Excellent questions. I didn't know that skinning is a dangerous hobby.

This wasn't just about skinning software. It was about having a skinnable OS.

..... and I was not suggesting that SD's software (hell not even any other skinning software) was a 'security risk'.  I was pointing out (in response mind you) that the decisions of OS makers in locking more areas of the code down (thus making skinning more unlikely) had more to do with security concerns over sometimes easily exploitable code within their own software than some conspiracy theory floated about removing the individual's choices!

 Of  course Jafo has raised the most pertinent point of all.  It is all about the buck, and having to pay support desk people (even if you're only paying them a dollar a day ) to deal with non-important OS issues (like skinning related questions/bugs) goes against the shareholders profit margins so.....

I think Apple sees it as a benefit that the OS is not customizable. Microsoft probably doesn't have a clear stance on customization. If people want to skin Windows, they can do it, but it's not something MS will encourage.

I can see that.

Yet, I think OSX would be able to double sales numbers if customization was allowed. I know people (like myself) that would never buy a Mac just because of the (weird) UI.

I doubt there are many people that care about customization on a Mac. Even when there was some tools available, it was even a smaller niche than what Windows customization is now.

But Mac customization was never anything more than a new skin. If you want a taskbar and integrated application menus you have to use Windows or Linux. So for the majority of users buying a Mac meant adjusting to a "weird" UI.

If OSX was customizable and if Stardock made a "Windows UI" (taskbar and integrated menus) for OSX I think there would be serious growth for OSX. I do believe that the UI is holding back that platform in a major way.

How many people want to use a dock in Windows? 10-15% max. That's how big the potential for OSX is unless they allow customization. OSX UI doesn't make sense (sorry those who like it) and without customization there is very little growth potential for the platform.

It's Apple's philosophy to keep things locked down even if it costs them a ton of potential users.

Windows is changing and a lot of users are looking for alternatives. If OSX could provide a "Windows experience" it would be a good Windows replacement. But OSX doesn't want to cater to Windows users. Nice hardware and nice software, but a UI that screams "I am different and if you want to use me YOU have to adapt...

Why am I wasting my time writing about Apple? It's a wasted platform. So much potential going to waste. There could have been a Maccustomize community and a greater gaming community on OSX if Apple had allowed more "geekiness" on the platform. OSX is like a nice hotel room. Functional, but very, very BORING. It can probably kill you in the long run.

So what you're saying is that Stardock customers ring MS support when things eff up with WB and/or IP?  Okay, so that's why MS is hard coding more and more of Win 10 as time passes?

Now that is bullshit!

As for a load of crap, well we will see just how much crap it is when MS puts its full agenda into full swing.  As for paranoia, well the only time I feel that is when I go to the doctor... just in case I'm told I have to have something cut off... or out.  No, it's not paranoia!  A progression of changes commenced with Win 10 that will see the end of system 32 programs, with 'apps' replacing them.  As it is several Control Panel utilities have been replaced by apps under the new 'Settings' heading, and there will be more like-minded changes to come.  Plain and simple, MS is building its own version of the walled garden... where users will have to conform to MS' wishes, rules and regulations.  If you happen to see it another way, well that's not my problem.

Oh, and as far as the enforced updates go, MS has wiped out my bluetooth keyboard several times now with an update my system simply does not need.  I uninstall it every time, but within a few days it is downloaded and installed yet again.  My most recent update issue is one that cripples my wi-fi adapter.  Despite having the latest Intel drivers, Windows Update sees fit to download and install its 'own' version, thus significantly effing up my internet speed.  Last night it went down to a little better than diail-up [I have ADSL 2+], and at first I thought it was a repeat of the cabling issues outside, but no, when I checked everything before calling my ISP, luckily, I found that it was the installation of wi-fi drivers I didn't need.  Thanks a lot, MS, you lovely bunch of thick b******s

I never had these issues with XP, Vista, Win 7 or Win 8, so yeah, I hate Win 10 with good reason... without mentioning the programs it uninstalled without notice or consent.  Previous Windows editions never did this... not that MS wants us running any of those anymore...eg: the forced 'downgrades' on my HP 2-in-1 and other peoples machines.

Anyway, I have much to do in the real world and bitching about Win 10 ain't getting it done.

No.

I shall type more slowly so you can follow.

MS never provided 'real' skinnability themselves.  THEY were quite happy to let Stardock do it...AND ALSO TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY for sorting out the issues arising from said skinnability.

It is even more ideal [for MS] to prevent people from fucking their systems by ill-advised 'tinkering'.

10 is just one more step [not the first at all] in that direction.

As for locking down 32bit programs in favor of 'apps' ....that too is bullshit.  Why then pray tell can I be happily running PSP SIX [not 16] on my 10 system?  Why can I have ACDsee v3 also on it?

Both are more than 15 years old.

No issues.

What, do you think I'm fechen stupid or something?  Just because you've had no issues thus far and think differently to me don't make you right... OR any smarter.

I am not the only one who thinks MS is building its own walled garden and will eventually phase out system 32 programs in favour of Store bought apps.  Okay, so you don't want to believe it, I don't care, but that will be the natural progression of things now the key elements are in place.... like it or not.

Oh...so it hasn't happened at all yet...but that only logically means it WILL happen?

