US is going to war tomarrow... dang...
Sunday, March 16, 2003 by IPlural | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
opps
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DavidK
Reply #682 Friday, March 21, 2003 4:49 AM
Reply #682 Friday, March 21, 2003 4:49 AM
The CIA needs to go... they're hoplessly mired in filth. We still have an enormous and effective intelligence community without them.
kona0197
Reply #683 Friday, March 21, 2003 4:50 AM
Reply #683 Friday, March 21, 2003 4:50 AM
I would not say anything bad about the good ol President. That usually has bad effects. The comments coming from your typing are most un-american.
kona0197
Reply #684 Friday, March 21, 2003 4:52 AM
Reply #684 Friday, March 21, 2003 4:52 AM
Hey bakerstreet... Whats up?
remind me to buy you a drink.
remind me to buy you a drink.
DavidK
Reply #685 Friday, March 21, 2003 4:55 AM
Reply #685 Friday, March 21, 2003 4:55 AM
you can agree with him kona, that's fine. That doesn't mean he's beat me, just that you agree with him. Most people would agree with him over what I'm saying. That doesn't mean I'm not right though. I notice most of what I've said is ignored. I'm used to this. It's the tough questions that need to be answered. But first people have to want them answered and most people just don't want to know...
The hardest man in the world to wake up is the one who's pretending to be asleep.
good night... I'm dozing as I type...
The hardest man in the world to wake up is the one who's pretending to be asleep.
good night... I'm dozing as I type...
kona0197
Reply #686 Friday, March 21, 2003 5:02 AM
Reply #686 Friday, March 21, 2003 5:02 AM
Still I say this. Badmouthing the government or the President can have severe consequenses. Be careful about what you say and type. The reason people ignore you is because of your weird views on America and the comments you make. I agree with bakerstreet because he speaks the truth. And I am hard to wake up but I never pretend. I have no time or patience for brown nosers or save as*es. We need every part of the government to protect ourselves from things like....
Guess...
9/11
Guess...
9/11
moshi
Reply #687 Friday, March 21, 2003 6:57 AM
Reply #687 Friday, March 21, 2003 6:57 AM
"Badmouthing the government or the President can have severe consequenses. Be careful about what you say and type."
huh? will the department of homeland security put DavidK into an education camp now or what?
huh? will the department of homeland security put DavidK into an education camp now or what?
IPlural
Reply #688 Friday, March 21, 2003 7:09 AM
Reply #688 Friday, March 21, 2003 7:09 AM
Dissent is a large part of Freedom : Ari stated that exact fact in a news conference yesterday..
pjpowell
Reply #689 Friday, March 21, 2003 8:12 AM
Reply #689 Friday, March 21, 2003 8:12 AM
kona: So in your free country you can't give your opinions? Maybe it's not as free as you'd have us think then? Just because someone is the president doesn't make everything he says and does right and like mindless sheep everyone has to agree with him. And the people are not protesting against the troops. They are protesting against the war. The troops do what they have ben trained and ordered to do. That is their job. It's the orders that people are protesting against.
KarmaGirl
Reply #690 Friday, March 21, 2003 8:14 AM
Reply #690 Friday, March 21, 2003 8:14 AM
Paxx, can you clarify your post:
"Bakerstreet: "Unfortunately, the french business model relies on an evil dictator starving his people and threatening the world... "
You're joking, right? Cause that's pretty much the model for all the western civilization, starting with the US. "
I am assuming that you mean that we rely on trade with an "evil dictator" not that we have one? I don't believe either are true (as the US could stop trade and still have all the resources we need within our land- remember that a lot of our oil goes to Japan, that is why we import (lets just remember the history on why we don't cut off Japan..))
