I hate to say this...
Saturday, August 24, 2002 by Boza | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I think it's a dumb thing to demand money for this stuff...
It's nasty!
Well.. I think a lot of the artist have bought some stardock stuff... so they don't really care. But those who have not! Those who have sent wallpapers and stuff and now have to pay for it!!!
without 'em, you'd be nothing! So keep it as it is, don't make any restrictions... Perhaps one restriction... (wallpapers:) You have to upload a wallpaper, get it confirmed by some artists <-- so this server won't be filled with crap!), for every 20 downloads of wallpapers you make...
else... I'm out'a here!
It's nasty!
Well.. I think a lot of the artist have bought some stardock stuff... so they don't really care. But those who have not! Those who have sent wallpapers and stuff and now have to pay for it!!!
without 'em, you'd be nothing! So keep it as it is, don't make any restrictions... Perhaps one restriction... (wallpapers:) You have to upload a wallpaper, get it confirmed by some artists <-- so this server won't be filled with crap!), for every 20 downloads of wallpapers you make...
else... I'm out'a here!
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mgorbach
Reply #22 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:30 PM
Reply #22 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:30 PM
Il back up boza here, it is not right to start charging for something no one has ever charged for before. I think wincusto could survive on stardock's money (or grant or whatever) and donations from those inclined to do so. But forcing people to pay is just not right, not for skinning, please stardock dont turn skinning into a commercial buisness! I have contributed to wincusto, i own objectdesktop, and i havent even hit the 100mb limit yet, and yet i am very angry at stardock for doing this, even though they are a wonderful company (they make awesome software, like windowsfx!) I think in a way they are destorying the very thing that feeds them, the huge and FREE skinning community. I would much rather have wincusto be a whole lot smaller than have to pay for it. And for those people that wont help code the site without being payed, leave! The skinning community doesent need you, if you dont value it enough to work for free. Skinning is a hobby not a buisness!
kith
Reply #23 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:33 PM
Reply #23 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:33 PM
The entire net was a hobby before '99. Then what happened...
mgorbach
Reply #24 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:35 PM
Reply #24 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:35 PM
Sites couldent survive after 1999 (some of them). But for skinning, it should remain free because sites can survive, look at all the great FREE webistes that work just fine. If stardock keeps doing this to skinning, we will soon be paying for acess to every site and still be bombarded with adds! Shame on starodck, cant they see they are biting the hand that feeds them?
kith
Reply #25 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:45 PM
Reply #25 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:45 PM
The hands that feed them don't have download limits!
pjpowell
Reply #26 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:49 PM
Reply #26 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:49 PM
Sites cannot survive without some kind of funding. It's a fact of life. Stardock choose not to make youpjpowell and all the OD subscribers subsidise freeloaders. I see nothing wrong with that. The money from wincusto subscriptions does not go into Stardocks pockets but is ploughed back into making this site faster and better. It is precisely for this reason that Wincustomize doesn't have adverts, because the revenue from subscribers means they don't have to use them. Add to this the fact that those who have already contributed don't need to pay to subscribe and you really have absolutely no case. Those who love skinning and are in it for the fun will be fine because they will have contributed already. When you take into account the subscription price ($19.95 for 2 years at the moment) it blows your whole argument out of the water. Then consider that if you choose to subscribe you get the skinbrowser, exclusive skins (not yet available but probably due soon) into the bargain and it buries your argument 6 feet under.
Boza
Reply #27 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:52 PM
Reply #27 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:52 PM
O thank God someone could put it the way I was supposed to! 
Thanks mgorbach! What you said is exactly what I mean!
I hope this site remains free
Thanks mgorbach! What you said is exactly what I mean!
I hope this site remains free
Chris
Reply #28 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:53 PM
Reply #28 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:53 PM
How dow you defined "fine" when it comes to free websites? Downtime? crashes? bandwidth exceeded?, disappearing for days/weeks/months on end as they try to determine whether its worth it to continue or not? Constantly scrambling to find the cheapest colocation facility/deal they can wrangle for that particular quarter?
