US is going to war tomarrow... dang...
Sunday, March 16, 2003 by IPlural | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
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Xerraire
Reply #1002 Friday, March 28, 2003 5:03 PM
Reply #1002 Friday, March 28, 2003 5:03 PM
paxx,
when I said I personally didn't care to bad mouth my president, you are right, that is my exact personal view...but I meant that in regards to being overseas....
When I travel and meet others from all over, I feel like, I am representing the United States. I try not to be negative-period.
The Dixie Chicks if I am not mistaken were also overseas when they made that comment.
I was only mentioning, my personal view when I travel abroad, I always try to represent where I come from in the best light possible, and at the same time, I blend in the soil of any country where I am visiting, living, or staying with utmost respect for them as well.
Its just a simple policy of mine.
when I said I personally didn't care to bad mouth my president, you are right, that is my exact personal view...but I meant that in regards to being overseas....
When I travel and meet others from all over, I feel like, I am representing the United States. I try not to be negative-period.
The Dixie Chicks if I am not mistaken were also overseas when they made that comment.
I was only mentioning, my personal view when I travel abroad, I always try to represent where I come from in the best light possible, and at the same time, I blend in the soil of any country where I am visiting, living, or staying with utmost respect for them as well.
Its just a simple policy of mine.
Bangkokboy
Reply #1003 Friday, March 28, 2003 5:05 PM
Reply #1003 Friday, March 28, 2003 5:05 PM
paxx - can you settle a bet for us? the hypothesis is that hanging a yellow ribbon would probably be in violation of Quebec city ordinance, but it's OK to hang one that's jaune. 
Xerraire
Reply #1004 Friday, March 28, 2003 5:22 PM
Reply #1004 Friday, March 28, 2003 5:22 PM
karma girl
there is a song called
"Tie a Yellow Round the Old Oak Tree"
Its a rather old song, but that is where the idea came from about using yellow ribbons, and that song was way before any Gulf War this one or any one past.
Every since that song was popular, people have been tying yellow ribbons to welcome home loved ones, even when the odds looked bad, to show there was hope, whether it be from war, trips or otherwise.
I had an exchange student in my home for one year, when she went back to Holland, her family welcomed her home with yellow ribbons everywhere. She was pleased.
So, its not totally about war, or troops.
there is a song called
"Tie a Yellow Round the Old Oak Tree"
Its a rather old song, but that is where the idea came from about using yellow ribbons, and that song was way before any Gulf War this one or any one past.
Every since that song was popular, people have been tying yellow ribbons to welcome home loved ones, even when the odds looked bad, to show there was hope, whether it be from war, trips or otherwise.
I had an exchange student in my home for one year, when she went back to Holland, her family welcomed her home with yellow ribbons everywhere. She was pleased.
So, its not totally about war, or troops.
paxx
Reply #1005 Friday, March 28, 2003 6:31 PM
Reply #1005 Friday, March 28, 2003 6:31 PM
Bangkokboy: lets not go there.
As for the real reason for this war, only time will tell us who was right. Lets see what happens after. Will the future government be an American puppet that gives the US control over the Iraki oil, or will the US allow a really democratically elected government decide what it wants to do with the oil, including keeping it as a national resource?
I'm hoping its the latter, I am. Not sure I believe it, but time will tell us the truth about this war.
As for the real reason for this war, only time will tell us who was right. Lets see what happens after. Will the future government be an American puppet that gives the US control over the Iraki oil, or will the US allow a really democratically elected government decide what it wants to do with the oil, including keeping it as a national resource?
I'm hoping its the latter, I am. Not sure I believe it, but time will tell us the truth about this war.
