US is going to war tomarrow... dang...
Sunday, March 16, 2003 by IPlural | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
opps
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IPlural
Reply #722 Friday, March 21, 2003 7:22 PM
Reply #722 Friday, March 21, 2003 7:22 PM
kona, no he won't... but he will make notice of them and take notes...
joetheblow
Reply #724 Friday, March 21, 2003 7:38 PM
Reply #724 Friday, March 21, 2003 7:38 PM
thanks bakerstreet.
I'm still waiting for my questions to be answered too. I don't want the war and I can find many dumb*ss mistakes the US made.
I even hear in some posts that the US would be or is just as bad as Saddam. One evil guy being replaced by another one.
I don't agree with Bushes policies, but I am pretty sure if Bush was anywhere near close to Saddam and his government, he would have been empeached becasue the people of this country as well as other officals would have called for it.
I'm still waiting for my questions to be answered too. I don't want the war and I can find many dumb*ss mistakes the US made.
I even hear in some posts that the US would be or is just as bad as Saddam. One evil guy being replaced by another one.
I don't agree with Bushes policies, but I am pretty sure if Bush was anywhere near close to Saddam and his government, he would have been empeached becasue the people of this country as well as other officals would have called for it.
joetheblow
Reply #725 Friday, March 21, 2003 7:49 PM
Reply #725 Friday, March 21, 2003 7:49 PM
By the way, all governments have corruption in it.
Allot of policies and laws are wrong in the US.
Many acts can be put under suspition.
I don't trust the goverment as far as I can throw it... literally.
Nevertheless
____________________________
(you can skip this is you read this before)con't below
As many times as I have read this thread (and I quite enjoyed it; I think debates and understanding other poeple thoughts on a subject is always interesting and enlightenint) I have yet to here the asnwers to the fundemental quetsion. I have herd "one liners", statement that are true but pushed to be associated with why the US actions is bad, and so on.
I think we all can agree that:
a)
War is bad and no one wins; you just have one loser gets beat up more
Wanting to avoid war at all costs can empower the one you wish to contain
c)
The cost of war always takes lives of those in it.
d)
When it is agreed that war will happen, it is now BOTH parties fault for the deaths of those involved
With all this said and all the 'truths" that can be written on this (from war is for oil to fighting for freedom) it still comes back to this bottom line that eventually is where the choice to go to war or not is made; in this situation at least.
World politics is not easy. There are and will be interests other than what appears. I don't agree with Bush or with his tactics. Nevertheless, I have yet to here anything that says that Saddam has disarmed.
"Give him 30 more days." That's fine with me, but what happens when those 30 days are up? We know it happened before.
"America is only interested in oil".
Just oil? Not just from Iraq I hope because it is not worth it. We would spend more than the oil they have just fighting the war. I guess Iraq could become a launch pad for 'conquering' other oil rich places. The cost for doing so? More money than most of the oil in the region. Good investment? NO.
Why is the USA friends with China? They do the same thing as Iraq... Iraq has oil to fund its weapons production, China has a struggleing economy. The chinese soldier is more loyal. I doubt they would sell weapons to those who would later use them against themselves.
People, people ,poeple!!! It is not just about this country does the same thing or hey you have them too... it is about location, location, location, economy, additudes, stability, population comfort level (food, shelter, education, jobs)
When you include all of those factors who is more dangerous? Iraq or Argentina? Iran or Canada? North Korea or China? Serbia or Seria?
Is Saddam in breach of the agreement???
Does he have loads of money???
How loyal is his army???
Population comfort level???
How many resolutions for disarmerment????
How many years under said resolutions???????
Please, no one liners... "America wants oil!!!" "Bush is Evil!!!"
con't
______________________________
I know alo, I asked those question before.
Hey why don't you read the "Good Vs. Evil" thread. Its a 'Good' read.
Allot of policies and laws are wrong in the US.
Many acts can be put under suspition.
I don't trust the goverment as far as I can throw it... literally.
Nevertheless
____________________________
(you can skip this is you read this before)con't below
As many times as I have read this thread (and I quite enjoyed it; I think debates and understanding other poeple thoughts on a subject is always interesting and enlightenint) I have yet to here the asnwers to the fundemental quetsion. I have herd "one liners", statement that are true but pushed to be associated with why the US actions is bad, and so on.
