US is going to war tomarrow... dang...
Sunday, March 16, 2003 by IPlural | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
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kona0197
Reply #1222 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 8:56 PM
Reply #1222 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 8:56 PM
@ jennyc :
Right on. About time someone here stood up and said what needed to be said without saying it candy powered. I tottally agree with your statement and support it.
Right on. About time someone here stood up and said what needed to be said without saying it candy powered. I tottally agree with your statement and support it.
Jafo
Reply #1223 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 8:58 PM
Reply #1223 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 8:58 PM
jennyc....enough with the "Growing a set of nads will probably never be on your agenda but it would be nice if you COULD grow a set and be a man."....that's getting personally 'specific', and isn't acceptable, irrespective of whether you agree with an opinion or not.
Just to clarify...yes, I DO know quite a bit about history and reality "on a historical/political level"...but align myself with paxx's views a lot more closely than you obviously imagine.
2 facts are quite 'important' and relevant.
Iraq has the second largest oil reserves on the planet. [who buys/uses them at present is irrelevant].
The US is the largest 'user' of fossil fuels on the planet.
A quote from Frank Herbert...'he who controls the spice controls the empire' [something like that, anyway].
Guess what the 'spice' is?...
Just to clarify...yes, I DO know quite a bit about history and reality "on a historical/political level"...but align myself with paxx's views a lot more closely than you obviously imagine.
2 facts are quite 'important' and relevant.
Iraq has the second largest oil reserves on the planet. [who buys/uses them at present is irrelevant].
The US is the largest 'user' of fossil fuels on the planet.
A quote from Frank Herbert...'he who controls the spice controls the empire' [something like that, anyway].
Guess what the 'spice' is?...
bakerstreet
Reply #1224 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:03 PM
Reply #1224 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:03 PM
jennyc: that was out of line. If there were a lot more people like paxx in the world, there wouldn't be as many problems as there are. It takes all kinds. Checks and balances. If paxx has any fault, it is that he judges everyone by the stadards he holds himself to, and many don't deserve it. He assumes people will behave in ways he feels are logical or ethical, and sadly the worst people in the world have no concept of his sort of ethics.
People who are truly interested in peace are worth their weight in gold. Peace is what this is about, regardless of what the jaded or hateful believe. It isn't out of revenge that we are destroying Saddam Hussein's regime, it is to prevent further atricities. What paxx wants is why we are doing this. If he can't comprehend how evil some people are, then perhaps that is a testiment to how safe the world is slowly becoming.
Adolescents who riot, celebrities that can't find Iraq on a map, and world leaders that cry peace because they have made lucrative deals with evil men, none of these have any business calling themselves lovers of peace. I believe paxx is genuinely concerned with peace, so we are on the same side.
People who are truly interested in peace are worth their weight in gold. Peace is what this is about, regardless of what the jaded or hateful believe. It isn't out of revenge that we are destroying Saddam Hussein's regime, it is to prevent further atricities. What paxx wants is why we are doing this. If he can't comprehend how evil some people are, then perhaps that is a testiment to how safe the world is slowly becoming.
Adolescents who riot, celebrities that can't find Iraq on a map, and world leaders that cry peace because they have made lucrative deals with evil men, none of these have any business calling themselves lovers of peace. I believe paxx is genuinely concerned with peace, so we are on the same side.
jennyc
Reply #1225 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:05 PM
Reply #1225 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:05 PM
Jafo...pardon my French...er Paxx... 
Sorry Paxx. Heated talk. Calmed down now.
Jafo, I hate gas guzzle cars... I walk mostly or ride my bike...I don't drive. I refused to learn to drive on account of my personal feelings that dependence on a vehicle that is detrimental to the air and land cannot be a good thing to learn to do. When the solar powered cars come out... well...they will be slower...nobody likes slow cars...but we HAVE to sacrifice SOME place. "P
Sorry Paxx. Heated talk. Calmed down now.
Jafo, I hate gas guzzle cars... I walk mostly or ride my bike...I don't drive. I refused to learn to drive on account of my personal feelings that dependence on a vehicle that is detrimental to the air and land cannot be a good thing to learn to do. When the solar powered cars come out... well...they will be slower...nobody likes slow cars...but we HAVE to sacrifice SOME place. "P
Xerraire
Reply #1226 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:06 PM
Reply #1226 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:06 PM
jafo
what makes those two facts important and relevant?
what makes those two facts important and relevant?
