War?
Monday, January 27, 2003 by joetheblow | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Ok. I hope this doesn't become a "lets blow them up" or a "give peace a chance" thread but I was wondering something stratigic (spell?)
What if the US attacks Iraq and since Iran is also part of the "axil of evil", maybe it too will feel threatened and attack the US troops as well. I actually think they will attack them and that is what Hussien means by "many body bags".
Does anyone think the US has thought of this?
What if the US attacks Iraq and since Iran is also part of the "axil of evil", maybe it too will feel threatened and attack the US troops as well. I actually think they will attack them and that is what Hussien means by "many body bags".
Does anyone think the US has thought of this?
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Weaksid
Reply #62 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 2:47 AM
Reply #62 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 2:47 AM
I'm trying to stay out of the Religion part. :hiding in cornor:
Politics you can shove somewhere. They don't interest me
Politics you can shove somewhere. They don't interest me
Doreen
Reply #63 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 9:24 AM
Reply #63 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 9:24 AM
Angela I doubt the goal is to sway each other but to look at the stuff from diff angles? I hate politics but being on this earth and sitting in the target zone sometimes you need to read about it (I'd like to find out when the next shuttle is leaving to the moon, when I hear/read up on some of it though)
KarmaGirl
Reply #64 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 9:47 AM
Reply #64 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 9:47 AM
Paxx, we do have socialized medical, it's called medicare and medicaid. Some of our tax money goes toward it. You have to meet certain qualifications to get it, but it is there. There are also very cheap healthcare plans for people who live in poverty (Michigan has one that is $5 a month). but, the person actually has to apply for it. Yes, it is not free to everyone, but it is there. There are also many managed healthcares that are less expensive and have 100% coverage. We get taxed less so that we can afford choices on what type of coverage we have. I rather be taxed less and have a choice than get taxed more.
I, personally, am not offended if another country ranks higher than the US, but it needs to be a comparison of apples to apples. I feel very strongly about our country (have a lot of family that has served in our military) so I do not like it when people compare the US to other countries and do not take all the factors into account. I also have faith in what our President is doing. I am sure that they are thinking about every angle of this possible military action. I am sure that there are many things that are said and done behind closed doors that we are not aware of. ....stepping off soap box now.....
I, personally, am not offended if another country ranks higher than the US, but it needs to be a comparison of apples to apples. I feel very strongly about our country (have a lot of family that has served in our military) so I do not like it when people compare the US to other countries and do not take all the factors into account. I also have faith in what our President is doing. I am sure that they are thinking about every angle of this possible military action. I am sure that there are many things that are said and done behind closed doors that we are not aware of. ....stepping off soap box now.....
werewolf
Reply #65 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:32 AM
Reply #65 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:32 AM
Actually, I believe most Iraqi like the American people, it's US policy they don't like.
Frogboy
Reply #66 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:55 PM
Reply #66 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 12:55 PM
Another thing to bear in mind about those rankings and the European-centricness of it - they lump the United States together while countries like Norway, with a population of 4.5 million, get their own ranking. Orange County California, has a population higher than 4.5 million and is supposedly quite a nice place to live.
It's like when they rank Luxemberg. It's a city for crying out loud basically.
Regarding Iraq and how they feel, Paxx unless you're prepared to present some evidence to show how the average Iraqi feels, you're just presenting your gut feeling as fact. For all you know, the average Iraqi likes Americans. You think the Kurds and Shites like Saddam better than the US? The Bathe party only represents something like 20% of the population. The rest are quite hostile to the regime.
There is no data to indicate how the average Iraqi feels about the US or its policies. It's just empty speculation. It's not like "Russia in the 50s" (and again, even then how does one compare? Do you have statistics from Russia in the 50s or are you just making assumptions? You think that Ukrainians, who were part of the Soviet Union, were enthralled with Moscow's views? Given that the countries that seem to like the US the most these days were former Soviet satellites one might argue that the people of the USSR liked Americans.)
It's like when they rank Luxemberg. It's a city for crying out loud basically.
Regarding Iraq and how they feel, Paxx unless you're prepared to present some evidence to show how the average Iraqi feels, you're just presenting your gut feeling as fact. For all you know, the average Iraqi likes Americans. You think the Kurds and Shites like Saddam better than the US? The Bathe party only represents something like 20% of the population. The rest are quite hostile to the regime.
