why no Talisman themes?
Saturday, November 9, 2002 by Vanilla Ice | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
i've tried Desktop X and didn't really like it, then i switched to Litestep which i'd been running for the best part of the last year, but i just found Talisman II and i switched the next day and i'm never going back, cause it's awesome. I've also tried Hoverdesk but it was horrible and buggy, not setting the desktop area most of the time and everything. so why isn't there a Talisman section on this site?
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moshi
Reply #22 Monday, November 11, 2002 8:12 AM
Reply #22 Monday, November 11, 2002 8:12 AM
"The last time I checked in, they said they weren't going to announce who the developers were anymore, and floach, the site, didn't seem to exist. I'll dig a bit."
that was a while ago. obviously most people did not like that "hidden dev team" idea. so the IndieStep dev team was formed and there was a codefork (not really a codefork, as the dev team that called itself "official" never released anything and quit recently). currently Ilmcuts and Message are the core of LS development.
FPN is here: http://floach.pimpin.info/
#fpn is at irc . openprojects . net (and wasn´t down if i remember correctly)
what date is your LiteStep build btw? (!about)
that was a while ago. obviously most people did not like that "hidden dev team" idea. so the IndieStep dev team was formed and there was a codefork (not really a codefork, as the dev team that called itself "official" never released anything and quit recently). currently Ilmcuts and Message are the core of LS development.
FPN is here: http://floach.pimpin.info/
#fpn is at irc . openprojects . net (and wasn´t down if i remember correctly)
what date is your LiteStep build btw? (!about)
moshi
Reply #23 Monday, November 11, 2002 8:16 AM
Reply #23 Monday, November 11, 2002 8:16 AM
Joeblade http://www.joeblade.com/ ,Shellfront http://www.shellfront.org and Blizzle http://blizzle.com/ provide more info on LS than FPN at the moment.
bakerstreet
Reply #24 Monday, November 11, 2002 8:33 AM
Reply #24 Monday, November 11, 2002 8:33 AM
cool, thanks for the links. To be honest I am using Talisman, playing with a bit of background PHP automation. The last LS build I consistantly used was the last release before they started insiting on the theme format. I remember updating several times and then falling back to old 'complete' packaged themes I had (Oct. 1999, maybe?). I still have the graphics for the popup and whatnot set aside. I'll surf around a bit after I get some sleep and see where things are at.
Thanks again for the links.
Thanks again for the links.
Jafo
Reply #25 Monday, November 11, 2002 8:56 AM
Reply #25 Monday, November 11, 2002 8:56 AM
baker...don't give up on LS....even stick-in-the-mud me has adopted the OTS format....even retaining 99% of my wacko functionality I'd toyed with over 5 years.
Just get a recent Indie build, grab a theme that DOES come with the 3rd party modules, set it up and reuse the same mods for subsequent themes, only altering them occasionally as new mod versions come out, making sure they don't break more than they fix.
Get a reliable 'core' of your own, that YOU are comfortable with, and only jump into others' themes if and when you have the urge to expand horizons.
The OTS standard is a boon to LS usage, not a backward step...
Just get a recent Indie build, grab a theme that DOES come with the 3rd party modules, set it up and reuse the same mods for subsequent themes, only altering them occasionally as new mod versions come out, making sure they don't break more than they fix.
Get a reliable 'core' of your own, that YOU are comfortable with, and only jump into others' themes if and when you have the urge to expand horizons.
The OTS standard is a boon to LS usage, not a backward step...
moshi
Reply #26 Monday, November 11, 2002 9:05 AM
Reply #26 Monday, November 11, 2002 9:05 AM
i liked LSDistro´s common modules directory though. kept the themes´ sizes smaller.
Jafo
Reply #27 Monday, November 11, 2002 9:11 AM
Reply #27 Monday, November 11, 2002 9:11 AM
Yes, but I prefer to group the 3rd party modules with the theme, since not all the themes will use them all, or may require different versions, eg, if you want to paint the background as the popup and use 9.3 instead of the 'standard' core module....
Besides, harddrives are big and modules aren't...
Besides, harddrives are big and modules aren't...
moshi
Reply #28 Monday, November 11, 2002 9:21 AM
Reply #28 Monday, November 11, 2002 9:21 AM
sure, but to use the "common modules" was never a must. i was more thinking of the space modules use in ZIP files (executables can´t be compressed too much). i heard some sites had problems with the used bandwidth recently
joetheblow
Reply #29 Monday, November 11, 2002 9:33 AM
Reply #29 Monday, November 11, 2002 9:33 AM
Talisman has PHP ability? Is that the same PHP for website design? I know DEsktopX has VB script and it can, once scripted, log on to the on-line database. I was planning to use that feture for better interaction of themes to a site. The secrurity thing is a problem. I do not want people to be able to get to the code of the DX and hack into the website database.