Xerraire
Reply #1006 Friday, March 28, 2003 6:55 PM
Reply #1006 Friday, March 28, 2003 6:55 PM
paxx
that is a good attitude. Its normal to have preconceived notions. But its wise to usually wait and see. As we get older we learn that more and more.
that is a good attitude. Its normal to have preconceived notions. But its wise to usually wait and see. As we get older we learn that more and more.
moshi
Reply #1007 Friday, March 28, 2003 7:21 PM
Reply #1007 Friday, March 28, 2003 7:21 PM
who cares about the war on Iraq. did anybody see Rumsfeld today? he´s already preparing evidence for starting war on Iran and Syria. 
bakerstreet
Reply #1008 Friday, March 28, 2003 7:37 PM
Reply #1008 Friday, March 28, 2003 7:37 PM
paxx: no offense, but a large percentage of the world, and even a few people arguing here, don't believe the US has a real, democratically elected government anyway. Add to that the utter, evil lies that governments and clerics in the middle east are spreading even now, there is *no* way anyone will accept the government that is created will be anything but an American puppet... that is unless they hate us.
Actually, I think that is pretty much the idea, now. If you oppose the US, you are legit, if you don't, you are a puppet.
****
lol, i wanted to say, too, how insanely funny i find it that people around the world are boycotting McDonald's. Are they aware that the people who own the individual restaurants and work in them are their countrymen? Do they think that the US, corporate owner of the franchise will pay for the damage they do to the restaurants, or will it be the insurance companies in that nation?
When I don't buy french wine or cheese, I buy some other kind. The guy who runs the store still gets paid and he just orders less French products from the importer next month. The importers themselves handle stuff from all over the world, so they will just do the same and reduce their stock in French products.
Anyway, I don't understand 'peace' protesters that mace, fight with, and throw acid at police, destroy property, make death threats, etc. Are the police being attacked somehow responsible for the war? Wanna talk about senseless violence, hippy kids?
IMHO, most of these people are the same useless rich kids that show up at all the world economic summits, world cup tournaments, etc.
There are many in the US that really don't like the idea that we have so many global partnerships, anyway. I think all this anti-US sentiment will go far in making the point that we should cut way back on the money we spend on aid and military support for 'allies', and ramp up that protectionism that was squashed during the NAFTA debate.
Actually, I think that is pretty much the idea, now. If you oppose the US, you are legit, if you don't, you are a puppet.
****
lol, i wanted to say, too, how insanely funny i find it that people around the world are boycotting McDonald's. Are they aware that the people who own the individual restaurants and work in them are their countrymen? Do they think that the US, corporate owner of the franchise will pay for the damage they do to the restaurants, or will it be the insurance companies in that nation?
When I don't buy french wine or cheese, I buy some other kind. The guy who runs the store still gets paid and he just orders less French products from the importer next month. The importers themselves handle stuff from all over the world, so they will just do the same and reduce their stock in French products.
Anyway, I don't understand 'peace' protesters that mace, fight with, and throw acid at police, destroy property, make death threats, etc. Are the police being attacked somehow responsible for the war? Wanna talk about senseless violence, hippy kids?
IMHO, most of these people are the same useless rich kids that show up at all the world economic summits, world cup tournaments, etc.
There are many in the US that really don't like the idea that we have so many global partnerships, anyway. I think all this anti-US sentiment will go far in making the point that we should cut way back on the money we spend on aid and military support for 'allies', and ramp up that protectionism that was squashed during the NAFTA debate.
joetheblow
Reply #1009 Friday, March 28, 2003 8:25 PM
Reply #1009 Friday, March 28, 2003 8:25 PM
I wonder what would happen if things were just left alone?
DavidK
Reply #1010 Friday, March 28, 2003 8:52 PM
Reply #1010 Friday, March 28, 2003 8:52 PM
Iraq will likely get their share of the revenues from their oil. That's usually the way it works. The oil companies that are involved will get their profits too. That's also the way it works. Oil companies don't go into a country and run the business for free. They make billions of dollars. The difference in a US run Iraq and an Iraqi run Iraq is who the oil companies are. Tens of billions in oil contracts with other countries are out the window when the US plants its flag. Then US and British oil companies get the billions that would have gone elsewhere. So if someone brings up oil what they're really referring to is oil contracts which determine who gets the profits, the enormous infrastructure contracts and the ability to determine where the oil goes and at what price. It's not a simple deal of someone "taking" the oil. Plus there's a huge importance in the geopolitical makeup of a region and strategic control. But nobody's suggesting that's why we're at war. Companies affiliated with Condoleza Rice(Chevron), Dick Cheney(Haliburton, Brown & Root) and the Bush/Bin Laden families(Delta Oil, Carlyle) are only getting these billion dollar contracts because they just happen to be in that business...
it's just a coincidence.
and I know that because I heard it on TV today...