There is no data to indicate how the average Iraqi feels about the US or its policies. It's just empty speculation. It's not like "Russia in the 50s" (and again, even then how does one compare? Do you have statistics from Russia in the 50s or are you just making assumptions? You think that Ukrainians, who were part of the Soviet Union, were enthralled with Moscow's views? Given that the countries that seem to like the US the most these days were former Soviet satellites one might argue that the people of the USSR liked Americans.)
craeonics
Reply #67 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 2:18 PM
Reply #67 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 2:18 PM
Did the people from the Russia know Americans? And vice versa. Unlikely, they just got what the media fed them.
<? include("rants/media_is.evil")>
As for those stats. US = country, Norway = country, ergo they can be compared.
I see the country I moved out of last week (moved into my space station orbiting Terra Barbaria, too many dumb people on the surface) is number eight on that list. Must be the bad weather. Now how come there are no tropical islands up there?
<? include("rants/media_is.evil")>
As for those stats. US = country, Norway = country, ergo they can be compared.
I see the country I moved out of last week (moved into my space station orbiting Terra Barbaria, too many dumb people on the surface) is number eight on that list. Must be the bad weather. Now how come there are no tropical islands up there?
Jafo
Reply #68 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 4:21 PM
Reply #68 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 4:21 PM
Brad....it's quite safe to make the assumption that most Iraqis hate the USA....just as it is safe also to assume that most Palestinians hate the Israelis or the English hate the IRA....etc, etc.
Obviously, there will be some, perhaps many who 'understand' the US-side of the situation [as it were], but that does not mean that they will consequently 'agree' with US policy/opinion.
When a really big country kicks the living 'crap' out of a smaller country it is a safe assumption the latter will despise the former, no matter what 'validation/justification' the bigger country claims.
Victims only see the hurt.....it's one of those arguments for why hitting a child is supposed to be 'wrong' and counter-productive.
The problem with every act, good or bad, is that a thinking man will 'find' justification to appease his conscience...and an ignorant fool knows no better.
Both sleep well...
Obviously, there will be some, perhaps many who 'understand' the US-side of the situation [as it were], but that does not mean that they will consequently 'agree' with US policy/opinion.
When a really big country kicks the living 'crap' out of a smaller country it is a safe assumption the latter will despise the former, no matter what 'validation/justification' the bigger country claims.
Victims only see the hurt.....it's one of those arguments for why hitting a child is supposed to be 'wrong' and counter-productive.
The problem with every act, good or bad, is that a thinking man will 'find' justification to appease his conscience...and an ignorant fool knows no better.
Both sleep well...
moshi
Reply #69 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 7:47 PM
Reply #69 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 7:47 PM
aren´t a lot of people in the US living in trailer parks? not really a high standard of living in my eyes ...
IPlural
Reply #71 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 7:58 PM
Reply #71 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 7:58 PM
the Appalachian mountains are full of people living an existance just above the worst thrid world nations forgotten...
what does a tax break do for them? nothing, they haven't any taxes to break because they are beyond broke.
anyway....
what does a tax break do for them? nothing, they haven't any taxes to break because they are beyond broke.
anyway....
paxx
Reply #72 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:05 PM
Reply #72 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:05 PM
Luxembourg is a definatly a country, Frogboy, and it has cities. It may not be a big country (2,500 sq km), but there are quite smaller countries, like Monaco (2 sq km) and San Marino (60 sq km).
Population has nothing to do with it. They make an index, in pro rata of the population. Sure there are differences between states, as there are differences between cities, towns, neighbourhoods. Internaly in the US, you have your own tools to rate States (I've seen some of those ratings) for different purposes. Would a West coast guy say that the ratings are East-Coast centrist? Would the rural farmer say that the ratings are too city-centrist? Would the red neck say that the tests are too Yank oriented?
Having a lower population does not advantage the US nor does it disadvantage it. It's just that there are some high degrees of poverty in the US. Sure, you're home of the richest men on the planet, but some of the poorest also live in your lands. Compared to more "social" oriented countries such as Norway, Sweden and Canada where the rich aren't as rich (although rich enough IMO) but the poor a little less poor, nor as many.
Karma: the problem with targeted help (for health care) is that there are always the in-betweens. For example if those who earn less that $12,000 get all medical and medication paid for. What happens if you earn $14,000/year and receive a $100,000 bill from the hospital? The guy who earns only $2,000 less gets it for free while you have to sell your house to pay the hospital, if you have a house. Or just decalre bankrupcy.