Boza
Reply #29 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:55 PM
Reply #29 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:55 PM
Ok pjpowell. I heard you. But I still think I got a point
joetheblow
Reply #30 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:58 PM
Reply #30 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:58 PM
what are those "free" web ste that your talking about??? deviant art has pop ups... and asks for money to if you haven't noticed.... and the coders who leave means the site will deteriat and won't have as many people... and for those who DO pay get far less of a site then it is now
I really understand these arguments, but if your going to say stuff like this you HAVE to back it up with real data and examples. If you mention Winamp notice that most of there stuff is between 25 and 657 kb!!! not between 12kb ans 10mb!!! or a image intense site. or a multi user upload database... I could go on... but if your going to mention sites like uproar or deviant art, winamp, deskmod or others be aware of the content on there sites, the amount, the traffic they get and other factors including having clientel to keep happy
it is a 2 wat street and the reason why so many people here get upset is because people who post stuff like this do not understand the other way of the street.
Oh my precious stuff!!! all gone!! I downloaded so many MB of stuff!! and now its all gone. remember people back up your hard drive!
I really understand these arguments, but if your going to say stuff like this you HAVE to back it up with real data and examples. If you mention Winamp notice that most of there stuff is between 25 and 657 kb!!! not between 12kb ans 10mb!!! or a image intense site. or a multi user upload database... I could go on... but if your going to mention sites like uproar or deviant art, winamp, deskmod or others be aware of the content on there sites, the amount, the traffic they get and other factors including having clientel to keep happy
it is a 2 wat street and the reason why so many people here get upset is because people who post stuff like this do not understand the other way of the street.
Oh my precious stuff!!! all gone!! I downloaded so many MB of stuff!! and now its all gone. remember people back up your hard drive!
pjpowell
Reply #31 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:00 PM
Reply #31 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:00 PM
The long and short of it is that the site is free for people who contribute. It is not free for those who just want to freeload off other peoples hard work.
mgorbach
Reply #32 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:11 PM
Reply #32 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:11 PM
'Exclusive skins' are probably even worse than making wincustomize 'for pay', even if i had the talent to do something that good, i would never do an 'exclusive skin' because that is just wrong. Also, someone elses argument was that all people who like skinning should contribute, that would be nice but not everyone are artists! I would much rather not have every person on wincustomize contributing, there would be too much crappy skins! I have been 'with' skinning for probably like 4 years now (i started with nextstart and skinz.org) and i havent contributed much (even though im embarassed aobut that) becasue im just no artist. I do however love the skinning community and would gladly donate to wincustomize if they didn't 'force' me to do so. So many things exist for free on the net, look at linux, opensorce software, etc. Many of these sites work on donations and i think thats a great idea, they are diffinately worth contributing to. Not everyone has the $$ to pay for skinning, and not everyone can contribute because not everyone is an artist, why should they be force to pay for skins that the authors did as a hobby and made for EVERYONE to use, not just people with $$ to spend on wincusto.
bakerstreet
Reply #33 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:11 PM
Reply #33 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:11 PM
mgorbach has no clue, there's never been a free site that could pay for itself. the idea itself is an oxymoron. Nice stuff there btw, 'skinner', the community appreciates all that cut-and-paste of stolen graphics.
Boza: You read another inane post that you agreed with, and without even looking into it vainly started another one of your own. You ended it with "else... I'm out'a here!", and frankly I'm a bit disappointed.
See, the thing is, there are a lot of kind, good-natured people here that care about those more ignorant than themselves. Me, I'm not one of them. I'm a snotty, pig-headed ire-mongerer who doesn't think a thing about writing people off for little or no reason. Welcome to the real world, it's full of people like me. How you fare amongst us, working for us, eating the food we serve you, standing before us in court, will be determined by how much you think before you act. Make a suggestion like the one you made above at a fast food restaurant... and you'll be eating what the cook coughed up. I bet he'll just be crushed you don't like him, too.
I would suggest you not soil your nest here, you'd not like it anywhere else. BTW, if you can't find a way to keep me from downloading your work, let me know, I'll humbly comply with your wishes.