Jafo
Reply #1228 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:07 PM
Reply #1228 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:07 PM
Yes...if you learn only one thing from this thread, make it the content of Bakerstreet's post number #1226.
[except for 'atricities'...'atrocities'...
]
[except for 'atricities'...'atrocities'...
]
jennyc
Reply #1229 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:09 PM
Reply #1229 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:09 PM
Xerraire... We are judged on masse...
We are not judged as individuals...but rather as a mass clump of Americans.
We ARE all separate. Just as I bet the Iraqui people are as well.
We are not judged as individuals...but rather as a mass clump of Americans.
We ARE all separate. Just as I bet the Iraqui people are as well.
Jafo
Reply #1231 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:13 PM
Reply #1231 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:13 PM
Xerraire...
One day, the vocal, voting majority will demand their continued 'right' to personal private transport....at a similarly affordable standard.
One day, Industrial giants will coerce governments into maintaining their profit levels via continued availability of fossil fuels and their by-products.
The 'Industrialized West' will be looking even more closely at dwindling reserves and be seeking a 'solution'.
This isn't rocket science....simply the pressure of supply and demand...
One day, the vocal, voting majority will demand their continued 'right' to personal private transport....at a similarly affordable standard.
One day, Industrial giants will coerce governments into maintaining their profit levels via continued availability of fossil fuels and their by-products.
The 'Industrialized West' will be looking even more closely at dwindling reserves and be seeking a 'solution'.
This isn't rocket science....simply the pressure of supply and demand...
bakerstreet
Reply #1232 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:18 PM
Reply #1232 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:18 PM
jafo: unfortunately "[who buys/uses them at present is irrelevant]" isn't so. In order for you to say that we are doing this for oil you need to prove that we *need* the oil enough to warrant the expense. Last time I checked we get 18% of our oil from Iraq. Saudi Arabia alone has said they can adjust output and offset a total loss of Iraq's oil for the duration of any conflict.
Do you really think the amount of benefit we may get from a new Iraq is anything to compared to the 100+ billion dollars this is gonna cost? France's whole oil deal with Saddam was only worth 60 billion... We'd have to get our oil for free for quite a while to make up for this. You think the rest of the Middle East would allow that?
...and while "The US is the largest 'user' of fossil fuels on the planet.", what percentage of the world economy would you expect we account for? You get what you pay for.
Maybe if we *all* burned alcohol instead of 'petrol', there'd not be a problem. Next time you are dodging one of those 'efficiency' Porsches, lasso it for me.
Do you really think the amount of benefit we may get from a new Iraq is anything to compared to the 100+ billion dollars this is gonna cost? France's whole oil deal with Saddam was only worth 60 billion... We'd have to get our oil for free for quite a while to make up for this. You think the rest of the Middle East would allow that?
...and while "The US is the largest 'user' of fossil fuels on the planet.", what percentage of the world economy would you expect we account for? You get what you pay for.
Maybe if we *all* burned alcohol instead of 'petrol', there'd not be a problem. Next time you are dodging one of those 'efficiency' Porsches, lasso it for me.
queezendorf
Reply #1233 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:21 PM
Reply #1233 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:21 PM
...even if we don't "need" the oil... im sure someone wouldn't mind making something off the "spoils" huh? =P
Bangkokboy
Reply #1234 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:22 PM
Reply #1234 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:22 PM
jennyc - you're dead on about Saddam Hussein, but your attack on paxx is based on something you can't possibly know: the deepest intentions which underlie his life ideology. he's made it clear in earlier parts of this thread that he has honest convictions and the courage to live them. i'm an old vietnam-era warhorse who volunteered for the war when other safe options were available. if i can have the utmost respect for paxx's point of view with regard to human life, then it shouldn't be that hard for people to understand.
sorry, paxx, i know you don't need me defending you - as you said earlier, you've "heard all the rhetoric before".
sorry, paxx, i know you don't need me defending you - as you said earlier, you've "heard all the rhetoric before".
