WindowBlinds Lite?
Sunday, August 18, 2002 by Elwin | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Just curiosity more than anything, and I suppose this question should have probably been mailed to Stardock, but anyway... 
Has there ever been thought given to a "lite" version of WB? And when I say lite, I mean a very minimal version of WB. Not a uis1, but a full implementation of WB that ONLY skins the windows themselves. No StartBar, no XP extras, no menus - just the windows themselves.
The reason I ask is simple. For those who use shells, and shell enhancements, there's really no reason for these other parts to be skinned, and no reason to use those resources for something that the user will never see. Whether it's Litestep, Nextstart, Hoverdesk, DX, Objectbar, or any of the many other choices involved, those other parts seem to me to be a waste of resources. I'm not saying that skins should be created just for "WB lite". I see no reason why this possible version shouldn't simply ignore those extra parts.
So, am I missing something obvious in asking this?
Anyone else see any merit in this request?
Or should I just wait for the rocks to start flying?
Has there ever been thought given to a "lite" version of WB? And when I say lite, I mean a very minimal version of WB. Not a uis1, but a full implementation of WB that ONLY skins the windows themselves. No StartBar, no XP extras, no menus - just the windows themselves.
The reason I ask is simple. For those who use shells, and shell enhancements, there's really no reason for these other parts to be skinned, and no reason to use those resources for something that the user will never see. Whether it's Litestep, Nextstart, Hoverdesk, DX, Objectbar, or any of the many other choices involved, those other parts seem to me to be a waste of resources. I'm not saying that skins should be created just for "WB lite". I see no reason why this possible version shouldn't simply ignore those extra parts.
So, am I missing something obvious in asking this?
Anyone else see any merit in this request?
Or should I just wait for the rocks to start flying?
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moshi
Reply #2 Sunday, August 18, 2002 8:34 AM
Reply #2 Sunday, August 18, 2002 8:34 AM
i would like that too. but i don´t think this will happen. i´ll wait until Nivenh finishes integrating windows skinning into the Bluebox shell. this will be an extremely lightweight, vector based way to skin windows. until that i´ll stick with Illumination.
btw: a wonderful WindowBlinds skin, that does not care about the Exploder shell has just been released yesterday. so get jealous now
http://www.deskmod.com/?show=showskin&skin_id=14722
btw: a wonderful WindowBlinds skin, that does not care about the Exploder shell has just been released yesterday. so get jealous now
http://www.deskmod.com/?show=showskin&skin_id=14722
craeonics
Reply #3 Sunday, August 18, 2002 9:34 AM
Reply #3 Sunday, August 18, 2002 9:34 AM
craeonics points ears at what moshi's saying
Interesting...
Interesting...
Elwin
Reply #4 Sunday, August 18, 2002 5:32 PM
Reply #4 Sunday, August 18, 2002 5:32 PM
Sorry, Mike.
I guess I didn't explain myself properly. Actually, I've been using WB on and off since v.50, and while OD did release a version called WB Basic (which really wasn't what I meant, but hey - the name sounded enticing ), I guess I was just addressing the issue of whether Stardock had considered a stripped down version. And when I meant skinning the taskbar, it wasn't just XP I was talking about, but Windows in general. Whether it was 95, 98, NT,2K, or XP, if you're using a shell app, there IS no start bar, per se - unless you create something to simulate it.
And Moshi, I agree, and while I'm looking forward to what BlueBox (or Blackbox for Windows, for that matter)has to offer, I'd still like to have one app to handle the windows skinning no matter what program I happen to be using.
And Crae is always looking for a scoop...
I guess I didn't explain myself properly. Actually, I've been using WB on and off since v.50, and while OD did release a version called WB Basic (which really wasn't what I meant, but hey - the name sounded enticing
), I guess I was just addressing the issue of whether Stardock had considered a stripped down version. And when I meant skinning the taskbar, it wasn't just XP I was talking about, but Windows in general. Whether it was 95, 98, NT,2K, or XP, if you're using a shell app, there IS no start bar, per se - unless you create something to simulate it. And Moshi, I agree, and while I'm looking forward to what BlueBox (or Blackbox for Windows, for that matter)has to offer, I'd still like to have one app to handle the windows skinning no matter what program I happen to be using.
And Crae is always looking for a scoop...
incubusmaniac
Reply #5 Monday, August 19, 2002 4:36 PM
Reply #5 Monday, August 19, 2002 4:36 PM
I think there's a setting in WB to not skin the taskbar or menus...
pjpowell
Reply #6 Monday, August 19, 2002 4:54 PM
Reply #6 Monday, August 19, 2002 4:54 PM
There's options in the WB settings to not skin an awful lot (each can be individually set)
Skin Standard Parts:
Standard Window Buttons
Taskbar Buttons
Toolbar Buttons
Advanced Controls:
Menu Borders
Progress Bars
Tabs
Scrollbars
Statusbar
Menu Backgrounds
Skin Standard Parts:
Standard Window Buttons
Taskbar Buttons
Toolbar Buttons
Advanced Controls:
Menu Borders
Progress Bars
Tabs
Scrollbars
Statusbar
Menu Backgrounds
[email protected]
Reply #7 Monday, August 19, 2002 6:27 PM
Reply #7 Monday, August 19, 2002 6:27 PM
There is an OEM version of WindowBlinds, but I'm not at liberty to say more about where it is being used this week (ask again in a week or two).