I have been waaaaay too nice lately.
Boza: You read another inane post that you agreed with, and without even looking into it vainly started another one of your own. You ended it with "else... I'm out'a here!", and frankly I'm a bit disappointed.
See, the thing is, there are a lot of kind, good-natured people here that care about those more ignorant than themselves. Me, I'm not one of them. I'm a snotty, pig-headed ire-mongerer who doesn't think a thing about writing people off for little or no reason. Welcome to the real world, it's full of people like me. How you fare amongst us, working for us, eating the food we serve you, standing before us in court, will be determined by how much you think before you act. Make a suggestion like the one you made above at a fast food restaurant... and you'll be eating what the cook coughed up. I bet he'll just be crushed you don't like him, too.
I would suggest you not soil your nest here, you'd not like it anywhere else. BTW, if you can't find a way to keep me from downloading your work, let me know, I'll humbly comply with your wishes.
I have been waaaaay too nice lately.
craeonics
Reply #34 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:11 PM
Reply #34 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:11 PM
What is this 'forcing to pay' argument I see all the time? no-one is forcing anyone to do anything. Or are ya'll terminally addicted to this place?
Duncan Stevenson
Reply #35 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:14 PM
Reply #35 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:14 PM
Perhaps i'm missing the whole point, but i think this site is perfect the way it is. You can trial the site for 100MB, then contribute, buy the products you are skinning(!) and/or pay the fee (of 20$)
When i think about the cost of it, this site must be... no is the best value for money I have ever seen, anywhere!!! I mean, what else that's anywhere nearly as good as wincustomize can you get for 83cents per month!?!
Just another meaningless thought brought to you in whole by Duncan Stevenson! ( sorry, i was in america in april and *had* to do one of those totaly cheesy things that you see on tv! lol!)
When i think about the cost of it, this site must be... no is the best value for money I have ever seen, anywhere!!! I mean, what else that's anywhere nearly as good as wincustomize can you get for 83cents per month!?!
Just another meaningless thought brought to you in whole by Duncan Stevenson! ( sorry, i was in america in april and *had* to do one of those totaly cheesy things that you see on tv! lol!)
joetheblow
Reply #36 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:16 PM
Reply #36 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:16 PM
I just read my post and I might have sounded confusing... but the bottom line is that if your a skinner or make comments, or help on the message board with other lost skinners (like me) or any thing possitive to the site then you get unlimited downloads.
when you do no comment EVER or help any skinner get feed back (skinner love feed back) or NEVER help others on the mesage board or NEVER comment on news reports or NEVER submit a news report then you get 100mb for free.
In all honesty, is something wrong in helping out fellow skinners with helpful comments? or anwser a question? or post news on the message board now and then? I have really never see either of you guys until you found out that you can not upload more than 100mb.... do you see why so many skinners get mad and other people who comment and help in other ways OTHER than money get mad?
I hope the next time someone posts they have evedence and facts or some kind of data to back up what they are saying. If we can find out what your seeing then maybe we can have a real discusion about the subject.
Just saying "why isn't it free any more" is just not good enough. Please give examples, related data or some kind of fact other then nestalga of the past and the pre-internet bubble.
I am going to reall miss posting here, but I'll be back (hopefully in a week). And I hope I can HELP other skinners with there work by COMMENTING and other things that will help.
later......
(PLAESE try to read other posts like this and see why this is a clear cut subject and it desirves a clear cut argument if you are going to be against it. Looking forward to your research)
when you do no comment EVER or help any skinner get feed back (skinner love feed back) or NEVER help others on the mesage board or NEVER comment on news reports or NEVER submit a news report then you get 100mb for free.
In all honesty, is something wrong in helping out fellow skinners with helpful comments? or anwser a question? or post news on the message board now and then? I have really never see either of you guys until you found out that you can not upload more than 100mb.... do you see why so many skinners get mad and other people who comment and help in other ways OTHER than money get mad?
I hope the next time someone posts they have evedence and facts or some kind of data to back up what they are saying. If we can find out what your seeing then maybe we can have a real discusion about the subject.