IPlural
Reply #1236 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:26 PM
Reply #1236 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:26 PM
#1209 by bakerstreet -
wasn't Nigeria or was it Algeria the first that was under consideration for the state of Israel
before Palestine was divided up?
wasn't Nigeria or was it Algeria the first that was under consideration for the state of Israel
before Palestine was divided up?
Jafo
Reply #1237 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:31 PM
Reply #1237 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:31 PM
Baker.....convince me that were the reserves in Iraq permanently made unavailable to the West [yes, I know, they'd be cutting off their nose to spite their face], that the resultant reshuffling of 'options' would not result in adverse changes to the Oil price, and therefore have a significant global effect on world economy.
Admittedly, an earthquake in Tokyo would be MORE profound, but still, energy pricing is pivotal to the Global Community [not 'just' the US]...
Admittedly, an earthquake in Tokyo would be MORE profound, but still, energy pricing is pivotal to the Global Community [not 'just' the US]...
jennyc
Reply #1238 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:33 PM
Reply #1238 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:33 PM
#1226 by bakerstreet - 4/1/2003 9:03:41 PM
jennyc: that was out of line. If there were a lot more people like paxx in the world, there wouldn't be as many problems as there are.
Hmm. I disagree. I believe in peace but I also believe in fighting for what is right. I want peace but not at the cost of losing my voice...my so soul...my rights...
Paxx is a big boy... You can stick up for him but I'm sure he could care less what I think of him anyhow.
How much 'losing' does one need to feel they better start fighting in order to win back what they lost?
I lost my feeling of safety in America.
How prejudiced has it made us Americans?
I can ONLY speak for myself but...
I was in Costco today and getting some supplies for my small business and sure enough there was a muslum couple (I only knew this because they weren't wearing Western clothing and the woman hand her head swathed in a head covering).
Now...I was a bit curious and looked her over for a few seconds and then went back at my tasks. Now I could have been TOTALLY paranoid and figured they might be some suicide bombers or people planting some sort of creepy bio-attacks but nope. Not even a second glance to them and I was fine.
That's me, and American who loves their fellow American no matter what race or religion...we are IN THIS TOGETHER and I don't EVER want an American Muslum person to feel bad for being themselves in my Country.
Until the point is hammered home...that we are Freeing a people almost ENSLAVED by a sick regime who is willing to rap, kill and mame at any flicker of dissention then we still have a LONG way to go.
jennyc: that was out of line. If there were a lot more people like paxx in the world, there wouldn't be as many problems as there are.
Hmm. I disagree. I believe in peace but I also believe in fighting for what is right. I want peace but not at the cost of losing my voice...my so soul...my rights...
Paxx is a big boy... You can stick up for him but I'm sure he could care less what I think of him anyhow.
How much 'losing' does one need to feel they better start fighting in order to win back what they lost?
I lost my feeling of safety in America.
How prejudiced has it made us Americans?
I can ONLY speak for myself but...
I was in Costco today and getting some supplies for my small business and sure enough there was a muslum couple (I only knew this because they weren't wearing Western clothing and the woman hand her head swathed in a head covering).
Now...I was a bit curious and looked her over for a few seconds and then went back at my tasks. Now I could have been TOTALLY paranoid and figured they might be some suicide bombers or people planting some sort of creepy bio-attacks but nope. Not even a second glance to them and I was fine.
That's me, and American who loves their fellow American no matter what race or religion...we are IN THIS TOGETHER and I don't EVER want an American Muslum person to feel bad for being themselves in my Country.
Until the point is hammered home...that we are Freeing a people almost ENSLAVED by a sick regime who is willing to rap, kill and mame at any flicker of dissention then we still have a LONG way to go.
jennyc
Reply #1239 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:35 PM
Reply #1239 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:35 PM
willing to rap? 
Rape.
Rap...hmm...that should go too. KIDDING
Rape.
Rap...hmm...that should go too. KIDDING
Bangkokboy
Reply #1240 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:49 PM
Reply #1240 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 9:49 PM
"I don't EVER want an American Muslum person to feel bad for being themselves in my Country" - jennyc
this reads funny - maybe "my" should be "our".
this reads funny - maybe "my" should be "our".
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Reply #1221 Tuesday, April 1, 2003 8:55 PM