I think we all can agree that:
a)
War is bad and no one wins; you just have one loser gets beat up more
Wanting to avoid war at all costs can empower the one you wish to contain
c)
The cost of war always takes lives of those in it.
d)
When it is agreed that war will happen, it is now BOTH parties fault for the deaths of those involved
With all this said and all the 'truths" that can be written on this (from war is for oil to fighting for freedom) it still comes back to this bottom line that eventually is where the choice to go to war or not is made; in this situation at least.
World politics is not easy. There are and will be interests other than what appears. I don't agree with Bush or with his tactics. Nevertheless, I have yet to here anything that says that Saddam has disarmed.
"Give him 30 more days." That's fine with me, but what happens when those 30 days are up? We know it happened before.
"America is only interested in oil".
Just oil? Not just from Iraq I hope because it is not worth it. We would spend more than the oil they have just fighting the war. I guess Iraq could become a launch pad for 'conquering' other oil rich places. The cost for doing so? More money than most of the oil in the region. Good investment? NO.
Why is the USA friends with China? They do the same thing as Iraq... Iraq has oil to fund its weapons production, China has a struggleing economy. The chinese soldier is more loyal. I doubt they would sell weapons to those who would later use them against themselves.
People, people ,poeple!!! It is not just about this country does the same thing or hey you have them too... it is about location, location, location, economy, additudes, stability, population comfort level (food, shelter, education, jobs)
When you include all of those factors who is more dangerous? Iraq or Argentina? Iran or Canada? North Korea or China? Serbia or Seria?
Is Saddam in breach of the agreement???
Does he have loads of money???
How loyal is his army???
Population comfort level???
How many resolutions for disarmerment????
How many years under said resolutions???????
Please, no one liners... "America wants oil!!!" "Bush is Evil!!!"
con't
______________________________
I know alo, I asked those question before.
Hey why don't you read the "Good Vs. Evil" thread. Its a 'Good' read.
paxx
Reply #726 Friday, March 21, 2003 8:56 PM
Reply #726 Friday, March 21, 2003 8:56 PM
I just heard on the news that Turkey announced officially that they were going to send troops and invade the North of Irak. The US is not pleased.
No kidding. Obviously Turkey wants to take control of the Kurd territory, so they can claim it and annex it to their Kurdish province after the War is finished and the Baas government in Irak overthrown.
Quite daring, dare I say. I thought it would happen but I thought they'd wait until the war is over and the Americans troops mostly gone.
No kidding. Obviously Turkey wants to take control of the Kurd territory, so they can claim it and annex it to their Kurdish province after the War is finished and the Baas government in Irak overthrown.
Quite daring, dare I say. I thought it would happen but I thought they'd wait until the war is over and the Americans troops mostly gone.
joetheblow
Reply #727 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:06 PM
Reply #727 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:06 PM
hmmmm... I thought Turkey didn't want to be apart of it?
interesting development...
It would be 'funny' if Bush tells them to take a hike. Knowing Bush and diplomecy that is probably how he handle it.
I do wonder how he will handle this development. Will Iraq have the same borders as it had before the war started? What about the deal with the Kurds? North Iraq will be a mess.
joetheblow wonders if this answers some of his ignored questions...
World politics is very hard.
interesting development...
It would be 'funny' if Bush tells them to take a hike. Knowing Bush and diplomecy that is probably how he handle it.
I do wonder how he will handle this development. Will Iraq have the same borders as it had before the war started? What about the deal with the Kurds? North Iraq will be a mess.
joetheblow wonders if this answers some of his ignored questions...
World politics is very hard.
Bangkokboy
Reply #728 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:08 PM
Reply #728 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:08 PM
paxx - good theory, but you must admit that none of us really "knows" what the Turks intentions are. it is disturbing. with all of the friction that the Turks have had with resident Kurds, i'd almost find it easier to believe that they want to push their Kurdish citizenry down into northern Iraq. either way it is alarming as you said. 
sig101
Reply #729 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:11 PM
Reply #729 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:11 PM
Paxx, although I haven't seen or heard of that yet in the news, I saw a cable talk show discussion of this liklihood a week or so ago. The host of the show thought that would happen and a Turkish journalist said that if Turkey did that, it would probably contend that they were "protecting" the northern oil fields and cities from being taken over and held by either of the competing Kurd factions. Just so things wouldn't get too outta hand, dontcha know. 