Just saying "why isn't it free any more" is just not good enough. Please give examples, related data or some kind of fact other then nestalga of the past and the pre-internet bubble.
I am going to reall miss posting here, but I'll be back (hopefully in a week). And I hope I can HELP other skinners with there work by COMMENTING and other things that will help.
later......
(PLAESE try to read other posts like this and see why this is a clear cut subject and it desirves a clear cut argument if you are going to be against it. Looking forward to your research)
mgorbach
Reply #37 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:20 PM
Reply #37 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:20 PM
Is there anyone left who still likes to do skinning for free whos against commercializing it? It was a sad day when i saw wincustomize slowly start charging people for things, i guess that skinning as it was a 2 or 3 years ago is over, soon there will be no more good free skins, stardock, while it is a wonderful wonderful software company, should never have been allowed to start a skin site, i actually thought this might happen, but then i though stardock wouldent do that, they wouldent charge for acess to other people's work, i guess they did. Didn't realize they would go down to a low level like this, starodck should pay for wincustomize because THEY benefit from it, without the skins their products wouldent be work crap.
pjpowell
Reply #38 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:21 PM
Reply #38 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:21 PM
mgorbach: Also, someone elses argument was that all people who like skinning should contribute, that would be nice but not everyone are artists!
Contributing includes purchasing the programs you are downloading skins for. You mention that you are an OD subscriber so therefore you already have unlimited downloads anyway.
Contributing includes purchasing the programs you are downloading skins for. You mention that you are an OD subscriber so therefore you already have unlimited downloads anyway.
kith
Reply #39 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:22 PM
Reply #39 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:22 PM
Exactly PJ! Hey, this site is as almost "Free" as you can get. It takes so little to remove the limitations that it perplexes me how people can be so offended.
People are offended because they can't come here and silently download all they want! Where else in society can you expect to walk in the door and take all you want without any limitations... Church maybe but I can't think of another example. Even the public library holds you back to a few titles a day!
The only reason to come here to download something is to customize your desktop. Most of the library is for Stardock apps. If you have registered your app(s) then there is no downlaod limit. If you have participated and engaged the community in a meaningful way there is no downlaod limit. If you subscribe to this site there is no download limit. If you author works here and are recognized for your efforts there is no downlaod limit. So let's see who is affected by the limit...
1) shareware users who never register
2) Warez users
3) people who have spent very little time on the message board
4) people who have not skinned anything
5) people who could not for whatever reason subscribe to WC
6) and they have downloaded over 100MB of data already
Someone please tell me why everyone who does not fit into those categories above should suffer through slow page loads, ads, pop ups, a reduced library, etc. so a bunch of whiners can freeload here....
Please I want to know
People are offended because they can't come here and silently download all they want! Where else in society can you expect to walk in the door and take all you want without any limitations... Church maybe but I can't think of another example. Even the public library holds you back to a few titles a day!
The only reason to come here to download something is to customize your desktop. Most of the library is for Stardock apps. If you have registered your app(s) then there is no downlaod limit. If you have participated and engaged the community in a meaningful way there is no downlaod limit. If you subscribe to this site there is no download limit. If you author works here and are recognized for your efforts there is no downlaod limit. So let's see who is affected by the limit...
1) shareware users who never register
2) Warez users
3) people who have spent very little time on the message board
4) people who have not skinned anything
5) people who could not for whatever reason subscribe to WC
6) and they have downloaded over 100MB of data already
Someone please tell me why everyone who does not fit into those categories above should suffer through slow page loads, ads, pop ups, a reduced library, etc. so a bunch of whiners can freeload here....
Please I want to know
mgorbach
Reply #40 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:25 PM
Reply #40 Saturday, August 24, 2002 5:25 PM
What about people who love skinning and hang around messageboards of this and other sites but simply have no talent for art? Look at all the freeware on the web! How can you say nothing out there is free, what makes the web diffrent is that many hobbies can work and have communities FOR FREE.
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Reply #21 Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:04 PM