A public apology to Frogboy
Wednesday, August 28, 2002 by Koasati | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Brad, it all started on the "old" skinz message board.......... I was new to the skinning world, and some of the statements made by you, were misinterpreted by me. I decided you were a jerk.
Then you started WC, and the titles of lords, ladies, and citizens, confirmed my suspicion, (because I was already biased) and I wanted nothing to do with WC.
As time passed DavidK (who always told me you were a "nice guy") convinced me to start visiting the WC message board........and after a while I signed up.
I began to see that maybe I was wrong about you, that although, we had some differences of opinion, that maybe you were not the ogre you are said to be.
Then BruB started that thread at Skinbase, about why Stardock was hated so much, and even though I resisted at first, I added my 2 cents........... I should have left my feelings out of that post, but I didn't.
Your replies in that thread were very calm, at least until people really started bashing you.
It became more and more apparent, that it doesn't matter what you say, some folks don't 'hear' you. You stated over and over that the people "required to contribute" to WC to avoid the download cap amounted to 0.1% of the visitors.
I have watched people bitch and moan about being required to "pay" to use the site, and totally ignore the other ways one can contribute.
What I'm getting at is this............ I'm sorry for my misguided opinion of you. You have brought us some of the best software for skinners, I don't use most of it, but that's not because it's not good............ and so what if your making money doing it. (I've never had a problem with that)
I would like to say more, but I'm really not good at putting my thoughts into text. So I will end this post.......
Brad, please accept my apology.
Then you started WC, and the titles of lords, ladies, and citizens, confirmed my suspicion, (because I was already biased) and I wanted nothing to do with WC.
As time passed DavidK (who always told me you were a "nice guy") convinced me to start visiting the WC message board........and after a while I signed up.
I began to see that maybe I was wrong about you, that although, we had some differences of opinion, that maybe you were not the ogre you are said to be.
Then BruB started that thread at Skinbase, about why Stardock was hated so much, and even though I resisted at first, I added my 2 cents........... I should have left my feelings out of that post, but I didn't.
Your replies in that thread were very calm, at least until people really started bashing you.
It became more and more apparent, that it doesn't matter what you say, some folks don't 'hear' you. You stated over and over that the people "required to contribute" to WC to avoid the download cap amounted to 0.1% of the visitors.
I have watched people bitch and moan about being required to "pay" to use the site, and totally ignore the other ways one can contribute.
What I'm getting at is this............ I'm sorry for my misguided opinion of you. You have brought us some of the best software for skinners, I don't use most of it, but that's not because it's not good............ and so what if your making money doing it. (I've never had a problem with that)
I would like to say more, but I'm really not good at putting my thoughts into text. So I will end this post.......
Brad, please accept my apology.
treetog
Reply #2 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 10:08 AM
Reply #2 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 10:08 AM
Boy! A guy must to have the guts to write this, I allways respected you, Koasati, but from now on, my respect is even bigger.
feline
Reply #3 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 10:32 AM
Reply #3 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 10:32 AM
as treetog says, that took real guts!
feline respects that
feline respects that
jebland
Reply #4 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 10:55 AM
Reply #4 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 10:55 AM
I really appreciate seeing that post by Kaosati. That took courage. I am always saddened by the attacks on Stardock and Frogboy. I'm not one of the "Stardock Mafia" or even one of the "in crowd" (actually I wouldn't even qualify as a skinner)but I consider Stardock to be the best thing that ever happened to the Windows desktop. I have been a hopeless addict of desktop customization since 1989 when I found a program that would give you 256 color choices in DOS 3, and when I found Windowblinds, I thought I had died and gone to heaven. I have been at Wincustomize since the day it went online and have seen a lot of cruel things said on this message board. I sincerely hope we can become kinder to people.
Alexandrie
Reply #5 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:05 AM
Reply #5 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:05 AM
thumbs up my dear Koasati! It's because kind of people like you Wincustomize is a great place to stay!
Doreen
Reply #6 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:15 AM
Reply #6 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 11:15 AM
oh mushy stuff! 
Bro you know Brad is gonna make ya sweat for two days on this right? hehe
Doreen thinks it is nice to see a man speak his heart and aplogize like that very neat bro (though next week you all know we will all beat up Brad again cuz it's just so much fun to beat him up!)
Bro you know Brad is gonna make ya sweat for two days on this right? hehe
Doreen thinks it is nice to see a man speak his heart and aplogize like that very neat bro (though next week you all know we will all beat up Brad again cuz it's just so much fun to beat him up!)
Frogboy
Reply #10 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 1:14 PM
Reply #10 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 1:14 PM
Thanks Koasati,
But you really have nothing to apologize for. You've been a true contributor to the community for years and years. Heck, your access here is at Journeyman which says a lot (for one thing it means anything you uploaded bypasses moderation and goes directly into the database, there are probably only a couple dozen people with that access out of the 10 million who visit each year with that access).
Your post on Skinbase wasn't rude or mean. You gave your opinion as you saw it.
The important thing is that it really shows how important perception is. Each day we do things that can be interpreted in different ways by different people.
I think your initial view of the access system is a good example. From one point of view, having different access systems reeks of elitism. From another point of view it's a godo way of rewarding people who contribute while making the site easier to run (i.e. your access level means that your stuff doesn't have to be moderated which saves moderators times and at the same time gives you more freedom to update things and not have to worry about it taking days to show up).
But it's all in perception. What I've had to slowly learn over the years is to become aware of how important percpetion is. Not every deed will be interepreted as it was intended. As an engineer, I've been slow to grasp that. We all make interepretations based on the data available to us. Since I'm here at Stardock, I know that the actions fo the company are based on a collaboration involving dozens of people. But since I post the most, other people will see it and give me undue credit/blame (i.e. some people think I code WindowBlinds for instance and another person will think that every rule on WinCustomize was decided by me - for instance, I was against having the honorific "lord").
