Has Microsoft opened the door for Linux
Thursday, May 30, 2013 by Philly0381 | Discussion: Personal Computing
So my question is that since Microsoft has chosen to make changes to it's Windows OS will it have the effect of Desktop PC users giving Linux (Ubuntu) a look at and try on their desktops?
Is there enough software available that the user could transition to Linux?
Okay, this is not meant to bash Windows 8 but to ask a valid question when it comes down to the Desktop PC. Lets keep it friendly.
Reply #23 Friday, May 31, 2013 1:20 PM
OK, so Windows 8 does not suit everyone but I think the main problem with it is that it is designed for a touchscreen computer or laptop. Mac have tried this in the past and Steve Jobs pointed out that it was not practical. The fact that people want a Start menu seems to back this fact up. It would be interesting to know how many people have or would want a touchscreen apart from the tablets.
Reply #24 Friday, May 31, 2013 1:50 PM
OK, so Windows 8 does not suit everyone but I think the main problem with it is that it is designed for a touchscreen computer or laptop. Mac have tried this in the past and Steve Jobs pointed out that it was not practical. The fact that people want a Start menu seems to back this fact up. It would be interesting to know how many people have or would want a touchscreen apart from the tablets.
Touch screen monitors were made to make your desktop or laptop more like a tablet. W8 is used for tablets and phones, it was designed to have one OS power all devices for Microsoft. From a business perspective it makes perfect sense and saves a ton of money rather having three different OS's that your having to work on, not to mention paying three times the number of people to push all three teams.
So don't think for a minute that MS went out of there way to support a monitor. Monitor manufacturers are just taking advantage of the new feature and pushing monitors that support it. I don't know the sales numbers on touchscreen monitors but i'd be surprised if it out numbers traditional monitors.
Reply #26 Friday, May 31, 2013 2:41 PM
Quoting Seleuceia, reply 22
Quoting kona0197, reply 10Seleuceia - Your last post is full of statements that are simply not true.
Care to elaborate?
Nothing TO elaborate. Your post was SPOT ON with some of the most logical and valid points presented.
i agree
Reply #27 Monday, June 3, 2013 12:56 PM
The main reason why W8 turns off people is because of its UI...as far as I'm concerned, Linux distros don't solve that issue because they too have different UIs from what people are expecting
Take a look at the top Linux distros. The UI is incredibly easy to learn. Even as easy as Windows.
There are many programs in Linux that do the same thing the Windows version does. There are no shortage of Windows replacement programs. And you can run Windows apps inside of Linux with a program called WINE.
I have no problem getting drivers for Linux. I will agree that they are not the latest drivers in some cases. Linux systems running hotter than Windows systems is a load of bull. I have found Linux systems to use the system resources better than Windows.
Absolutely not true. Many of the top distros have third party codecs built in, and the ones that do not simply ask you if you want to download the codecs. One download, one install, done.
Command line is almost a thing of the past. You hardly ever need to use it. The GUI has taken over the command line.
By the way if you dislike Linux, do you use any Android devices? HA!
Reply #28 Monday, June 3, 2013 2:25 PM
I don't disagree with this statement...however, I believe W8 is very easy to learn (and very similar to W7)...therefore, if W7 lovers are complaining about the W8 UI, then I wouldn't be surprised if they would complain about any Linux UI as well...it's not a slant at Linux UIs, but rather a "if A and B are both slightly different than C, and C lovers don't like A simply because it's different, then why would they like B?"...W8 is identical to W7 minus the start menu -- any Linux UI is only going to be more different and therefore more problematic....
This is true, and I do believe I acknowledged this when I said any task that can be done on Windows can also be done on Linux....the problem is that in many cases you may have to use a different program in order to do that task, and that is not going to be acceptable for many people...
As an example, both Adobe Photoshop and GIMP can be used for graphic design (they complete the same task) but Photoshop lovers are not going to want to have to use GIMP, they are going to want Photoshop....
Of course, you can use WINE to get around this, but there's a catch....it's not a simple matter of "Run WINE, install and run Photoshop"...entire tutorials are needed for the inexperienced user to install and run Photoshop (at least a legitimate version), and it's a similar deal for installing other programs meant for Windows...in many cases you have to install fonts or dll files or whatnot (all via a command prompt) just to get the preferred Windows program to even work properly...this may not be a problem for a computer savvy person, but for the average computer user this is simply too much of a hassle when there is an easier alternative of simply running Windows in the first place....
There are high profile programs that in the eyes of some lack adequate substitutes (Photoshop, AutoCAD, MS Office etc.)...you also have games exclusive to Windows....for either set, is a hassle or not possible to run in Linux...just as an example, one of my Sins friends tried to run the game on his Linux side via wine, but the performance was so poor he had to get a copy of W7 to play the game....WINE is nice but it does not solve everything (unless you are Thoumsin) and does not work for everyone...
I was never able to get my Nvidia driver to work...the supposedly compatible 314 version didn't work and neither did using Bumblebee...I also never found a good driver for my touchpad...I searched the Internet to death and asked an experienced Linux user for help, and eventually I just said screw it because I basically needed Windows to run most of my software anyway...I'm not a computer pro or Linux expert, but I feel I can think of myself as a fairly computer savvy person and I definitely put a lot of effort into trying to solve the problem, all to no avail...I can't imagine an average computer user trying to get all of that to work on their own....
I cannot personally confirm or deny this from tests on my own system, but my Linux friend casually mentioned it and some research on the Internet shared the same thoughts...maybe a bunch of people are wrong (wouldn't be the first time) but it's my understanding that Intel chips run a little cooler on Windows...never seen anywhere that it was a significant difference but it's just a case in point that Linux drivers sometimes aren't as easy to come by or as good....