I personnaly prefer to pay more taxes and get something for it. I know someone who pays $3,000 per year in property taxes, but he gets nothing. He has to pay extra for a private company to collect his trash. Why the heck does he pay taxes for?
Population has nothing to do with it. They make an index, in pro rata of the population. Sure there are differences between states, as there are differences between cities, towns, neighbourhoods. Internaly in the US, you have your own tools to rate States (I've seen some of those ratings) for different purposes. Would a West coast guy say that the ratings are East-Coast centrist? Would the rural farmer say that the ratings are too city-centrist? Would the red neck say that the tests are too Yank oriented?
Having a lower population does not advantage the US nor does it disadvantage it. It's just that there are some high degrees of poverty in the US. Sure, you're home of the richest men on the planet, but some of the poorest also live in your lands. Compared to more "social" oriented countries such as Norway, Sweden and Canada where the rich aren't as rich (although rich enough IMO) but the poor a little less poor, nor as many.
Karma: the problem with targeted help (for health care) is that there are always the in-betweens. For example if those who earn less that $12,000 get all medical and medication paid for. What happens if you earn $14,000/year and receive a $100,000 bill from the hospital? The guy who earns only $2,000 less gets it for free while you have to sell your house to pay the hospital, if you have a house. Or just decalre bankrupcy.
I personnaly prefer to pay more taxes and get something for it. I know someone who pays $3,000 per year in property taxes, but he gets nothing. He has to pay extra for a private company to collect his trash. Why the heck does he pay taxes for?
DYSEQTA
Reply #73 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:44 PM
Reply #73 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:44 PM
"I'm sure the 'US' knows exactly what it's doing....they've done it before..."
...And failed.
"I dont think that Iran will get into it, but i am more worried with what N. Korea might try once(if) we are preoccupied with Iraq. Has anyone thought of that?"
And exactly what is Korea going to 'try'? All they have done is forcefully take their privacy back. Not everyone other than Americans are evil, psychotic portents of the devil you know...sheesh!
...And failed.
"I dont think that Iran will get into it, but i am more worried with what N. Korea might try once(if) we are preoccupied with Iraq. Has anyone thought of that?"
And exactly what is Korea going to 'try'? All they have done is forcefully take their privacy back. Not everyone other than Americans are evil, psychotic portents of the devil you know...sheesh!
Frogboy
Reply #74 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:49 PM
Reply #74 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:49 PM
Paxx: Population certainly has a lot to do with it. The bigger, more varied the population, geographical area, and cultural diversity, the more meaningless averaging gets.
As for how the average Iraqi feels, do you hate Iraqis? I don't hate Iraq. And I favor military action against its government.
As for how the average Iraqi feels, do you hate Iraqis? I don't hate Iraq. And I favor military action against its government.
joetheblow
Reply #75 Thursday, January 30, 2003 12:16 AM
Reply #75 Thursday, January 30, 2003 12:16 AM
well, I guess Iran won't make a move.
I am not to sure about North Korea. (Democratic Peoples Replublic of Korea; D.P.R.K.)
I think they will do something. I think the leaders main goal is to not end up like Iraq so they will try MANY things to make them militaraly powerful.
In the mean time DPRK will sell arms to anyone with money.
I really hope there is a statagy for DPRK if or when they deside to front an attack (by use of threat or using some sort of covert operation to destroy a part of the US)
On the issue of population, I feel that size matters and demographics matter as well. Of course a country who has mostly one culture and one race will seem peaceful. Rural areas tend to be very quiet. Cities tend to be very violent. The more cultures there are the more misunderstandings (and therefore more violence)
I love politics! Arguing points and talking to people. Making connections and hopefully really representing those who can not speak for themselves and doing something positive for everyone.
I want to be president of the UN one day
I am not to sure about North Korea. (Democratic Peoples Replublic of Korea; D.P.R.K.)
I think they will do something. I think the leaders main goal is to not end up like Iraq so they will try MANY things to make them militaraly powerful.
In the mean time DPRK will sell arms to anyone with money.
I really hope there is a statagy for DPRK if or when they deside to front an attack (by use of threat or using some sort of covert operation to destroy a part of the US)
On the issue of population, I feel that size matters and demographics matter as well. Of course a country who has mostly one culture and one race will seem peaceful. Rural areas tend to be very quiet. Cities tend to be very violent. The more cultures there are the more misunderstandings (and therefore more violence)
I love politics! Arguing points and talking to people. Making connections and hopefully really representing those who can not speak for themselves and doing something positive for everyone.
