Sally's editorial on ratings
Monday, March 10, 2003 by Delicious | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Oh No! 
Since Jafo posted my skin ratings I have been perplexed. The rating work like this: If there are two ratings, a 1 and a 10 then the skin is rated 5.
This curve is OK I guess.
It would seem more beneficial if there was something coded into the web page by the rating thing to spur more ppl to make a rating.
Like, Please take the time to rate this skin to assure an overall accurate rating.
]Opinions expressed in this thread are not necessarily those of a sane person.[
Since Jafo posted my skin ratings I have been perplexed. The rating work like this: If there are two ratings, a 1 and a 10 then the skin is rated 5.
This curve is OK I guess.
It would seem more beneficial if there was something coded into the web page by the rating thing to spur more ppl to make a rating.
Like, Please take the time to rate this skin to assure an overall accurate rating.
]Opinions expressed in this thread are not necessarily those of a sane person.[
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mossedmoon
Reply #22 Monday, March 10, 2003 10:08 AM
Reply #22 Monday, March 10, 2003 10:08 AM
WOM, you're a fair, intellegent rater, which perhaps isn't the norm...
paxx
Reply #23 Monday, March 10, 2003 10:15 AM
Reply #23 Monday, March 10, 2003 10:15 AM
WOM, well, I don't agree. I don't rate that way and wouldn't wat anybody to rate anything of mine that way. DOn't assume of other people's tastes. If you don't like it, rate it accordingly. If you say you like it but woldn't use it, then you probably really don't like it that much.
WOM
Reply #25 Monday, March 10, 2003 10:23 AM
Reply #25 Monday, March 10, 2003 10:23 AM
paxx, I try to put myself into the teacher mode. Fair and objective. Could you imagine a teacher grading a class and flunking 90% because he didn't like the color! Or wouldn't hang it on his wall or use it. If I don't like it and I think it looks bad I will just pass it by or give it a low rating.
paxx
Reply #27 Monday, March 10, 2003 10:43 AM
Reply #27 Monday, March 10, 2003 10:43 AM
First, note that my rating grid doesn't say "Do I like colors" but "Do the colors go well together?".
Imagine a fairly conventional skin. Nothing daring but well executed. That sort of skins tend to be popular. In my tastes, it's nothing grand, and I would give it a 6 or a 7 or so. But should I give it a 10 just because I think most people like it?
And do you do the same for skins that you actually like? What I mean is what if there is a skin that you think most people would not like but you personnally like it? Do you give it a low rating then?
Imagine a fairly conventional skin. Nothing daring but well executed. That sort of skins tend to be popular. In my tastes, it's nothing grand, and I would give it a 6 or a 7 or so. But should I give it a 10 just because I think most people like it?
And do you do the same for skins that you actually like? What I mean is what if there is a skin that you think most people would not like but you personnally like it? Do you give it a low rating then?
WOM
Reply #28 Monday, March 10, 2003 10:58 AM
Reply #28 Monday, March 10, 2003 10:58 AM
paxx, I rate it on it's own merrits. Who cares if you like it or not, thats for you to say and rate. I can give something a 7 or 8 because it is good and not want it myself for some reason and could give it a 9 or 10 because it is good and I would use it myself.
mossedmoon
Reply #29 Monday, March 10, 2003 11:02 AM
Reply #29 Monday, March 10, 2003 11:02 AM
I believe you have the crux of it, paxx - if I understand you right - by 'nothing daring', I'm guessing that some categories carry more weight than others and you will give a higher rating for, let's say, animation vs speed... which leads me back to my first comment in this thread.
werewolf
Reply #30 Monday, March 10, 2003 11:02 AM
Reply #30 Monday, March 10, 2003 11:02 AM
werewolf doesn't care at all about the ratings.
werewolf just wishes people would leave constructive comments.
werewolf just wishes people would leave constructive comments.
paxx
Reply #31 Monday, March 10, 2003 11:13 AM
Reply #31 Monday, March 10, 2003 11:13 AM
no, mcackerson, by "nothing daring" I mean something that doesn't change much from the default Windows look. Something conservative and blah, IMO.
