DesktopX - form vs function
Thursday, March 6, 2003 by _Martin_ | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Just want to stimulate a debate (not an argument), to try and work out what people actually want from DesktopX.
DX has huge capability for delivering great 'function' via script and plugins yet noone seems to care.
Personally when I create my DX themes I like functionality like news on my desktop, weather etc that I can all do via DesktopX. However, I have noted that my stuff containing functionality provokes little intest, whereas other themes which are mainly 'form' are hugely popular.
Personally I don't care if people don't like the way my themes look or what they do, but I'm really surprised that there aren't more 'functional' themes and objects about. Hell, I'd like to use someone else's stuff for once instead of having ideas myself.
Is the 'function' to hard to do or do people just not want it? It seems that Stardock are putting a lot of effort into adding 'function' into DX but noone is using it.
Thoughts?
DX has huge capability for delivering great 'function' via script and plugins yet noone seems to care.
Personally when I create my DX themes I like functionality like news on my desktop, weather etc that I can all do via DesktopX. However, I have noted that my stuff containing functionality provokes little intest, whereas other themes which are mainly 'form' are hugely popular.
Personally I don't care if people don't like the way my themes look or what they do, but I'm really surprised that there aren't more 'functional' themes and objects about. Hell, I'd like to use someone else's stuff for once instead of having ideas myself.
Is the 'function' to hard to do or do people just not want it? It seems that Stardock are putting a lot of effort into adding 'function' into DX but noone is using it.
Thoughts?
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pjpowell
Reply #23 Friday, March 7, 2003 9:07 AM
Reply #23 Friday, March 7, 2003 9:07 AM
Thanks c242. I've got a week off next week so I am planning to get the theme finished then.
c242
Reply #24 Friday, March 7, 2003 9:09 AM
Reply #24 Friday, March 7, 2003 9:09 AM
Well, I am on a 2 weeks vacation on Malta the week after, so I got to see it 3 weeks later. 
joetheblow
Reply #25 Friday, March 7, 2003 10:09 AM
Reply #25 Friday, March 7, 2003 10:09 AM
#17 by JourneyMan _Martin_ - 3/7/2003 4:42:28 AM
You asking me or someone else?
Yes you. I saw your work and I think it is great. Funny, I didn't see it before or notice it but the images look familiar.
Anyway what I was sayin' was that I wanted to do stuff like that in piticular a theme I made months ago called Stay.
pjpowell: I think it is cool that you made the icon move around the screen. I can't wait to see what you come out with so I can see the code. Maybe I will see what I'm missing.
You asking me or someone else?
Yes you. I saw your work and I think it is great. Funny, I didn't see it before or notice it but the images look familiar.
Anyway what I was sayin' was that I wanted to do stuff like that in piticular a theme I made months ago called Stay.
pjpowell: I think it is cool that you made the icon move around the screen. I can't wait to see what you come out with so I can see the code. Maybe I will see what I'm missing.
joetheblow
Reply #26 Friday, March 7, 2003 10:42 AM
Reply #26 Friday, March 7, 2003 10:42 AM
Hey, I must be missing something... where is the link for a script tutorial. I can't find it. I have been to the tutrisal site and I don't see the script help
thanks
thanks
joetheblow
Reply #27 Friday, March 7, 2003 10:48 AM
Reply #27 Friday, March 7, 2003 10:48 AM
never mind I see it now.
https://www.stardock.com/products/desktopx/development.html
https://www.stardock.com/products/desktopx/development.html
BoXXi
Reply #28 Friday, March 7, 2003 11:42 AM
Reply #28 Friday, March 7, 2003 11:42 AM
I just went to the tutorial site, I read the very first line and I was immediately ruled out of using this feature.... The first line was, "Before you get started with scripting in DesktopX, you must learn the basics of a scripting language."
I guess I'll just have to stick to trying to make my themes as graphically attractive as I can to make up for my shortfall in coding skills Oh well............ 
