Credits Question
Sunday, October 20, 2002 by Aqua. | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Lets say you started with a wallpaper by someone else and then applied so many filters to it that nooone can tell that the two wallpapers are related, even looking at them side by side, would you still have to give credits for the wallpaper you started from way back when?
I'm asking because there is not a single piece of the new wallpaper that can be traced back to the original wallpaper.
Look at http://jobeleca.bravepages.com/graphics/Infected_Orange_T1.jpg , http://jobeleca.bravepages.com/graphics/Electric-Dragon---Blue.jpg , http://jobeleca.bravepages.com/graphics/Electric-Dragon---Green.jpg , and http://jobeleca.bravepages.com/graphics/Electric-Dragon---Fire.jpg to see what I mean. The first link is original wallpaper, the latter 3 are what my question is in reference to.
I'm asking because there is not a single piece of the new wallpaper that can be traced back to the original wallpaper.
Look at http://jobeleca.bravepages.com/graphics/Infected_Orange_T1.jpg , http://jobeleca.bravepages.com/graphics/Electric-Dragon---Blue.jpg , http://jobeleca.bravepages.com/graphics/Electric-Dragon---Green.jpg , and http://jobeleca.bravepages.com/graphics/Electric-Dragon---Fire.jpg to see what I mean. The first link is original wallpaper, the latter 3 are what my question is in reference to.
Aqua.
Reply #2 Sunday, October 20, 2002 8:43 PM
Reply #2 Sunday, October 20, 2002 8:43 PM
For the above links (second post in this thread), copy and paste into a browser, and remember to put the http stuff in front to make them valid addresses.
citats
Reply #3 Sunday, October 20, 2002 11:26 PM
Reply #3 Sunday, October 20, 2002 11:26 PM
If you feel the need to ask that question then even you feel that it might be wrong not to credit your inspiration. Not only should you credit the author I believe you should ask the original author if he or she approves of your use of their image.
§tatic...
§tatic...
Aqua.
Reply #4 Sunday, October 20, 2002 11:31 PM
Reply #4 Sunday, October 20, 2002 11:31 PM
Which I have done. I was basically posing this question after the fact to see what other people thought of the issue.
Jafo
Reply #5 Monday, October 21, 2002 12:44 AM
Reply #5 Monday, October 21, 2002 12:44 AM
There have been a few walls submitted which were recognized as another's, but with 'some' distortion filters.
They were rejected outright.
If the source of the work is able to be recognized, even a tiny part of it, then credit AND consent is required.
If it is TOTALLY impossible to discern any similarity what-so-ever, then consent and/or credit would be meaningless and irrelevant.
However....
Don't assume that a filter frenzy will necessarily camoflage a work sufficiently to hide the source.
If the inspiration/source is apparent then the credit/consent is mandatory...
They were rejected outright.
If the source of the work is able to be recognized, even a tiny part of it, then credit AND consent is required.
If it is TOTALLY impossible to discern any similarity what-so-ever, then consent and/or credit would be meaningless and irrelevant.
However....
Don't assume that a filter frenzy will necessarily camoflage a work sufficiently to hide the source.
If the inspiration/source is apparent then the credit/consent is mandatory...
Aqua.
Reply #6 Monday, October 21, 2002 12:54 AM
Reply #6 Monday, October 21, 2002 12:54 AM
Jafo, would you take a look at the four wallpapers I linked to above and tell me whether or not you can dicern any similarity of the latter three to the first one?
Basically evaluate them as if you were deciding whether or not to accept them as wallpapers and put your thinking and your judgement in this thread. I'm basically using this thread as a learning opportunity.
Basically evaluate them as if you were deciding whether or not to accept them as wallpapers and put your thinking and your judgement in this thread. I'm basically using this thread as a learning opportunity.
bakerstreet
Reply #7 Monday, October 21, 2002 1:27 AM
Reply #7 Monday, October 21, 2002 1:27 AM
I can't see any remaining similarities. Granted, the original was pretty abstract in and of itself, which would make it pretty hard to point anything out anyway. If it were a person, or a car or something it might take a bit more scrambling.
My question would be, if you are gonna end up with something so radiacally different, why start with that image at all. You could pretty much paint regions of color similar to the original and come up with the same thing. Why not start out with random, Pollock-esque paint doodles and filter the heck out of them? Or maybe pick up a fractal generator, and then manipulate the fractal?
The reason I mention this is that while you would probably defeat normal watermarking with this many filters, in the future you will have more solid tagging, and even if you scramble the visual image, the metadata will remain. It would take little more than a non-viewable header to give your original away. I don't think we are far off from something of the sort.