Anyway. I made that grid for myself. It was initially meant for people to use when they rate MY stuff. That's how I'd like people to rate my things.
If you say you like something I made but would not use it, then to me it means you don't really like it.
Anyway. I made that grid for myself. It was initially meant for people to use when they rate MY stuff. That's how I'd like people to rate my things.
If you say you like something I made but would not use it, then to me it means you don't really like it.
mossedmoon
Reply #32 Monday, March 10, 2003 11:33 AM
Reply #32 Monday, March 10, 2003 11:33 AM
I disagree with your last sentence, paxx: I love your Stronghold but I don't use it, yet it's in my appearances list and I would no sooner consider deleting it than I would my other favorites. I periodically go through this list and wean out the ones I can live without, Stronghold is still there (a good skin stands the test of time...). I don't use my own Amberbug, but delete it? Don't like it? I don't think so.
paxx
Reply #33 Monday, March 10, 2003 11:39 AM
Reply #33 Monday, March 10, 2003 11:39 AM
mcackerson, maybe we disagree on the choice of words.
If you have it in your list, have used it in the past, even for a short while, and may maybe use it some time in the future, maybe for a short while, then, to me, you are using it.
To me, not using it means that you may not even want to download it, or download it, apply it look at and immediately removed it.
If you have it in your list, have used it in the past, even for a short while, and may maybe use it some time in the future, maybe for a short while, then, to me, you are using it.
To me, not using it means that you may not even want to download it, or download it, apply it look at and immediately removed it.
sig101
Reply #34 Monday, March 10, 2003 3:36 PM
Reply #34 Monday, March 10, 2003 3:36 PM
This is a difficult subject. To some ratings are important, if for no other reason that it effects what visitors see, so I try to rate the ones I download. There are some stunning skins which I wind up not using very much because they are not (for my eyes or because I find them distracting) to me for eveyday use. I wouldn't rate them less for that. Similarly there are some more subtle skins that while not flashy or intricate I really enjoy and use frequently. And appreciate more as I use them. Often they are not generally rated as highly because they are not as much of a "wow" upon first glance to look at.
Just because something is not to my every day personal taste I don't downrate it for that. For example, there is some artwork in museums or galleries I may find amazing, but even so I wouldn't hang it (or a replica) in my house.
But every once and a while the subject comes up here and a skinner may say, "how can people rate so high these skins that are tchnically bad, the graphics are put together as they should be, etc." I suppose the skinner took the other skins apart to see and came to those conclusions. I don't know if they're talking out of their hat or really do find things technically wrong with the skin. What I do know is that I am not a skinner and I don't see those things, unless it obviously effects how the skin works on my PC. If the skin works and looks good that's OK for me. But my point is, those comments make me feel as if I shouldn't rate skins at all because I am not a skinner and don't know the technical stuff. Then I think perhaps only skinners should be allowed to rate each others' work and perhaps I shouldn't rate anything at all. (Even if something has been rated low that I think should be higher.)
Some authors complain about not getting rated or not rated as high as others. Some even get into how many downloads there have been compared to others. Others ask primarily for comments to see how the skin plays, are there suggestions for improvement, etc which makes sense to me.
I do think, however, if I were a skinner and put that much effort into it I would be doing it for what I want to do and not to play to the audience for the number of downloads and/or ratings. If I were to be paid for it then that would be important. But when it's not, I wouldn't spend effort putting together something I'm not that interested in simply to post it and play a popularity game with ratings and downloads. If it's about the work, then that is the focus. If it's more about measuring oneself against others' "popularity" well that's another issue IMO.
Just because something is not to my every day personal taste I don't downrate it for that. For example, there is some artwork in museums or galleries I may find amazing, but even so I wouldn't hang it (or a replica) in my house.