I guess I'll just have to stick to trying to make my themes as graphically attractive as I can to make up for my shortfall in coding skills
Oh well............ 
joetheblow
Reply #29 Friday, March 7, 2003 11:47 AM
Reply #29 Friday, March 7, 2003 11:47 AM
Its not hard Boxxi. It really isn't. Once you get the hang of it, it actually make sence. I like VB script.
Anyway, I was wondering; it would seem possible that I could make a program using VB script through DesktopX. I was thinking along the lines of a browser that accesses a site though a password and you can post stuff and IM people. You could also access the database (I think the host has to have a ODBC on their computer to connect (not sure about that).
Can that really be done?
joetheblow wonders in suspence...
Anyway, I was wondering; it would seem possible that I could make a program using VB script through DesktopX. I was thinking along the lines of a browser that accesses a site though a password and you can post stuff and IM people. You could also access the database (I think the host has to have a ODBC on their computer to connect (not sure about that).
Can that really be done?
joetheblow wonders in suspence...
BoXXi
Reply #30 Friday, March 7, 2003 11:59 AM
Reply #30 Friday, March 7, 2003 11:59 AM
Joe: It probably isn't hard, but you have to remember that I am 46 years old, didn't get my first computer till I was 42, got straight into the graphics stuff and have never really learned any of the technical side of things. As you can imagine, My learning curve has been extremely steep just on the things I have learned, and I'm so involved with what I do at the moment that it takes all the precious little time that I have, so no opportunity to learn anything new, especially if it requires more than 7 brain cells. (which is the amount I can spare to learn technical stuff 
)
I just wish I had got into computers a long time ago, maybe then I would be better at this stuff
)I just wish I had got into computers a long time ago, maybe then I would be better at this stuff
kthxbye
Reply #31 Friday, March 7, 2003 4:56 PM
Reply #31 Friday, March 7, 2003 4:56 PM
that's why you collaborate with other people in making a DX theme. You handle the graphical eye-candy side of it, and get somebody else who knows, and is willing to do scripting for you. ^.^
That's usually a good way to pick it up, too.
That's usually a good way to pick it up, too.
elvee
Reply #32 Friday, March 7, 2003 5:23 PM
Reply #32 Friday, March 7, 2003 5:23 PM
pjpowell...I saw your Scripts in action...Way Cool!
Another Question...Of the Available languages, Which would be recommended for a NooB like me to to start playing with?
Thanks
Another Question...Of the Available languages, Which would be recommended for a NooB like me to to start playing with?
Thanks
pjpowell
Reply #33 Friday, March 7, 2003 6:19 PM
Reply #33 Friday, March 7, 2003 6:19 PM
Have you ever done any programming before? I found vbscript easiest to start with but then I do have a bit of a programming background. On the other hand if you have ever done any javascript then jscript may be the best choice. You best bet is to try the scripting tutorials on the DesktopX site and then as you get the hang of it try and add a bit more to them to make them do something you find useful.
joetheblow
Reply #35 Friday, March 7, 2003 11:42 PM
Reply #35 Friday, March 7, 2003 11:42 PM
Go with VB script. And if you know javascript and want to learn microsofts J Script try that. Microsoft Jscript is also used in the code for making windows media plaer skins.
Boxxi, I am in classes with guys way older than you.
I think the learning curve, as you say, might make things more difficult but 2 years from now you'll be making DX themes that are out of this world... more out of this world than usual.
Me personally, I can't wait to get my new computer so I can get started on some real stuff. I have so many ideas. Dual Themes, VB scripted desktop games, change colors at the press of a button, videos, animations that don't take up the whole hard drive, website interaction... oh my friends, what have we done.... what have we done?
Boxxi, I am in classes with guys way older than you.
I think the learning curve, as you say, might make things more difficult but 2 years from now you'll be making DX themes that are out of this world... more out of this world than usual.
Me personally, I can't wait to get my new computer so I can get started on some real stuff. I have so many ideas. Dual Themes, VB scripted desktop games, change colors at the press of a button, videos, animations that don't take up the whole hard drive, website interaction... oh my friends, what have we done.... what have we done?