The yellow ribbon thing is about as absurd as the 60 year old Law Professor that's the head of the Judicial Oversight Committee getting arrested and taken to jail for refusing to remove an anti-war T-shirt he had just purchased in the very same mall that had him arrested.
I'll be gone for a while so I'll miss a lot of the lively discussion in this thread. Keep yourselves safe and don't be unwilling to keep an open mind. Remember what Senator Byrd said last week;
"America's true power lies not in its will to intimidate, but in its ability to inspire." http://byrd.senate.gov/byrd_speeches/byrd_speeches_2003march/byrd_speeches_2003march_list/byrd_speeches_2003march_list_4.html
it's just a coincidence.
and I know that because I heard it on TV today...
The yellow ribbon thing is about as absurd as the 60 year old Law Professor that's the head of the Judicial Oversight Committee getting arrested and taken to jail for refusing to remove an anti-war T-shirt he had just purchased in the very same mall that had him arrested.
I'll be gone for a while so I'll miss a lot of the lively discussion in this thread. Keep yourselves safe and don't be unwilling to keep an open mind. Remember what Senator Byrd said last week;
"America's true power lies not in its will to intimidate, but in its ability to inspire." http://byrd.senate.gov/byrd_speeches/byrd_speeches_2003march/byrd_speeches_2003march_list/byrd_speeches_2003march_list_4.html
paxx
Reply #1011 Friday, March 28, 2003 9:00 PM
Reply #1011 Friday, March 28, 2003 9:00 PM
Of course renaming French Fries makes much more sense.
Xerraire
Reply #1012 Friday, March 28, 2003 9:01 PM
Reply #1012 Friday, March 28, 2003 9:01 PM
Nice quote, and let's inspire one another.
Take care David. Get some good photos?
Take care David. Get some good photos?
paxx
Reply #1013 Friday, March 28, 2003 9:23 PM
Reply #1013 Friday, March 28, 2003 9:23 PM
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it. "
- Voltaire (one of those darn Frenchmen)
- Voltaire (one of those darn Frenchmen)
yrag2
Reply #1014 Friday, March 28, 2003 9:31 PM
Reply #1014 Friday, March 28, 2003 9:31 PM
...did you mean 'French" or 'Freedom' men?????????? 
Xerraire
Reply #1015 Friday, March 28, 2003 9:44 PM
Reply #1015 Friday, March 28, 2003 9:44 PM
He also wrote:
"Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes."
Seems kinda fitting if one reads this whole thread!
"Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes."
Seems kinda fitting if one reads this whole thread!
paxx
Reply #1016 Friday, March 28, 2003 9:52 PM
Reply #1016 Friday, March 28, 2003 9:52 PM
Hey, I just learned something.
There was a documentary about arab TV stations just now.
Did you know that Al Jazira is based in Qatar and that the government of 5 arab countries called back their ambassador in Qatar to protest against Al Jazira? Also, there are a few arab countries, including Iraq and Saoudi Arabia, where satelite dishes are outlawed (and therefore chains such as Al Jazira). People have to hide them in water tanks on their roof. Al Jazira claims to try to raise polemic and raise questions, they challenge governments, increase awareness amoung arab populations.
Of course, their focus is mainly pro Arab (after all I doubt CNN will ever be anti American). But amoung the Arab world, never had they seen a television station that criticises governments, and encourage the people to seek democracy.
It was an interesting diverging point of view from what I've heard of Al Jazira.
There was a documentary about arab TV stations just now.