But every once and a while the subject comes up here and a skinner may say, "how can people rate so high these skins that are tchnically bad, the graphics are put together as they should be, etc." I suppose the skinner took the other skins apart to see and came to those conclusions. I don't know if they're talking out of their hat or really do find things technically wrong with the skin. What I do know is that I am not a skinner and I don't see those things, unless it obviously effects how the skin works on my PC. If the skin works and looks good that's OK for me. But my point is, those comments make me feel as if I shouldn't rate skins at all because I am not a skinner and don't know the technical stuff. Then I think perhaps only skinners should be allowed to rate each others' work and perhaps I shouldn't rate anything at all. (Even if something has been rated low that I think should be higher.)
Some authors complain about not getting rated or not rated as high as others. Some even get into how many downloads there have been compared to others. Others ask primarily for comments to see how the skin plays, are there suggestions for improvement, etc which makes sense to me.
I do think, however, if I were a skinner and put that much effort into it I would be doing it for what I want to do and not to play to the audience for the number of downloads and/or ratings. If I were to be paid for it then that would be important. But when it's not, I wouldn't spend effort putting together something I'm not that interested in simply to post it and play a popularity game with ratings and downloads. If it's about the work, then that is the focus. If it's more about measuring oneself against others' "popularity" well that's another issue IMO.
knatzz
Reply #37 Monday, March 10, 2003 5:55 PM
Reply #37 Monday, March 10, 2003 5:55 PM
To be honest, I never even noticed the rating option until I uploaded my first skin. It got a 6, obviously a lot less than I would have thought. The big problem is that I really don't know why. Is it the colors? the file size? the screenshot size? etc. I started doing these to learn photoshop more than anything else, and would like to grow and do increasingly better work, but a 6 just doesn't tell me what I need to know to better my work, niether do the comments, most of which range from "cool" to "it doesn't download right"... I guess what I would like to see is a separate rating by other skinners, as someone else brought up in this thread a few posts back, but not just a single number, rate my graphics, my use of color, the overall look and feel, the speed, and tell me why! Though I also see why wincustomize wouldn't want to do it and that's hurt feelings, Some authors take constructive criticism as a personal shot, this is a touchy subject, but I'll take the punches if it makes me stronger, that's my 2 newbe cents.
werewolf
Reply #38 Monday, March 10, 2003 5:59 PM
Reply #38 Monday, March 10, 2003 5:59 PM
knatzz, there's a big difference between constructive criticism and "hey man, this sucks" I don't really think any author would mind real constructivism.
hmmm, is that a word?
hmmm, is that a word?
Jafo
Reply #39 Monday, March 10, 2003 6:03 PM
Reply #39 Monday, March 10, 2003 6:03 PM
I tell you what.....being able to see who rates what and how is illuminating...
Delicious
Reply #40 Monday, March 10, 2003 6:17 PM
Reply #40 Monday, March 10, 2003 6:17 PM
Delicious, why do you bring this subject up every couple weeks for?
Someone that continues to knock on your door in the middle of the night will eventually get you up to answer it.
There has been very indepth/good comments made here and that proves that there is a need and desire for a change. It takes much longer to make a skin and for someone to be able to come in and "dis" it with a low rating is wrong. The rating structure should prevent that from happening and I have seen many comments that could be implimented to prevent that from happening.
Ask not what Wincustomize can do for you but what you can do for them
Someone that continues to knock on your door in the middle of the night will eventually get you up to answer it.
There has been very indepth/good comments made here and that proves that there is a need and desire for a change. It takes much longer to make a skin and for someone to be able to come in and "dis" it with a low rating is wrong. The rating structure should prevent that from happening and I have seen many comments that could be implimented to prevent that from happening.
Ask not what Wincustomize can do for you but what you can do for them
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Reply #21 Monday, March 10, 2003 9:33 AM