DYSEQTA
Reply #36 Saturday, March 8, 2003 8:03 AM
Reply #36 Saturday, March 8, 2003 8:03 AM
Just a comment on the VBScript vs JScript thing...
JScript is faster than VBScript, why? Because JScript is sort of half compiled before execution and VBScript isnt. They call the technique Byte Compiling, your script gets turned into to ultra small 'bytecode' before execution which can be interpreted much faster than VBScript. On the other hand VBScript would be easier to get the hang of if you have no experience with any programming. There is also the small issue with the fact that JScript is broken in the DXAxHost.dll that is being distributed
I have to use a special version that has been fixed by Ian and copy it over the distributed one whenever I install a new version of DX. Hopefully that won't be the case for long.
JScript is faster than VBScript, why? Because JScript is sort of half compiled before execution and VBScript isnt. They call the technique Byte Compiling, your script gets turned into to ultra small 'bytecode' before execution which can be interpreted much faster than VBScript. On the other hand VBScript would be easier to get the hang of if you have no experience with any programming. There is also the small issue with the fact that JScript is broken in the DXAxHost.dll that is being distributed
I have to use a special version that has been fixed by Ian and copy it over the distributed one whenever I install a new version of DX. Hopefully that won't be the case for long.
Bill Allen
Reply #37 Sunday, March 9, 2003 9:17 AM
Reply #37 Sunday, March 9, 2003 9:17 AM
Getting back to the original question....
Form or function depends on what you're doing on your computer.
For work I want function though of course I want it to look cool and make those around me ask "Wow, what is that?".
For home use function isn't always as important as long as you know how to find the program or document that you're looking for. Though you'll always want the things most important to you to be readily available without much digging around. Function is what leads me most of the time but of course I want it to look good too. Most of the folks using this package want a little of both - how much of either and what the trade-off is depends on what they're doing.
Form or function depends on what you're doing on your computer.
For work I want function though of course I want it to look cool and make those around me ask "Wow, what is that?".
For home use function isn't always as important as long as you know how to find the program or document that you're looking for. Though you'll always want the things most important to you to be readily available without much digging around. Function is what leads me most of the time but of course I want it to look good too. Most of the folks using this package want a little of both - how much of either and what the trade-off is depends on what they're doing.
mossedmoon
Reply #38 Sunday, March 9, 2003 10:20 AM
Reply #38 Sunday, March 9, 2003 10:20 AM
My work pc is a laptop with a slew of utilities blueprints, daily downloaded jobs and a billing procedure uploaded at end of day - what it is, is what it is. My home pc is another matter though, which can best be described politely as a love affair (as some would call it an addiction).
I prefer instant access, not minimizing windows or apps or mousing from A to B to C, so I want a small border which all else fits into; I say small as my screen is only 1024x768 (flat screens are salty), thus realestate is an important issue. I want system monitoring, time, date and internet functions - looking out the window at the weather isn't good enough for me (I'm a control and gadgets freak), although I'm sure I could get by with it but I could get by without Windows XP too. Not! So I require, or I would like to have, a large degree of function in desktop x; I've experienced alot of bugs, though.
As an artist and skinner (may I call myself these?), form is just as important as function. Add my above requirements to this and you've got a tough nut to crack. I'm still contemplating it...
I prefer instant access, not minimizing windows or apps or mousing from A to B to C, so I want a small border which all else fits into; I say small as my screen is only 1024x768 (flat screens are salty), thus realestate is an important issue. I want system monitoring, time, date and internet functions - looking out the window at the weather isn't good enough for me (I'm a control and gadgets freak), although I'm sure I could get by with it but I could get by without Windows XP too. Not! So I require, or I would like to have, a large degree of function in desktop x; I've experienced alot of bugs, though.
As an artist and skinner (may I call myself these?), form is just as important as function. Add my above requirements to this and you've got a tough nut to crack. I'm still contemplating it...
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Reply #21 Friday, March 7, 2003 8:35 AM