Anyway, Talisman looks very interesting indeed these days. i wouldn't give up DesktopX though. It has too many features I like and use. AND it doesn't replace the explorer shell, of which some do not want.
I really would love to give LiteStep a shot. Still that will be years away.....
Anyway, Talisman looks very interesting indeed these days. i wouldn't give up DesktopX though. It has too many features I like and use. AND it doesn't replace the explorer shell, of which some do not want.
I really would love to give LiteStep a shot. Still that will be years away.....
Jafo
Reply #30 Monday, November 11, 2002 9:42 AM
Reply #30 Monday, November 11, 2002 9:42 AM
OK so one of my 'full themes' [actually a shell] ended up at 4 meg, and included everything...and in bmp form, being prior to png support...all exe's modules and all docs.
Now, an OTS version will come in at about a meg, and quite a few wall submissions are larger than that...
moshi, Wincustomize may have 'heavy days' with bandwidth access but its accessibility is greater and more constant than any of the dedicated LS sites and any skin site as well, for that matter. Sure it can get a bit clogged when you get 1444 registered users online at the one time [a week or so ago]...just compare that with numbers at other sites...Custo is one order of magnitude smaller and still falls over...
Now, an OTS version will come in at about a meg, and quite a few wall submissions are larger than that...
moshi, Wincustomize may have 'heavy days' with bandwidth access but its accessibility is greater and more constant than any of the dedicated LS sites and any skin site as well, for that matter. Sure it can get a bit clogged when you get 1444 registered users online at the one time [a week or so ago]...just compare that with numbers at other sites...Custo is one order of magnitude smaller and still falls over...
moshi
Reply #31 Monday, November 11, 2002 9:58 AM
Reply #31 Monday, November 11, 2002 9:58 AM
oh, i was not speaking about Wincustomize specifically, all sites have this problem i guess.
btw: i don´t think that wallpapers (that usually use the most space in a zip file) are required for LS themes any longer, now that layercut and shortcut3 (and rainmation & rainlendar) support per-pixel alpha blending. on the other hand one can use a half-naked anime chick as wallpaper and downloads will increase dramatically
PNG BMP does not make too much difference in a ZIP anyways
well, let´s see what OTS2 will bring (Omar is working on that currently). some "common modules" that are used often and don´t get updated too much (as lsxcommand or ckvwm) won´t be that bad.
btw: i don´t think that wallpapers (that usually use the most space in a zip file) are required for LS themes any longer, now that layercut and shortcut3 (and rainmation & rainlendar) support per-pixel alpha blending. on the other hand one can use a half-naked anime chick as wallpaper and downloads will increase dramatically
PNG BMP does not make too much difference in a ZIP anyways
well, let´s see what OTS2 will bring (Omar is working on that currently). some "common modules" that are used often and don´t get updated too much (as lsxcommand or ckvwm) won´t be that bad.
Jafo
Reply #32 Monday, November 11, 2002 10:22 AM
Reply #32 Monday, November 11, 2002 10:22 AM
moshi...sometimes, especially with wall-derived themes, such as my Nijikon Fetchi renditions of Misery's wall work much more nicely when you let miniwall.dll load it and exit from memory...that way when you change your 'theme' you change it all in the one hit, like scripting Windowblinds to autoload/change as well.
The fun of the result is worth the effort [and added size]...
The fun of the result is worth the effort [and added size]...
Vanilla Ice
Reply #33 Monday, November 11, 2002 1:46 PM
Reply #33 Monday, November 11, 2002 1:46 PM
when they first started the OTS thing i was a bit confused and i stuck with LSDistro, but when i upgraded to the latest Indiestep build i changed to OTS and it was really a lot better. But i still hate having all the modules in each themes's directory so i always edited the themes to point ot one common modules folder. it's easier to update modules that way too.
but as far as having LS detect if you don't have ht emodule and load a default, that wouldn't work cause modules that do the same thing don't have the same features or the same syntax in the step.rc.
but as far as having LS detect if you don't have ht emodule and load a default, that wouldn't work cause modules that do the same thing don't have the same features or the same syntax in the step.rc.
Frogboy
Reply #34 Monday, November 11, 2002 2:51 PM
Reply #34 Monday, November 11, 2002 2:51 PM
As a site admin one thing I don't like about Talisman is that LIghtek doesn't have their own skin library but instead links to INDIVIDUAL skins on different sites making it appears as if they have their own skin library but in reality leaching off of the community sites.
I find that very distasteful.
Here's what I mean:
http://www.lighttek.com/themes2/
If you don't want to have your own skin library then point to the various websites that support you. Don't deep link to the actual files on other sites.
I find that very distasteful.
Here's what I mean:
http://www.lighttek.com/themes2/
If you don't want to have your own skin library then point to the various websites that support you. Don't deep link to the actual files on other sites.