But so far I haven't seen anything in the news on that happening, but I haven't started hunting yet.
But so far I haven't seen anything in the news on that happening, but I haven't started hunting yet.
joetheblow
Reply #730 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:21 PM
Reply #730 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:21 PM
A few days after the towers fell, I wondered in my mind will the US change its policies toward '3rd World countries'
Terrorist and rouge regimes will aways be a problem one way or another. I was hoping that the US goverment wouldsee that if there is a nations under UN sanctions, serious human rights voilations (not culture differences like chopping of a hand for a crime), real laws and justice, freedom fro its populus, food, education and some sort of pride and wealth that it is a serious threat to national security and world sabability.
No more just saying a country is bad or the people suffer and nothing is done about it. I was hoping the US would see we need to spread the wealth. I was hoping that we would see that we can no longer see a state have people who suffer.
I want everyone to have the right to speak freely, eat, to be housed, work, have a system, they can work with, have education and the ability to persute a life.
Terrorist would not have support if the people have freedom, wealth, can resonabaly achive there goals and live happlely side by side, understanding differences and embracing them.
People's plight can no longer be ignored. If it continues it will only spark hatred and anger... and a scape goat will be made as an outlet.
No country is perfect. There are some that are beyond worst than this. There human population must be free or we are all doomed.
Terrorist and rouge regimes will aways be a problem one way or another. I was hoping that the US goverment wouldsee that if there is a nations under UN sanctions, serious human rights voilations (not culture differences like chopping of a hand for a crime), real laws and justice, freedom fro its populus, food, education and some sort of pride and wealth that it is a serious threat to national security and world sabability.
No more just saying a country is bad or the people suffer and nothing is done about it. I was hoping the US would see we need to spread the wealth. I was hoping that we would see that we can no longer see a state have people who suffer.
I want everyone to have the right to speak freely, eat, to be housed, work, have a system, they can work with, have education and the ability to persute a life.
Terrorist would not have support if the people have freedom, wealth, can resonabaly achive there goals and live happlely side by side, understanding differences and embracing them.
People's plight can no longer be ignored. If it continues it will only spark hatred and anger... and a scape goat will be made as an outlet.
No country is perfect. There are some that are beyond worst than this. There human population must be free or we are all doomed.
bordfryr
Reply #731 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:27 PM
Reply #731 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:27 PM
Hey people,FYI: Turkish troops have ALREADY crossed the Iraqi border! 
joetheblow
Reply #732 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:28 PM
Reply #732 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:28 PM
so many mis-spelled words.... and the grammer
I'm to sleepy for this. I got to take a nap. Maybe things will clear up in the morning.
This Turkey thing is bothering me allot for some reason...
I'm to sleepy for this. I got to take a nap. Maybe things will clear up in the morning.
This Turkey thing is bothering me allot for some reason...
Bangkokboy
Reply #733 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:29 PM
Reply #733 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:29 PM
"I want everyone to have the right to speak freely, eat, to be housed, work, have a system, they can work with, have education and the ability to persute a life." - jtb
all noble goals, but we'll have to start here in our own country i'm afraid. if my math's right we'll also have to find a way to drastically increase the worlds natural resources, or slow down the rate at which our world population is exploding.
all noble goals, but we'll have to start here in our own country i'm afraid. if my math's right we'll also have to find a way to drastically increase the worlds natural resources, or slow down the rate at which our world population is exploding.
joetheblow
Reply #734 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:37 PM
Reply #734 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:37 PM
We could start here.... while other places starve. Then wonder why so many resent and find scape goats to vent thier anger.
It has to be done everywhere.
Period.
It has to be done everywhere.
Period.
Xerraire
Reply #735 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:37 PM
Reply #735 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:37 PM
~bakerstreet
I usually always stay out of these kinds of threads, usually no minds are turned nor persuasions changed, but I had to tell you that I sure enjoy your logic, and wit in how you explain yourself.