"Bakerstreet: "Unfortunately, the french business model relies on an evil dictator starving his people and threatening the world... "
You're joking, right? Cause that's pretty much the model for all the western civilization, starting with the US. "
I am assuming that you mean that we rely on trade with an "evil dictator" not that we have one? I don't believe either are true (as the US could stop trade and still have all the resources we need within our land- remember that a lot of our oil goes to Japan, that is why we import (lets just remember the history on why we don't cut off Japan..))
paxx
Reply #691 Friday, March 21, 2003 8:15 AM
Reply #691 Friday, March 21, 2003 8:15 AM
kona, I didn't realise that being American meant being obligated to follow the country's leader. Funny, some people are saying that it is precesely why Saddam has to go: because nobody is allowed to disagree with him. Hum, so America is lead by a dictator too then? Didn't know that. You just tought me something.
paxx
Reply #692 Friday, March 21, 2003 8:22 AM
Reply #692 Friday, March 21, 2003 8:22 AM
Karmagirl: I don't have te time to start a thourough research to give you a list, but I'm sure you know that a lot of the primary resources we use come from Third World countries, which most of them are lead by dictators. A lot of western companies have plants and manufactures in those same contries where labour is much cheaper. Sadly, we owe a lot of our comfort to the starving population living in a Dictator ruled country.
IPlural
Reply #693 Friday, March 21, 2003 8:57 AM
Reply #693 Friday, March 21, 2003 8:57 AM
Research the history of the action of the CIA, or better yet watch the History Channel for the documentary they are running throughout this month. A lot of the actions that the CIA under took were based in protecting National Interests, which when tracked down do in fact connect directly to large US corporations and the affects on the economy if no action were taken, or political favors, etc. Very thought provoking documentary, with some really open discussion by ex CIA operatives and people for higher higher in the company who finally have spoken about things they felt could not be talked about publicly before the end of the cold war.
US Industry has a pretty bad track record in foreign lands, as does the industry of many nations. Bhopal for instance to name one instance of gross management of maintenance and safety measures and the only reason Union Carbide was there was we would not allow such a factory here in the states or it would have been so astronomically expensive they could never have fired it up once construction was completed...
As with any nation, the question of support is based in return, what do *we* get out of it, now and in the future, or what can we use of yours later to get what we want of someones elses...
IS it right or wrong? dun no, but it sure doesn't seem to work because it is the model used that has put this world in the situation it faces today and will into the future.
Finger pointing is inane and pointless if anyone seeks to really make any change. Kind of like the race issues in the USA. On one side you have people(s) screaming about racism while a small number of them seek for a way out of the situation they find themselves in, the rest demand more. On the other hand you have people(s) refusing to see any justification of the oppositions position and just as loudly screaming how lazy the others are and all they want is a free ride. When in fact both sides seem to only want the fight and contention to continue because it gives them a position to scream from and also funds a lot of personal things in the name of the people of course, and that is on both sides of the ticket...
It isn't a black, white, latino, etc issue.... It is a human issue and making sure everyone get equal footing that is based upon as much as they put into it...
Same goes with the world at large, France, Germany, USA, Britain, Russia, etc... People stop pointing fingers and get to the issues and quit taking everything as a personal attack or quit throwing everything out as a personal attack and something positive might come from it. Until such time it will always resemble a nasty under handed dirty mud slinging divorce with the kiddies sitting in 3 rd class waiting for the results on who gets custody rights and what that will eventually means to them down the road...
anyway... enough from the nuking futz gallery...
US Industry has a pretty bad track record in foreign lands, as does the industry of many nations. Bhopal for instance to name one instance of gross management of maintenance and safety measures and the only reason Union Carbide was there was we would not allow such a factory here in the states or it would have been so astronomically expensive they could never have fired it up once construction was completed...
As with any nation, the question of support is based in return, what do *we* get out of it, now and in the future, or what can we use of yours later to get what we want of someones elses...
IS it right or wrong? dun no, but it sure doesn't seem to work because it is the model used that has put this world in the situation it faces today and will into the future.
