IE 6.0 ... end of the line?
Saturday, October 26, 2002 by goodmorphing | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I have heard from usually reliable sources that there are no plans to keep developing IE. Instead all efforts will be on the MSN Explorer. I am really hoping this is wrong...
but if it turns out to be true, what alternate browsers will fill the space... Opera? Netscape?
but if it turns out to be true, what alternate browsers will fill the space... Opera? Netscape?
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Tarkus
Reply #42 Monday, October 28, 2002 11:57 PM
Reply #42 Monday, October 28, 2002 11:57 PM
Don't hold your breath, Jobeleca. That was a LONG time ago.
craeonics
Reply #43 Tuesday, October 29, 2002 4:18 AM
Reply #43 Tuesday, October 29, 2002 4:18 AM
Umm, Chris, regarding #2, I have several keywords set up for bookmarks. As in: if I type 'css2' I'll whizz off to the css2 specs and so on.
And baker, I think it would be better if mouse gestures were user definable than there being a 'standard mouse gesture language'. Now I find myself accidentally reloading sites way too much (I right-click a lot).
And baker, I think it would be better if mouse gestures were user definable than there being a 'standard mouse gesture language'. Now I find myself accidentally reloading sites way too much (I right-click a lot).
scratch_pentagon
Reply #44 Tuesday, October 29, 2002 7:50 PM
Reply #44 Tuesday, October 29, 2002 7:50 PM
Yeah, #2 is very possible with Mozilla, and it's even highly customizable. If you put %s in the URL that you've given a custom keyword to, it will replace that with whatever you type after the keyword. So, for example, I made a "dict" keyword with a %s in the URL, so now whenever i want the definition of a word, i just type "dict word" in the location field and hit enter, and it does the rest for me.
Aqua.
Reply #45 Tuesday, October 29, 2002 7:53 PM
Reply #45 Tuesday, October 29, 2002 7:53 PM
I agree with Tarkus. Mozilla's nice but still has a way to go. I'll stick to Netcaptor:
1. All new windows upon up as new tabs. None of this goofy Javascript stuff that launches an entirely new window.
2. User-specified aliases. I type "wcm" in the address bar and it takes me to the wincustomize message board page. I type "au" to go to art uproar. I type "da" to to go dev art and so on. Mozilla has some vaguely similar mechanism but its not a personal, customizable system. Its based off of common set of keywords.
3. When a URL shortcut is clicked somewhere, it displays as a new tab in the current instance of Netcaptor. Unlike Mozilla which either launches a new instance of Mozilla (defeating the purpose of a tabbed browser) or redirecting the CURRENT tab to the the URL in the shortcut (again, defeating the purpose of a tabbeQd browser). So I'm forced to only use Mozilla's bookmark menu.
4. I can drag tabs and reorganize them. I don't think Mozilla can do this.
If Mozilla ever does the above, then I'm sold.
===========================================
I went to the mozdev message board and they said you can do all that by modifying a few preferences and installing one of the tabs extensions.
1. All new windows upon up as new tabs. None of this goofy Javascript stuff that launches an entirely new window.
2. User-specified aliases. I type "wcm" in the address bar and it takes me to the wincustomize message board page. I type "au" to go to art uproar. I type "da" to to go dev art and so on. Mozilla has some vaguely similar mechanism but its not a personal, customizable system. Its based off of common set of keywords.
3. When a URL shortcut is clicked somewhere, it displays as a new tab in the current instance of Netcaptor. Unlike Mozilla which either launches a new instance of Mozilla (defeating the purpose of a tabbed browser) or redirecting the CURRENT tab to the the URL in the shortcut (again, defeating the purpose of a tabbeQd browser). So I'm forced to only use Mozilla's bookmark menu.
4. I can drag tabs and reorganize them. I don't think Mozilla can do this.
If Mozilla ever does the above, then I'm sold.
===========================================
I went to the mozdev message board and they said you can do all that by modifying a few preferences and installing one of the tabs extensions.
Tarkus
Reply #46 Tuesday, October 29, 2002 8:02 PM
Reply #46 Tuesday, October 29, 2002 8:02 PM
scratch - I do that in NetCaptor too, only I do my dictionary searches using "d word".
I have another one set up so that I can put "cd " before the current url, and it will automatically send the link and my email address to ChangeDetection.com, so it can start monitoring that page for me, and then email me when there are any changes.
I have another one set up so that I can put "cd " before the current url, and it will automatically send the link and my email address to ChangeDetection.com, so it can start monitoring that page for me, and then email me when there are any changes.
Koasati
Reply #47 Tuesday, October 29, 2002 11:24 PM
Reply #47 Tuesday, October 29, 2002 11:24 PM
Skoalman....thanx for the MyIE2 link.........it has replaced Crazy Browser. 
goodmorphing
Reply #48 Wednesday, October 30, 2002 2:10 AM
Reply #48 Wednesday, October 30, 2002 2:10 AM
I have been trying these and I like the MyIE2 also! Mozilla reminds me of Opera... I am still figuring it out. I am going to try the rest.... I was very impressed with MyIE2, though! 