Anyway, to make a long story shorter, thanks for your kind post. You didn't say anything wrong. You stated things that many people believe and there is nothing wrong with that because at least you had the courage and principles to write what you believed to be true and listen to both sides of such a discussion. It's people like you that make skinning worth it in the first place.
But you really have nothing to apologize for. You've been a true contributor to the community for years and years. Heck, your access here is at Journeyman which says a lot (for one thing it means anything you uploaded bypasses moderation and goes directly into the database, there are probably only a couple dozen people with that access out of the 10 million who visit each year with that access).
Your post on Skinbase wasn't rude or mean. You gave your opinion as you saw it.
The important thing is that it really shows how important perception is. Each day we do things that can be interpreted in different ways by different people.
I think your initial view of the access system is a good example. From one point of view, having different access systems reeks of elitism. From another point of view it's a godo way of rewarding people who contribute while making the site easier to run (i.e. your access level means that your stuff doesn't have to be moderated which saves moderators times and at the same time gives you more freedom to update things and not have to worry about it taking days to show up).
But it's all in perception. What I've had to slowly learn over the years is to become aware of how important percpetion is. Not every deed will be interepreted as it was intended. As an engineer, I've been slow to grasp that. We all make interepretations based on the data available to us. Since I'm here at Stardock, I know that the actions fo the company are based on a collaboration involving dozens of people. But since I post the most, other people will see it and give me undue credit/blame (i.e. some people think I code WindowBlinds for instance and another person will think that every rule on WinCustomize was decided by me - for instance, I was against having the honorific "lord").
Anyway, to make a long story shorter, thanks for your kind post. You didn't say anything wrong. You stated things that many people believe and there is nothing wrong with that because at least you had the courage and principles to write what you believed to be true and listen to both sides of such a discussion. It's people like you that make skinning worth it in the first place.
Koasati
Reply #11 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 4:30 PM
Reply #11 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 4:30 PM
Thank you Brad, .....Thank you all!
Koasati feels better now..........
Koasati feels better now..........
Mitsuru
Reply #13 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 6:37 PM
Reply #13 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 6:37 PM
As a 50 yr old retired Marine newcomer here, I salute the both of you in the manner you both handled this. Unfortunately there are not many people who will own up to a mistake, as you did (Koasati)and there aren't many people who can accept an apology as gratious as you (Frogboy).
Im impressed!!!!!!!!
Mitsuru
Im impressed!!!!!!!!
Mitsuru
Mitsuru
Reply #14 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 6:40 PM
Reply #14 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 6:40 PM
With that said, where does a newcomer go to learn how to perform the magic you do?
joetheblow
Reply #15 Thursday, August 29, 2002 2:51 AM
Reply #15 Thursday, August 29, 2002 2:51 AM
join us Mitsuru... learn how to use the force!!
Wow, with all the studing I'm doing, I miss allot on the message board. Can't wait until Saturday when my Finals are over. I will be messaging and uploading like crazy.
Oh and Koasati, that was a very strong statement you made about yourself here for the world to see. Apologizing is hard. Very respectful things seem to happen here at WinCustomize.
Wow, with all the studing I'm doing, I miss allot on the message board. Can't wait until Saturday when my Finals are over. I will be messaging and uploading like crazy.
Oh and Koasati, that was a very strong statement you made about yourself here for the world to see. Apologizing is hard. Very respectful things seem to happen here at WinCustomize.
craeonics
Reply #16 Thursday, August 29, 2002 5:00 AM
Reply #16 Thursday, August 29, 2002 5:00 AM
Koa, you suck up! Have you been lurking that peace pipe again?
craeonics hands Koa a stick
Here, now go squash that frog!
craeonics hands Koa a stick
Here, now go squash that frog!
UBoB
Reply #17 Thursday, August 29, 2002 8:11 AM
Reply #17 Thursday, August 29, 2002 8:11 AM
- 'Wow, with all the studing I'm doing,...'
joetheblow, I take it you meant 'studying'. 'studing' is a completely different thing. And it's a lot more fun!!
joetheblow, I take it you meant 'studying'. 'studing' is a completely different thing. And it's a lot more fun!!
Jafo
Reply #18 Thursday, August 29, 2002 9:07 AM
Reply #18 Thursday, August 29, 2002 9:07 AM
motion...that'd probably be 'studding'...if there was a present participle of a verb to 'stud'....or is that transitive and intransitive?....heck, I don't know....all I know is I need a beer... 
MadIce
Reply #19 Thursday, August 29, 2002 12:09 PM
Reply #19 Thursday, August 29, 2002 12:09 PM
Bakerstreet visiting us again, Koasati back in full force... This site is getting better and better all the time.
I know you have contributed a lot to this community, Koasati. Just like treetog it means that I respect you even more than before.
I know you have contributed a lot to this community, Koasati. Just like treetog it means that I respect you even more than before.
Bangkokboy
Reply #20 Thursday, August 29, 2002 1:52 PM
Reply #20 Thursday, August 29, 2002 1:52 PM
It's hot as h where I am, and all the radiated warmth emerging from this thread is killing me!
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Reply #1 Wednesday, August 28, 2002 10:05 AM
Seriously though it takes a big man to apologise.
Not saying you're fat or anything.
erm...
pjpowell looks for a shovel to get himself out of this hole
pjpowell only sees a hammer and decides to knock himself out instead.
CLONK!!!! .........