JcRabbit
Reply #35 Monday, November 11, 2002 7:22 PM
Reply #35 Monday, November 11, 2002 7:22 PM
Sorry, Brad, but what makes you think that Lightek doesn't have some kind of deal with DeviantArt to do just that? I know we do. They host the Winstep themes page (which they did before anyway) and in return we provide DeviantArt some extra traffic and possibly new Deviants. Not much different from what is happening here, actually. 
Jorge Coelho
NextSTART 3.0 - A user interface you can actually use!
http://www.winstep.net - Winstep Software Technologies
IRC Chat: #winstep on AustNet
Jorge Coelho
NextSTART 3.0 - A user interface you can actually use!
http://www.winstep.net - Winstep Software Technologies
IRC Chat: #winstep on AustNet
bakerstreet
Reply #36 Monday, November 11, 2002 8:07 PM
Reply #36 Monday, November 11, 2002 8:07 PM
Frogboy: It was my understanding that they had an agreement with skinz.org when it was the sole storage area for Talisman themes. They also make mention of the sites they use on the 'add theme' section.
joetheblow: No, no built-in ability, but if you have PHP running on your machine, you can execute PHP files, either with a command, or at intervals with 'scheduled tasks' or some such. Theme files for most shells are just text files that can be parsed and altered by PHP scripts like any other file.
You can grab material off the internet and make menus and whatnot out of it, or you can use it to alert you to whatever by swapping out images, etc, like the recycle bin. On my fileserver I have a messageboard-type script, and I have PHP update messages to my desktop, along with the last entries from the ftp/web server logs, etc. Not much different than what Samurize or such apps do, but you aren't limited by using someone else's app.
You could do just as much with LS, or any shell that lets you refresh and pulls its theme info from a regular, parsable text file. I'm sure you could combine it with the scripting mods for LS as well.
I just wish refreshing was more low-key. Automated refreshing can get annoying when the whole thing kind of stutters for a second.
joetheblow: No, no built-in ability, but if you have PHP running on your machine, you can execute PHP files, either with a command, or at intervals with 'scheduled tasks' or some such. Theme files for most shells are just text files that can be parsed and altered by PHP scripts like any other file.
You can grab material off the internet and make menus and whatnot out of it, or you can use it to alert you to whatever by swapping out images, etc, like the recycle bin. On my fileserver I have a messageboard-type script, and I have PHP update messages to my desktop, along with the last entries from the ftp/web server logs, etc. Not much different than what Samurize or such apps do, but you aren't limited by using someone else's app.
You could do just as much with LS, or any shell that lets you refresh and pulls its theme info from a regular, parsable text file. I'm sure you could combine it with the scripting mods for LS as well.
I just wish refreshing was more low-key. Automated refreshing can get annoying when the whole thing kind of stutters for a second.
paxx
Reply #37 Monday, November 11, 2002 9:18 PM
Reply #37 Monday, November 11, 2002 9:18 PM
Hum, anilla Ice and Bakerstreet got me curious.
Tried Talisman way back when, it was OK but lacking. I'll give v2 a shot.
Tried Talisman way back when, it was OK but lacking. I'll give v2 a shot.
Vanilla Ice
Reply #38 Monday, November 11, 2002 9:58 PM
Reply #38 Monday, November 11, 2002 9:58 PM
Lightteck isn't actually leeching cause they aren't linking to individual files, just the page for that theme (if my memory is right).
paxx: be sure to d/l the 2.5beta instead of the 2.31 version cause if you look at the themes section, most of the new ones require 2.5.
paxx: be sure to d/l the 2.5beta instead of the 2.31 version cause if you look at the themes section, most of the new ones require 2.5.
bakerstreet
Reply #39 Monday, November 11, 2002 10:08 PM
Reply #39 Monday, November 11, 2002 10:08 PM
They do have links to the files themselves, but I had assumed they had worked out permission. In my experience Lighttek has always been good-natured. The original situation at Lighttek was more of 'you send an email with a screenshot and a link", and where that link happened to be was the skinner's business. Many hosted their own themes, if I am not mistaken. I don't think there is any kind of concerted effort to covertly leech.
If they don't have it worked out with the sites, one would assume that admins would ALLOW/DENY those files or directories so that they couldn't be sucessfully deep-linked. On file-hosting sites that rely on advertising I had assumed that was a given.
If they don't have it worked out with the sites, one would assume that admins would ALLOW/DENY those files or directories so that they couldn't be sucessfully deep-linked. On file-hosting sites that rely on advertising I had assumed that was a given.
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Reply #21 Monday, November 11, 2002 7:54 AM
The last time I checked in, they said they weren't going to announce who the developers were anymore, and floach, the site, didn't seem to exist. I'll dig a bit.