Finger pointing is inane and pointless if anyone seeks to really make any change. Kind of like the race issues in the USA. On one side you have people(s) screaming about racism while a small number of them seek for a way out of the situation they find themselves in, the rest demand more. On the other hand you have people(s) refusing to see any justification of the oppositions position and just as loudly screaming how lazy the others are and all they want is a free ride. When in fact both sides seem to only want the fight and contention to continue because it gives them a position to scream from and also funds a lot of personal things in the name of the people of course, and that is on both sides of the ticket...
It isn't a black, white, latino, etc issue.... It is a human issue and making sure everyone get equal footing that is based upon as much as they put into it...
Same goes with the world at large, France, Germany, USA, Britain, Russia, etc... People stop pointing fingers and get to the issues and quit taking everything as a personal attack or quit throwing everything out as a personal attack and something positive might come from it. Until such time it will always resemble a nasty under handed dirty mud slinging divorce with the kiddies sitting in 3 rd class waiting for the results on who gets custody rights and what that will eventually means to them down the road...
anyway... enough from the nuking futz gallery...
alo_cmr
Reply #694 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:09 AM
Reply #694 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:09 AM
>Osama Bin Laden worked for the CIA.
>His group, the Mujahedeen (now Al-
>Qaida), were trained at Ft Benning in
>the art of inflicting terror
Please, read some of history, The Mujahedeens were the afgans that fought in every war to protect Afganistan from invasors, British, Russians.. USA ones...
>una-bomber-esque
what was that spanish???, if it is, please learn a bit more. can you just write a line in other languaje or is just you are uneducated.
>As far as Vietnam we had no business
>being there. We have business being
>in Iraq.
You have a buisness in vietnam, prevent another comunist regimen.Like in granda, cuba, ...
And you do hava a buisness at iraq, OIL.
What about the 130.000 civilians dead in the firs gulf war?
what about the 150.000 russians and afgans killed by the taliban regime, trained by CIA???
Panamá? y por Colombia? y por Guatemala? camboya? ...?
US allways tries to implant friendly regimes outside US and don't care at all about the civilians, it seems that your goverment only gives you the info that you need to convince yourselves it's good to attack.(US people are visiting much more now UK on-line newspapers than before the war, maybe the info you get in your country is manipulated....)
>His group, the Mujahedeen (now Al-
>Qaida), were trained at Ft Benning in
>the art of inflicting terror
Please, read some of history, The Mujahedeens were the afgans that fought in every war to protect Afganistan from invasors, British, Russians.. USA ones...
>una-bomber-esque
what was that spanish???, if it is, please learn a bit more. can you just write a line in other languaje or is just you are uneducated.
>As far as Vietnam we had no business
>being there. We have business being
>in Iraq.
You have a buisness in vietnam, prevent another comunist regimen.Like in granda, cuba, ...
And you do hava a buisness at iraq, OIL.
What about the 130.000 civilians dead in the firs gulf war?
what about the 150.000 russians and afgans killed by the taliban regime, trained by CIA???
Panamá? y por Colombia? y por Guatemala? camboya? ...?
US allways tries to implant friendly regimes outside US and don't care at all about the civilians, it seems that your goverment only gives you the info that you need to convince yourselves it's good to attack.(US people are visiting much more now UK on-line newspapers than before the war, maybe the info you get in your country is manipulated....)
KarmaGirl
Reply #695 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:15 AM
Reply #695 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:15 AM
Here is an interesting link to statements made about the current oil supply:
http://usinfo.state.gov/cgi-bin/washfile/display.pl?p=/products/washfile/latest&f=03032001.clt&t=/products/washfile/newsitem.shtml
http://usinfo.state.gov/cgi-bin/washfile/display.pl?p=/products/washfile/latest&f=03032001.clt&t=/products/washfile/newsitem.shtml
KarmaGirl
Reply #696 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:20 AM
Reply #696 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:20 AM
Paxx, I think what you are referring to is how Apec works (when talking about how most the world relies on resources of countries ran by "dictators"):
http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/ea/apec/
(Not really evil. It was made to promote growth within the countries in Apec)
http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/ea/apec/
(Not really evil. It was made to promote growth within the countries in Apec)
paxx
Reply #697 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:49 AM
Reply #697 Friday, March 21, 2003 9:49 AM
Coffee, sugar, a lot of tropical fruits, oil, gold, copper, are a few of the produits out of my head that come from a big part from Third World countries (most of which are dictatorships).