The stance is patently absurd....and has no basis in reality.

What annoys the crap out of me is the constant MS [and Win10] bashing on every thread, even those of absolutely no relevance.  This one is about skinning a Mac.  Nothing in that references MS at all.

Remember....this site is called WINcustomize, not "MS-bashers-are-us".  There are plenty of Unix/Mac sites for that.

But still we get some rubbish about "So what you're saying is that Stardock customers ring MS support when things eff up with WB and/or IP?" which simply shows poor comprehension.

Again, and let it be the last time...Microsoft was [and still is] quite happy to leave any and all GUI modification [skinning] to third party developers/companies as it is those third parties who then field the ensuing support issues.  Microsoft does not.

Apple does the same, if and when someone pops up with a Mac 'skinnable'.

not really, depends on the definition of "real" i guess.

after all they introduced a format for custom visual styles with Windows XP. not much happened with it though. after Luna with it's three variants they only released four official additional styles. it was not a success. let's be honest, some people used Luna, some used Windowsblinds, some StyleXP and some hacked uxtheme.dll, but the vast majority picked Windows Classic from the theme selector. Microsoft still uses this format (with some changes).

Mac OS had something similar earlier. preview (but not release) versions of Mac OS 8/9 came with custom skins. back into the dark ages of skinning:

Gizmo:

Hi-Tech:

Drawing Board:

Meh ......since I have always concerned myself more with what was under the hood so to speak, I have without exception used any/all OSes throughout the years as is.  Meaning the colours and/or theme they booted with on the very first boot is how they stayed until I changed systems / OS.  I can honestly say I am sooooo boring I haven't even changed the desktop wallpaper from the stock OS......ever.  For me it is a great way to ensure I will always keep upgrading.  When I finally tire of a desktop wallpaper.........new OS time!  

Okay, so you don't see it.... YET.  That's fine, but it doesn't make me an idiot because I [and others] do.  If you can't see the parallels between what Apple did with its latest OS-X version and what MS IS doing with Win 10, then fine, but let's not turn the discussion into something it needn't be.

It's not MS/Win 10 "bashing".... nor poor comprehension.  Far from it!  Microsoft has done things that I've liked... and 'some' elements of Win 10 are good; however, I'm calling it as I see it, and whether or not you agree is irrelevant to what MS is doing.  There are parallels with what Apple HAS done and MS IS doing, and it's not necessarily about skinning.  Other areas of Win 10 are being altered and/or locked down, just as Apple did with E! Capitan. 

You can thank mobile devices for the changes to Windows on the desktop... you know, the 'apps' and the eventual phasing out of system 32.  Think about it... it makes sense.  If MS can service phones, tablets and PCs with just the one version of Win 10, it not only saves in development costs but also in support services.  As it is, Windows Phone Apps will already run on the desktop and vice versa. That's the reality.... an eventual walled garden and apps from the Store.

As for relevance, the point was made that Windows "can be customised".  Phoon and I just pointed out that it is becoming a thing of the past.  It might not happen today, but it will come to pass as MS implements it plan for Windows 10.  Again, it's not about bashing MS or Win 10, it's about facing reality and preparing for the worst.... being that an unskinnable OS is the most dismal thing a discerning PC user can think of. 

So no, I don't need to go to a Unix or Mac site to address Windows users regarding the inevitable.  And let me be clear, it is NOT just about skinning.... MS leaving that up to 3rd parties.  The entire Windows environment is changing to better suit MS' long term plans/goals.... of reducing development and support costs with a uniform OS across the 3 major platforms.  Now how hard is that to understand?

You know...the whole point of all that 'evil' data/privacy bullshit is because the OS is trying to have the same feature-set as the mobile phone that everyone seems to be entirely happy with...

Like...where is the closest Maccas to where I am....you are required to accept GPS tracking.

Well, Einstein...the same thing applies to Win 10.

It doesn't make it evil....but what it DOES do is fuel online paranoia.  Clearly the reason MS wants to know...is so they can squat in your house and eat your porridge when you aren't there.

The issue with whether or not I agree is actually about whether or not the alternative is fantasy invented by the paranoid for whatever absurdist agenda they're paid to represent.

Google 'The sky is falling' and I bet Microsoft will be blamed.

Not agreeing with me doesn't automatically make you right.  Chances are you're quite wrong about just about all of it....but there are plenty of supporters of your stance as sometimes it's just fun to be plain silly.

Exactly nothing MS has done with Win10 is actually evil, however some if it could be considered 'annoying'.

And that can be said for every OS release MS has had.

On a site promoting Windows GUI skinning there's no room for the flat-earth equivalent alleging doom and gloom on every thread available.

Just pretend it's Global Warming and you are always right...and move on.

I will agree here!  What MS has done, and will keep doing, is refine Windows 10 to better accommodate its future vision and needs, etc.  So no, it isn't evil, as such, just damned annoying that updates and other unwanted aspects of Win 10 are compulsory... whether users need them or not.  There are some aspects of Win 10 I quite like, but overall it is the most annoying Windows OS I have ever used. When MS stops pushing unwanted/unnecessary updates that keep feching things up, then maybe I could get to like it.  Until then it is a dog and I don't like it.

Anyway, Win 10 is a pain in my arse and I'm done talking about it.