand new user to to find/understand/utilize?
sig101
Reply #18 Saturday, May 3, 2003 4:24 PM
Reply #18 Saturday, May 3, 2003 4:24 PM
I think if more people did their homework before just downloading skins without thinking about finding out how to use them (a program is necessary to use them and that is evident if one reads the info and links available on the library pages) or trying new apps there would be fewer "what program do I need" questions and such for which info is already available on this site and at Stardock's site. Have you visited the Stardock newsgroups? I browsed there for quite some time before trying any Stardock product. I also read the info about the products available via links from here to Stardock before I downloaded them. And there is much more info available now IMO than there was when I first tried WindowBlinds almost two years ago.
So for just starting out with Stardock products, yes, the basic info is there if people avail themselves of the support resources already available.
And also some people, as DavidK mentioned, try out new apps without having basic knowledge about the computers they're using. I recall one poster blaming the product for problems when he/see didn't haven't a clue of how to download and install apps to their PC. Took a while for those of us trying to help that that was actually the problem. So of course, it wouldn't work. No one trying to help was sarcastic just puzzled until through putting question after question to the poster we realized the poster hadn't actually installed the program on their PC. We explained that one couldn't run the program from the Stardock CD, the program had to be actually installed on the hard drive. And poof! the poster then disappeared.
Again, it's no one's job or obligation here to help out or provide product support. That's not really the purpose of this board. It's the user's obligation to do some of their own homework since it's their PC. People can point them to resources but no one can do it all for them. Some people just need a nudge to info or a quick answer and that's fine. I don't think people begrudge that. And some people do extend themselves beyond that to provide assistance. But that's their choice, not their obligation to do so.
Also, if you've ever tried to help someone who doesn't want to listen and turns nasty, that also discourages people from spending their own time and energy to provide assistance to those who come here frustrated and want to take it out on others. Again, this is a message board, not a support forum. As DavidK said, that people do extend themselves to help is a positive. But it's a gratuitous kindness, not an obligation.
So for just starting out with Stardock products, yes, the basic info is there if people avail themselves of the support resources already available.
And also some people, as DavidK mentioned, try out new apps without having basic knowledge about the computers they're using. I recall one poster blaming the product for problems when he/see didn't haven't a clue of how to download and install apps to their PC. Took a while for those of us trying to help that that was actually the problem. So of course, it wouldn't work. No one trying to help was sarcastic just puzzled until through putting question after question to the poster we realized the poster hadn't actually installed the program on their PC. We explained that one couldn't run the program from the Stardock CD, the program had to be actually installed on the hard drive. And poof! the poster then disappeared.
Again, it's no one's job or obligation here to help out or provide product support. That's not really the purpose of this board. It's the user's obligation to do some of their own homework since it's their PC. People can point them to resources but no one can do it all for them. Some people just need a nudge to info or a quick answer and that's fine. I don't think people begrudge that. And some people do extend themselves beyond that to provide assistance. But that's their choice, not their obligation to do so.
Also, if you've ever tried to help someone who doesn't want to listen and turns nasty, that also discourages people from spending their own time and energy to provide assistance to those who come here frustrated and want to take it out on others. Again, this is a message board, not a support forum. As DavidK said, that people do extend themselves to help is a positive. But it's a gratuitous kindness, not an obligation.
feline
Reply #19 Saturday, May 3, 2003 5:06 PM
Reply #19 Saturday, May 3, 2003 5:06 PM
Aneaka Frature - Does everyone think that the existing resources are easy for a brand new user to to find/understand/utilize?
that depends on the knowledge of the user.
there is a FAQ link at the top of the message board. all the skin sections at this site have links to the program.
if you came here not knowing about skinning programs, there is lots of help available IF you read the site.
if you got the program first, then you should be past the first hurdle already.
there is that famous quote "RTFM".
these days my normal policy on helping people (devoting my limited leasure time to them) is that if they cannot ask a "helpful" question, why should i bother?
i am aware that sounds rather harsh, but i dont want to go through 5 cycles of question and answer to simply get a proper definition of the question. i get enough of that at work
personally, i worked out most of what i know by reading the available links, simply pressing all the buttons i could find in the programs, and the newsgroups
so, if you look, there is a vast amount of info available.
[Message Edited]
that depends on the knowledge of the user.
there is a FAQ link at the top of the message board. all the skin sections at this site have links to the program.
if you came here not knowing about skinning programs, there is lots of help available IF you read the site.
if you got the program first, then you should be past the first hurdle already.
there is that famous quote "RTFM".
these days my normal policy on helping people (devoting my limited leasure time to them) is that if they cannot ask a "helpful" question, why should i bother?
i am aware that sounds rather harsh, but i dont want to go through 5 cycles of question and answer to simply get a proper definition of the question. i get enough of that at work
personally, i worked out most of what i know by reading the available links, simply pressing all the buttons i could find in the programs, and the newsgroups
so, if you look, there is a vast amount of info available.
[Message Edited]
Jafo
Reply #20 Saturday, May 3, 2003 5:09 PM
Reply #20 Saturday, May 3, 2003 5:09 PM
Aneaka....in response to #17....Skinning is a comparatively 'new' entity which, though popular more and more now with the users, the skins are only being made by a relatively few people. For example, with 700,000 [nearly] members interested enough to register and make use of the skins available, even if there were 1000 skinners that would effectively average out at perhaps 700 answers to the same question/s by each.
It's fair to say that some, or many 'may' tend to feel less inclined after the first 100 or so...
Quite often the quality of answer is limited by the quality of the question...a bit of the 'GIGO' problem...
It's fair to say that some, or many 'may' tend to feel less inclined after the first 100 or so...
Quite often the quality of answer is limited by the quality of the question...a bit of the 'GIGO' problem...
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Reply #1 Saturday, May 3, 2003 1:17 PM