And about Western companies making their finished products where labour is cheap, I didn't think that would be news for anyone... You never heard of cheap labour before?
Anyway. Don't want to argue on this. I thought it was common knowledge. I guess not.
And about Western companies making their finished products where labour is cheap, I didn't think that would be news for anyone... You never heard of cheap labour before?
Anyway. Don't want to argue on this. I thought it was common knowledge. I guess not.
paxx
Reply #698 Friday, March 21, 2003 10:42 AM
Reply #698 Friday, March 21, 2003 10:42 AM
alo: don't need any personnal attacks, k? Calling people "uneducated" or other names is not the type of debates we like, here. All right?
Warm, even heated debates are good, but lets not fall into low name calling.
Warm, even heated debates are good, but lets not fall into low name calling.
JamMeister33
Reply #699 Friday, March 21, 2003 10:54 AM
Reply #699 Friday, March 21, 2003 10:54 AM
I am greatly enjoying the debate in this thread, thank you everyone!
yvonne2222
Reply #700 Friday, March 21, 2003 10:59 AM
Reply #700 Friday, March 21, 2003 10:59 AM
TO THOSE IN FAVOR OF WAR:
before you start defending US Goverment's tacticts and policy ... Please look at all the injured people from the bombings...
look at the little Iraqi girl who was injured in her spine and may not walk again ...
all those pregnant women who tried to deliver early so their babies wouldn't be delivered in the middle of a war...
all those children who will be born with birth defects -due to the biological war- and may die deformed before they reach
puberty...all the children who already die day by day from cancer and leukemia due to the '91 Gulf war...and -being objective-
all the soldiers who were sent down there and died and to their families who received them back in body bags...
CAN YOU LOOK AT THEM IN THE EYES AND TELL THEM THAT WAR WAS THE ONLY OPTION????
WAR NOR IS THE ANSWER BUT IT SHOULDN'T EVEN BE AN OPTION!!!!!
If a nation has problems with their leader -because he's a dictartor- it's an internal affair, let the people deal with him...
If you see that he can't be stopped and his weapons are a threat-****- to the world take it up with him and just him, not
innocent people!!
That's all I had to say ... food for thought ...
**** Noone knows for sure if the weapons Saddam had are not disarmed right now... We just think so because we were told so...
by the same people who in 1991, to convince the whole US Congress , used a girl that gave a speech about what Saddam had
done to them ... and turned out to be an ambassador's daughter...
before you start defending US Goverment's tacticts and policy ... Please look at all the injured people from the bombings...
look at the little Iraqi girl who was injured in her spine and may not walk again ...
all those pregnant women who tried to deliver early so their babies wouldn't be delivered in the middle of a war...
all those children who will be born with birth defects -due to the biological war- and may die deformed before they reach
puberty...all the children who already die day by day from cancer and leukemia due to the '91 Gulf war...and -being objective-
all the soldiers who were sent down there and died and to their families who received them back in body bags...
CAN YOU LOOK AT THEM IN THE EYES AND TELL THEM THAT WAR WAS THE ONLY OPTION????
WAR NOR IS THE ANSWER BUT IT SHOULDN'T EVEN BE AN OPTION!!!!!
If a nation has problems with their leader -because he's a dictartor- it's an internal affair, let the people deal with him...
If you see that he can't be stopped and his weapons are a threat-****- to the world take it up with him and just him, not
innocent people!!
That's all I had to say ... food for thought ...
**** Noone knows for sure if the weapons Saddam had are not disarmed right now... We just think so because we were told so...
by the same people who in 1991, to convince the whole US Congress , used a girl that gave a speech about what Saddam had
done to them ... and turned out to be an ambassador's daughter...
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Reply #681 Friday, March 21, 2003 4:47 AM