No one likes war... I didn't particularly like 3 airplanes falling from the sky in our backyard, either. Killing our precious citizens, injuring them, breaking up families, disrupting our whole way of life, businesses, economy, and turning regular people into watchdogs for our own communities.
Thank you for your way of expressing true reasoning.
~Xerraire
www.xerraire.com
I usually always stay out of these kinds of threads, usually no minds are turned nor persuasions changed, but I had to tell you that I sure enjoy your logic, and wit in how you explain yourself.
No one likes war... I didn't particularly like 3 airplanes falling from the sky in our backyard, either. Killing our precious citizens, injuring them, breaking up families, disrupting our whole way of life, businesses, economy, and turning regular people into watchdogs for our own communities.
Thank you for your way of expressing true reasoning.
~Xerraire
www.xerraire.com
joetheblow
Reply #736 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:46 PM
Reply #736 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:46 PM
intersting...
It is my opinion that the war would have happened no matter how many lines were drawn in the sand to give Saddam a chance. No matter my trust and lack of it in the current administration, I am not sure there is much of another option. Even the quesions I posed seem to get a very sad answer (or no answer at all)
anyway.... read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/21/international/worldspecial/21CND-MILI.html
2 quotes out of the artical- One American and one Iraqi:
Marines lowered the Iraqi flag and raised the American flag over the seaport, Reuters reported. The American flag was then taken down, in line with orders that invading troops should avoid displaying flags in the fashion of an occupying or conquering army.
------------------------
At the same news conference today, another senior Iraqi official, Mahmoud Diab Ahmed, denied reports of an American-led advance into Iraq and said that television images of lines of Iraqis surrendering were fabricated. "Those are not Iraqi soldiers at all," he said. "Where did they bring them from?"
It is my opinion that the war would have happened no matter how many lines were drawn in the sand to give Saddam a chance. No matter my trust and lack of it in the current administration, I am not sure there is much of another option. Even the quesions I posed seem to get a very sad answer (or no answer at all)
anyway.... read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/21/international/worldspecial/21CND-MILI.html
2 quotes out of the artical- One American and one Iraqi:
Marines lowered the Iraqi flag and raised the American flag over the seaport, Reuters reported. The American flag was then taken down, in line with orders that invading troops should avoid displaying flags in the fashion of an occupying or conquering army.
------------------------
At the same news conference today, another senior Iraqi official, Mahmoud Diab Ahmed, denied reports of an American-led advance into Iraq and said that television images of lines of Iraqis surrendering were fabricated. "Those are not Iraqi soldiers at all," he said. "Where did they bring them from?"
Bangkokboy
Reply #737 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:53 PM
Reply #737 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:53 PM
if the government's stats are right ( always a question), over 50% of all foodstuffs crossing international boundaries are being transferred from the US to some other country. What percentage was bought, and what percentage was donated they didn't say in the article. obviously they're not talking about cans of green beans, but largescale shipments of thousands of metric tons of wheat, rice, soybeans, etc.
joetheblow
Reply #738 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:54 PM
Reply #738 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:54 PM
this one too!!!
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/21/international/worldspecial/21CND-TOWN.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/21/international/worldspecial/21CND-TOWN.html
joetheblow
Reply #739 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:57 PM
Reply #739 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:57 PM
Fair and Balanced...
You decide.
I want to see a thread about Critical Thinking and how to emplement it. Maybe a thread on how to debate an issue.
joetheblow goes to bed.
g'night
You decide.
I want to see a thread about Critical Thinking and how to emplement it. Maybe a thread on how to debate an issue.
joetheblow goes to bed.
g'night
bakerstreet
Reply #740 Friday, March 21, 2003 10:24 PM
Reply #740 Friday, March 21, 2003 10:24 PM
Xerraire: thanks 
. I hate war, and had we finished this one 12 years ago it wouldn't be an issue. I hope this is the last string on which we debate Iraq, but sadly there are worse possibilites looming elsewhere in the world. I doubt it will be the last string of its kind.
. I hate war, and had we finished this one 12 years ago it wouldn't be an issue. I hope this is the last string on which we debate Iraq, but sadly there are worse possibilites looming elsewhere in the world. I doubt it will be the last string of its kind.Please login to comment and/or vote for this skin.
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Reply #721 Friday, March 21, 2003 7:19 PM