Skoalman
Reply #49 Wednesday, October 30, 2002 10:25 AM
Reply #49 Wednesday, October 30, 2002 10:25 AM
Koasati,
No problem!
MyIE2 just struck me as having all the features of NetCaptor, plus more. It's not perfect, but it's as close as I've seen (if you don't mind using the IE engine) and is still being actively developed (I read today that a new beta version will be released "soon"). They have quite a bit of activity at their forums, too, which makes it feel "fresh". In addition, the author has been quite responsive to questions and suggestions via email.
(By the way, I'm not affiliated with them or anything... I just think it's a great piece of software. Don't mean to sound like an advertisement...)
Take care.
-Skoalman
No problem!
MyIE2 just struck me as having all the features of NetCaptor, plus more. It's not perfect, but it's as close as I've seen (if you don't mind using the IE engine) and is still being actively developed (I read today that a new beta version will be released "soon"). They have quite a bit of activity at their forums, too, which makes it feel "fresh". In addition, the author has been quite responsive to questions and suggestions via email.
(By the way, I'm not affiliated with them or anything... I just think it's a great piece of software. Don't mean to sound like an advertisement...)
Take care.
-Skoalman
Tarkus
Reply #50 Wednesday, October 30, 2002 3:44 PM
Reply #50 Wednesday, October 30, 2002 3:44 PM
MyIE2 *doesn't* have all the features of NetCaptor. It doesn't have some of the built-in security features and doesn't have smart popup blocking. The tabs also don't use FavIcons, and the animation to indicate the status of a page loading leaves a lot to be desired. There's probably more, but that's just off the top of my head.
Tarkus
Reply #51 Wednesday, October 30, 2002 3:46 PM
Reply #51 Wednesday, October 30, 2002 3:46 PM
Oh yeah, MyIE2 also doesn't have the equivalent of NC's CaptorBar, which I've really grown to love.
goodmorphing
Reply #52 Wednesday, October 30, 2002 5:53 PM
I am having trouble opening Netcaptor... and it doesn't skin on my comp. Still checking it out.
Reply #52 Wednesday, October 30, 2002 5:53 PM
I am having trouble opening Netcaptor... and it doesn't skin on my comp. Still checking it out.
goodmorphing
Reply #54 Wednesday, October 30, 2002 9:57 PM
Reply #54 Wednesday, October 30, 2002 9:57 PM
I got NetCaptor working now... I like it as well. I really like MyIE2 (especially the free part). I am still going to keep trying them both (NetCaptor has a 15 day trial). I really like that simple collector feature in MyIE2. If it works well, maybe I could get rid of the turbo notes (whick are a big drag on resources for some reason.
Skoalman
Reply #55 Thursday, October 31, 2002 9:09 AM
Reply #55 Thursday, October 31, 2002 9:09 AM
Tarkus,
I guess I should have clarified that it has all of the features that are important to me. I found the smart pop-up blocking in NetCaptor to be too smart and stopped using it - I'd prefer to get a pop-up once and add it to my block list (I'd rather see it and decide for myself). FavIcons and animations don't rank as high as the functionality to me, but you are right - MyIE2 does not have those. And, I never used the Captor bar because I found it to be somewhat redundant (for the number of times that I look at History, for example, it's just as easy for me to use the menu). MyIE2 has a couple of additional toolbars that can be displayed (i.e. IE Extensions and external apps toolbars).
Of sourse, the big thing for me is the ability to view each tab as a child window. With NetCaptor, if I wanted to view two pages side-by-side, I had to start another copy of Netcaptor (I did not allow multiple instances by default, so I'd have to go and turn that option on first) or open IE itself to view the second page. To each his own, I suppose.
What security features are lacking (I'm not trying to be argumentative - I really don't know)?
Thanks!
-Skoalman
I guess I should have clarified that it has all of the features that are important to me.
I found the smart pop-up blocking in NetCaptor to be too smart and stopped using it - I'd prefer to get a pop-up once and add it to my block list (I'd rather see it and decide for myself). FavIcons and animations don't rank as high as the functionality to me, but you are right - MyIE2 does not have those. And, I never used the Captor bar because I found it to be somewhat redundant (for the number of times that I look at History, for example, it's just as easy for me to use the menu). MyIE2 has a couple of additional toolbars that can be displayed (i.e. IE Extensions and external apps toolbars).Of sourse, the big thing for me is the ability to view each tab as a child window. With NetCaptor, if I wanted to view two pages side-by-side, I had to start another copy of Netcaptor (I did not allow multiple instances by default, so I'd have to go and turn that option on first) or open IE itself to view the second page. To each his own, I suppose.