Did you know that Al Jazira is based in Qatar and that the government of 5 arab countries called back their ambassador in Qatar to protest against Al Jazira? Also, there are a few arab countries, including Iraq and Saoudi Arabia, where satelite dishes are outlawed (and therefore chains such as Al Jazira). People have to hide them in water tanks on their roof. Al Jazira claims to try to raise polemic and raise questions, they challenge governments, increase awareness amoung arab populations.
Of course, their focus is mainly pro Arab (after all I doubt CNN will ever be anti American). But amoung the Arab world, never had they seen a television station that criticises governments, and encourage the people to seek democracy.
It was an interesting diverging point of view from what I've heard of Al Jazira.
paxx
Reply #1017 Friday, March 28, 2003 9:55 PM
Reply #1017 Friday, March 28, 2003 9:55 PM
Xerraire, how aboutthis one:
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
Voltaire
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
Voltaire
paxx
Reply #1018 Friday, March 28, 2003 10:03 PM
Reply #1018 Friday, March 28, 2003 10:03 PM
And finally, one of my pesonnal favorites:
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
Voltaire
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
Voltaire
joetheblow
Reply #1019 Friday, March 28, 2003 10:20 PM
Reply #1019 Friday, March 28, 2003 10:20 PM
I read of Voltaire in school. It was forced on us.
Didn't understand much of it until later on, way after high school, and something else..(can't remember now)
hey how about Fox News? I don't think anyone thinks it is anti-american
Yes Davidk, it is a strange coincidence of the relationships... I would like Iraq to control their own oil. Its funny how American and british oil companies will benifit the most from this. why not other contries too??? Hopefully, the money will come easy to most Iraqies and they can live better lives. Eventually they will have thier own goverment (I estamait 2 years) and control of thier own decisions... with help from the US... muuuhahahahahaa
Didn't understand much of it until later on, way after high school, and something else..(can't remember now)
hey how about Fox News? I don't think anyone thinks it is anti-american
Yes Davidk, it is a strange coincidence of the relationships... I would like Iraq to control their own oil. Its funny how American and british oil companies will benifit the most from this. why not other contries too??? Hopefully, the money will come easy to most Iraqies and they can live better lives. Eventually they will have thier own goverment (I estamait 2 years) and control of thier own decisions... with help from the US... muuuhahahahahaa
joetheblow
Reply #1020 Friday, March 28, 2003 10:29 PM
Reply #1020 Friday, March 28, 2003 10:29 PM
ok that tears it!!! where can I get a message board spell checker??
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Reply #1001 Friday, March 28, 2003 4:38 PM
If you noticed many outlets are more pro-war than anything and that might scue there information. Other countries show how many civilians died (which is true) while here they show how big the tanks are and over powering the army is (which is also true)
Soooooo.... there might be a little 'spin' if you will on how the news is being reported. Although I do think many news agencies are doing fairly good in reporting facts and not just sesationalism power plays.
anyway... now that we where forced by Bush to basically go into this thing, and for that matter sopport him because we want to win, I hope they make the right decisions and if this is going to be a war then fight to end it. Don't drag it out and make it some sort of 'tit for tat' engagement. Show them why they can not hide behind civilians, and how gerilla warfare only works if you play into it.
This would mean a decision has to be made. This is why I don't like war. it would seem the brain trust in the white house thought war would be clean if the "bad" guys played fair. When you decide to go to war it is because you have decided that you will stoop the the enemies level by fighting him. This is why I'm sayin war, both sides come out losers. It is just a matter of who is the bigger looser. If you going to do it, then get messy cause all you going to do if you don't is make it worst.
This is why for 'clear' aithority it is better when the other is clearly been attacked. Nevertheless, I don't really see any other option. Saddam is dangerous. More so than others because of some of the things I stated previously about life value, comfort level and other factors that make him very dangerous.
I just feel Bush could have handled it better than he did. He clearly seemed to me as a 'warmonger' because to me he made his deciasion in 2002 after calling 3 countries The Axis opf Evil. You can't say something like that and then debate on how to approach it. You already made your decision. So why go to the UN again??? why bother with resolutions that won't work?