I agree with you on a distro like Linux Mint...I don't think you could say the same for something like Linux Arch...not that Arch is the best thing to compare to....if any Linux distro made headway against Windows it would probably be Mint or some type of Ubuntu...
Every time I've found a tutorial explaining how to do something on Linux, it almost always involves the command prompt...I'd say it always involved the command prompt but there may have been that one time I don't remember where everything in the tutorial could be done via the GUI...for the savvy person it isn't unbearable but there is a learning curve and I hate having to look up how to do everything...
I have an iPhone 4 (got it as a gift, can't complain)....I like it, not sure if I love it....when I get my next phone, I'll definitely be looking at all my options, Android and W8 included...anyway...
I don't hate Linux, and I will freely admit that it has advantages over Windows, but I just don't see it replacing Windows anytime in the foreseeable future...
I have installed Vista, W7, and W8 many times on my 2 laptops, and have never had any problem finding and installing the latest drivers I need...I cannot say the same for when I installed Linux...I can play my games and use MS office just fine in Windows; in the past I've used Adobe Photoshop when I did some graphic design; in the near future I'll be using Autodesk Inventor....I would not be able to use all those programs in Linux, and the ones that would work would require some research and effort to get working in Linux...
To answer this question more directly: YES
But, "giving Linux a look" is a lot different than actually using Linux or replacing Windows with it...also, I think the rising popularity with Linux has more to do with the success of certain distro teams (Mint, Ubuntu) and 3rd party software (VLC, GIMP, Office Libre) than with any decision made by Microsoft....
Reply #29 Monday, June 3, 2013 3:14 PM
Actually it's gotten a lot easier. Simply insert a CD and install. Most distros know you are using WINE so it just installs like it would on Windows.
Reply #30 Monday, June 3, 2013 4:58 PM
Do you know anything about performance issues, such as what a game or an autocad may run into? I couldn't personally test it (since I couldn't get my discrete graphics driver to work) but my friend tells me it there is a significant hit to performance (borderline unplayable for the games he was interested in)...this was a couple years ago on a computer with respectable specs...
If that has gotten a lot better and I can get my damn Nvidia driver to work, I'd consider reinstalling Nadia....
Reply #31 Monday, June 3, 2013 5:00 PM
Unfortunately, not all Windows apps. CS5 and up won't without problems. One should research that with respect to specific, needed or loved apps.
You can check them out here: http://appdb.winehq.org/
(Thanks to Hankers for the link).
Reply #32 Monday, June 3, 2013 6:01 PM
I use linux on my work computer, but I use a very specialized flavor of it. My laptop isn't meant for gaming, or high powered cpu endeavors. I use it for data analysis / spreadsheets among other things on the fly.
However for my home PC, I don't even dual boot, Win7 all the way for now.
Reply #33 Monday, June 3, 2013 6:09 PM
So looking at the replies can one summarize that although not the equal to Windows, Linux under certain conditions could be used by some folks on their desktop PC and satisfy their needs?
In other words is it becoming closer to being an alternative OS vs Windows and Apple on the desktop PC?
Reply #34 Monday, June 3, 2013 7:31 PM
Well look at this way. Google is selling that $250 dollar laptop. It runs Linux. Sells are good. People mostly just want a computer to browse the net, email, word processor, spreadsheets, and listen to music.
Reply #35 Tuesday, June 4, 2013 1:52 AM
Well look at this way. Google is selling that $250 dollar laptop. It runs Linux. Sells are good. People mostly just want a computer to browse the net, email, word processor, spreadsheets, and listen to music.
typical Kona statement. it sells actually even worse than the SurfaceRT.
http://www.zdnet.com/first-real-world-usage-figures-suggest-chromebooks-are-struggling-7000014102/
the Chromebook is running ChromeOS though. while it has a Linux kernel, it is something completely different than the desktop Linux distros the original post was about.
and lets not forget:
https://forums.stardock.com/433659/get;3248307
and:
http://kona0197.wordpress.com/2011/10/10/linux-the-reasons-why-it-will-never-work-for-me/
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Reply #37 Tuesday, June 4, 2013 3:32 AM
There are quite a few distro's that can easily serve as an out of the box mom&pop OS. Netrunner, Zorin, Mageia 3. The latter is spectacularly easy to install and offers the option to choose between KDE/Gnome /Custom during setup. It comes with Firefox installed and runs smoothly.
If all you do is surf, social network, and a bit of accounting etc it is fine and a great buy for the price of 0$ and can more then adequately replace Windows.
As others have quite rightly pointed out w8=w7 with another UI. Reworking w8 to make it look and behave like w7 is pretty pointless since w7 works fine and will continue to do so for ages.
So it just comes down to a matter of taste. If you like the hideous w8 UI install that and leave it alone. If you do have good taste and you find w8 UI hideous leave w8 be and continue with w7.
Reply #38 Tuesday, June 4, 2013 9:00 AM
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Reply #39 Tuesday, June 4, 2013 9:27 AM
Moshi do you not pay attention? I use Windows 7. I have since this new machine was built. And yes, linux will not work on a day to day basis for me, but I don't like the way we talk about it around here when you all don't have all of the facts.
Reply #40 Tuesday, June 4, 2013 9:45 AM
Honestly? This is all a rather sterile discussion since WB is not usable on Linux...and I for one find it hard to live w/o WB.
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Reply #21 Friday, May 31, 2013 12:21 PM
Good info, Doc. Super easy too.
Everything is easy for you smart, intellignent people.........oh wait, you are a redneck, how on earth did you figure it out?