What security features are lacking (I'm not trying to be argumentative - I really don't know)?
Thanks!
-Skoalman
Tarkus
Reply #56 Thursday, October 31, 2002 1:22 PM
Reply #56 Thursday, October 31, 2002 1:22 PM
Skoalman: If you don't like Smart Popup Blocking, you *can* do it the manual way that you like. I found that to be too cumbersome, personally, and resulted in more false blocks than what I get with SPB.
You're right about the MDI child windows and the third party toolbars -- those are good features. I emailed the NC author about the toolbars thing, and pointed him in the direction of MyIE2. He said he'd look into it, but no promises. I didn't even know about that child window feature until reading this thread. I think Opera does that, too.
Regarding the security features, NetCaptor allows you to add and remove sites to and from the Restricted and Trusted sites, on the fly. It also allows you to disable/enable things like ActiveX and scripting on the fly. As I recall, MyIE2 has a similar feature, but it only applies to the current page. In general, that's something I'd want to implement *before* the page is loaded.
You're right about the MDI child windows and the third party toolbars -- those are good features. I emailed the NC author about the toolbars thing, and pointed him in the direction of MyIE2. He said he'd look into it, but no promises. I didn't even know about that child window feature until reading this thread. I think Opera does that, too.
Regarding the security features, NetCaptor allows you to add and remove sites to and from the Restricted and Trusted sites, on the fly. It also allows you to disable/enable things like ActiveX and scripting on the fly. As I recall, MyIE2 has a similar feature, but it only applies to the current page. In general, that's something I'd want to implement *before* the page is loaded.
Skoalman
Reply #57 Thursday, October 31, 2002 3:22 PM
Reply #57 Thursday, October 31, 2002 3:22 PM
Hi, Tarkus.
Thanks for the info re: the security features. I don't use those features either (livin' on the edge!), so I never really noticed the differences, but I can certainly see where they would be important for some folks.
I was using the manual pop-up blocking in NetCaptor, and find that it works pretty much identically to the way MyIE2 does it, so that's an even swap for me.
I'm a registered owner of NetCaptor, so I'll keep watching that for future enhancements. Maybe I'll switch back... Maybe I'll use both!
By the way, with NetCaptor, do you find that when you select a bookmark from the links bar, focus is not put back to the page that was just loaded (even though it looks like it is)? You have to click on the page to restore focus before you can click on anything on the page? The author acknowledged this as a problem with me in private emails (back when v6 was in beta), but I never saw it on any of the known issues lists nor has it been fixed (on my system, anyhow). This was another annoyance with NetCaptor that has prompted me to make the switch to MyIE2.
Anyhow, thanks for the great discussion. Take care.
-Skoalman
Thanks for the info re: the security features. I don't use those features either (livin' on the edge!), so I never really noticed the differences, but I can certainly see where they would be important for some folks.
I was using the manual pop-up blocking in NetCaptor, and find that it works pretty much identically to the way MyIE2 does it, so that's an even swap for me.
I'm a registered owner of NetCaptor, so I'll keep watching that for future enhancements. Maybe I'll switch back... Maybe I'll use both!
By the way, with NetCaptor, do you find that when you select a bookmark from the links bar, focus is not put back to the page that was just loaded (even though it looks like it is)? You have to click on the page to restore focus before you can click on anything on the page? The author acknowledged this as a problem with me in private emails (back when v6 was in beta), but I never saw it on any of the known issues lists nor has it been fixed (on my system, anyhow). This was another annoyance with NetCaptor that has prompted me to make the switch to MyIE2.
Anyhow, thanks for the great discussion. Take care.
-Skoalman
goodmorphing
Reply #58 Thursday, October 31, 2002 3:47 PM
Reply #58 Thursday, October 31, 2002 3:47 PM
I was wondering.... MyIE2 doesn't have an un-install. Is it OK to just delete the folder? I goofed and wanted a new copy, so I did that then unzipped the downloaded copy again to fix things up. But if I did want to un-install it, is that all I have to do? That was a little worrisome to me, that I couldn't find a way to take it off.
Tarkus
Reply #59 Thursday, October 31, 2002 4:48 PM
Reply #59 Thursday, October 31, 2002 4:48 PM
Skoalman: I no longer use the Links bar, but I too noticed that annoyance in the past. I have no idea if it's fixed. I now use the auto-hiding CaptorBar, and it doesn't have that problem.
paxx
Reply #60 Friday, November 1, 2002 8:17 AM
Reply #60 Friday, November 1, 2002 8:17 AM
goodmorphing, MyIE2 doesn't have an install either. The executable is in the zip. So, I'm pretty sure it's safe to just delete the folder since no other files are placed anywhere nor anything new written in the registry.
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Reply #41 Monday, October 28, 2002 6:17 PM