I want to be president of the UN one day
craeonics
Reply #76 Thursday, January 30, 2003 3:46 AM
Reply #76 Thursday, January 30, 2003 3:46 AM
Joe, what have you been eating? Why on earth would North Korea want to attack anyone? It's got to be one of the most isolated countries on the globe. Apart from their monthly skirmishes with South Korea (and the occasional kidnapping of Japanese citizens), they don't get out much.
IPlural
Reply #77 Thursday, January 30, 2003 3:48 AM
Reply #77 Thursday, January 30, 2003 3:48 AM
heck thats why they do what they do, because they don't want anyone to forget they exist
paxx
Reply #78 Thursday, January 30, 2003 8:20 AM
Reply #78 Thursday, January 30, 2003 8:20 AM
If population had really something to do with it, then there would be a lot more countries ranked before the US.
KarmaGirl
Reply #79 Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:54 AM
Reply #79 Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:54 AM
Paxx, I think that you need to look into how healthcare works in the US, as you obviously don't have all the facts. As I said, there are a lot of basically free healthcares out there (on top of Medicare and Medicaid), you just have to take the time to enroll in them. It's a "help yourself" type thing. There are also many free clinics (I donate to a free Womens clinic every year), but the person has to look for them. You will also not lose your house because you have a $100,000 medical bill. We have laws that protect people. The law is- as long as you make monthly payments (even if they are only $10) then the medical facility has to accept it as terms. (If this was not the case, my next door neighbor who has racked up over $2 million in medical bills due to a bad liver wouldn't have a home right now) If you don't pay at all, that is when you get in trouble. There are also many organizations that help people like that. But again, you have to put the effort forward and help yourself.
kthxbye
Reply #80 Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:12 AM
Reply #80 Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:12 AM
I'm making a very hard effor to stay out of any talks about the US, or especially, US healthcare, but... I just need to fill in the blanks on a few spots. It's nothing personal KG! 
"(on top of Medicare and Medicaid), you just have to take the time to enroll in them. It's a "help yourself" type thing."
... which turns down a very large majority of the applications for aid that it gets. These were created to help only two groups: The dirt poor and the elderly - and the coverage the dirt poor gets (from experience,) is also crappy in itself and not worth it unless you have small children. They absolutely refuse to assist the social group in the US which needs the most assistance with healthcare at the moment: The upper-lower class and the lower-middle class - the area of the population which is too 'rich' to qualify for governmet help and can't afford any of the so-called 'affordable' plans at their work - /IF/ such a plan is even offered.
"There are also many free clinics (I donate to a free Womens clinic every year), but the person has to look for them."
... where they exist. They aren't always available everywhere. Move out of the cities, and your chances of finding a clinic diminish dramatically (in my life's experience, they've always been clustered in the cities after all - go figure.) In fact, in some areas, geographically, it's like pulling teeth to even find them - and, sadly (I think free clinics are wonderful things, yes.) they have a habit of disappearing on you as well (its not the clinic's fault, mind you, they're expensive beasts to run after all.)
The sad fact is, a very /large/ portion of the US population has no access to healthcare that they either a) are poor enough for or
are rich enough poor.
"(on top of Medicare and Medicaid), you just have to take the time to enroll in them. It's a "help yourself" type thing."
... which turns down a very large majority of the applications for aid that it gets. These were created to help only two groups: The dirt poor and the elderly - and the coverage the dirt poor gets (from experience,) is also crappy in itself and not worth it unless you have small children. They absolutely refuse to assist the social group in the US which needs the most assistance with healthcare at the moment: The upper-lower class and the lower-middle class - the area of the population which is too 'rich' to qualify for governmet help and can't afford any of the so-called 'affordable' plans at their work - /IF/ such a plan is even offered.
"There are also many free clinics (I donate to a free Womens clinic every year), but the person has to look for them."
... where they exist. They aren't always available everywhere. Move out of the cities, and your chances of finding a clinic diminish dramatically (in my life's experience, they've always been clustered in the cities after all - go figure.) In fact, in some areas, geographically, it's like pulling teeth to even find them - and, sadly (I think free clinics are wonderful things, yes.) they have a habit of disappearing on you as well (its not the clinic's fault, mind you, they're expensive beasts to run after all.)
The sad fact is, a very /large/ portion of the US population has no access to healthcare that they either a) are poor enough for or
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Reply #61 Wednesday, January 29, 2003 2:28 AM