My question would be, if you are gonna end up with something so radiacally different, why start with that image at all. You could pretty much paint regions of color similar to the original and come up with the same thing. Why not start out with random, Pollock-esque paint doodles and filter the heck out of them? Or maybe pick up a fractal generator, and then manipulate the fractal?
The reason I mention this is that while you would probably defeat normal watermarking with this many filters, in the future you will have more solid tagging, and even if you scramble the visual image, the metadata will remain. It would take little more than a non-viewable header to give your original away. I don't think we are far off from something of the sort.
Aqua.
Reply #8 Monday, October 21, 2002 11:57 AM
Reply #8 Monday, October 21, 2002 11:57 AM
Well, as for why I started with the original image at all...
Quite simply, I was bored. I hadn't intended to make a wallpaper, I was just fooling around with some filters and realized that it looked pretty cool so I made it a wallpaper after all.
If people seem to like this style wallpaper I might just start out with the random color areas like you suggested.
Quite simply, I was bored. I hadn't intended to make a wallpaper, I was just fooling around with some filters and realized that it looked pretty cool so I made it a wallpaper after all.
If people seem to like this style wallpaper I might just start out with the random color areas like you suggested.
Jafo
Reply #9 Monday, October 21, 2002 5:49 PM
Reply #9 Monday, October 21, 2002 5:49 PM
Jobelica...I tried and got spammed links and spent the next few minutes killing spawned windows.
Perhaps another time....
Perhaps another time....
Aqua.
Reply #11 Monday, October 21, 2002 6:11 PM
Reply #11 Monday, October 21, 2002 6:11 PM
Spawned windows? 
Not good at all.
I'll look into that.
Not good at all.I'll look into that.
Aqua.
Reply #12 Monday, October 21, 2002 6:33 PM
Reply #12 Monday, October 21, 2002 6:33 PM
Ok, use this http://jobeleca.bravepages.com/graphics/wc_credits_question.htm You shouldn't get any popups there.
Jafo
Reply #13 Monday, October 21, 2002 7:25 PM
Reply #13 Monday, October 21, 2002 7:25 PM
Thanks for that one...
In this specific case I'd say there's no problem...no-one would make the connection to the original, so a 'credit' wouldn't be marranted.
Were you to submit them here at Wincustomize then the colour variations would need to be included in the one zip, as multi colour uploads are normally rejected...[no-one really wants 16.7 million variations of the one wall].
Lastly, the more observant critic 'may' discern that it's a filter-puked blob that took a 'machine' moments to generate and it'd be rejected anyway....
In this specific case I'd say there's no problem...no-one would make the connection to the original, so a 'credit' wouldn't be marranted.
Were you to submit them here at Wincustomize then the colour variations would need to be included in the one zip, as multi colour uploads are normally rejected...[no-one really wants 16.7 million variations of the one wall].
Lastly, the more observant critic 'may' discern that it's a filter-puked blob that took a 'machine' moments to generate and it'd be rejected anyway....
Aqua.
Reply #15 Monday, October 21, 2002 7:40 PM
Reply #15 Monday, October 21, 2002 7:40 PM
Unfortunately, I already submitted the 3 color variations as three different wallpapers a couple days ago. I really wish there was a faster turn around on these things.
I guess at the moment I'll just hope that whoever judges it accepts the fire version and rejects the other two version. At some later date I suppose I would update it with the two other version in the zip file.
At any rate, thank you for your comments.
I guess at the moment I'll just hope that whoever judges it accepts the fire version and rejects the other two version. At some later date I suppose I would update it with the two other version in the zip file.
At any rate, thank you for your comments.
Jafo
Reply #16 Monday, October 21, 2002 8:22 PM
Reply #16 Monday, October 21, 2002 8:22 PM
OK, WOM...you got me with a typo...
Jobeleca...that'll teach me to be away at the MotoGP and not look at the uploads....unfortunately you now have mail... you'll have to re-up them in a zip...
Jobeleca...that'll teach me to be away at the MotoGP and not look at the uploads....unfortunately you now have mail... you'll have to re-up them in a zip...
Aqua.
Reply #17 Monday, October 21, 2002 8:38 PM
Reply #17 Monday, October 21, 2002 8:38 PM
Ok, I've uploaded Electric Dragon as a single file.
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Reply #1 Sunday, October 20, 2002 8:40 PM
jobeleca.bravepages.com/graphics/Electric-Dragon---Blue.jpg
jobeleca.bravepages.com/graphics/Electric-Dragon---Green.jpg
jobeleca.bravepages.com/graphics/Electric-Dragon---Fire.jpg