It's basically buttons, titlebars, borders, and the taskbar. Streamlined UI. And then more fully skinning theme-aware apps on XP as well.
It is also constrained by what skins it can run (depending on the customer needs).
But, that's what it's for. Not meant to be a regular WB where you can pick any skin.
For what you're looking to do, between the options pj posted and the per app settings, you're pretty much covered with what you have right now.
It's basically buttons, titlebars, borders, and the taskbar. Streamlined UI. And then more fully skinning theme-aware apps on XP as well.
It is also constrained by what skins it can run (depending on the customer needs).
But, that's what it's for. Not meant to be a regular WB where you can pick any skin.
For what you're looking to do, between the options pj posted and the per app settings, you're pretty much covered with what you have right now.
moshi
Reply #8 Saturday, August 31, 2002 10:42 AM
Reply #8 Saturday, August 31, 2002 10:42 AM
looks like there will be an alternative soon check the BlueBox site for a wip screenshot. http://bluebox.lokai.net/
check the BlueBox site for a wip screenshot. http://bluebox.lokai.net/
Xymantix
Reply #9 Saturday, August 31, 2002 5:11 PM
Reply #9 Saturday, August 31, 2002 5:11 PM
Actually, I know what you're talking about Elwin. I use NextStart all of the time (well, except for when I'm using DesktopX) and so I don't ever see a taskbar, systray, start menu, etc. I've done a few WB skins in the past (when they were simpler), but now I think I have a mental block on them because there are just so many things to skin it's rather intimidating. I know that realistically it can't be too bad because some people can seemingly whip out one or two WB skins a week.
If there were a "light" version my guess is that I'd use it more often and make more skins for it. Mostly because (as you described it) it would do what I need and no more.
However, the problem is that these skins would only be of use for other "WB light" users. If you wanted a full-blown skin, you'd be unhappy with the light version since it would leave out many things. What would happen next wouldn't be pretty either - you'd get inundated with emails saying your light version was nifty and please make a full version.
If there were a "light" version my guess is that I'd use it more often and make more skins for it. Mostly because (as you described it) it would do what I need and no more.
However, the problem is that these skins would only be of use for other "WB light" users. If you wanted a full-blown skin, you'd be unhappy with the light version since it would leave out many things. What would happen next wouldn't be pretty either - you'd get inundated with emails saying your light version was nifty and please make a full version.
Frogboy
Reply #10 Saturday, August 31, 2002 5:37 PM
Reply #10 Saturday, August 31, 2002 5:37 PM
I'm not sure why you don't just turn off the features you don't want.
Xymantix
Reply #12 Saturday, August 31, 2002 6:23 PM
Reply #12 Saturday, August 31, 2002 6:23 PM
Another way of looking at it would be that die-hard users of Litestep, Nextstart, Hoverdesk, DesktopX, etc. are less likely to make WindowBlinds skins because they'd spend hours and hours skinning something they never use or see.
MadIce
Reply #13 Saturday, August 31, 2002 6:26 PM
Reply #13 Saturday, August 31, 2002 6:26 PM
A skin that is not using a given UI element doesn't use resources for it. So, you are free to make a skin with just the features you like. Alternatively you can also remove features from a skin by editing it.
moshi
Reply #14 Sunday, September 1, 2002 6:54 AM
Reply #14 Sunday, September 1, 2002 6:54 AM
forget i asked about that. just downloaded the pre-alpha version of bwm (released today) and am drooling. still has a way to go, but it wont be that long. it actually works pretty good
so no reason to rip on StarDock, you did NOT disencourage freeware/Open Source developers.
so no reason to rip on StarDock, you did NOT disencourage freeware/Open Source developers.
Elwin
Reply #15 Sunday, September 1, 2002 8:25 AM
Reply #15 Sunday, September 1, 2002 8:25 AM
Well, I guess my way of thinking was similar to idea of "why load Microsoft Word when all you really need or want is Notepad?"
Frogboy
Reply #16 Sunday, September 1, 2002 12:43 PM
Reply #16 Sunday, September 1, 2002 12:43 PM
Here is a fully functional UIS1 skin that I made (the Windows 3.1 skin):
---
[TitlebarSkin]
SkinName = Windows31
SkinAuthor = You
ActiveTitle=Windows31\horizontal.bmp
[Borders]
vertFrame = Windows31\vertical.bmp
HorzFrame = Windows31\horizontal.bmp
TopTopHeight = 24 ;start tiling 24 pixels from top.
TopBotHeight = 24 ;from bottom.
LeftTopHeight = 24 ;from top left (downwards)
LeftBotHeight = 24 ;from bottom left (upwards)
RightTopHeight = 24 ;from top right
RightBotHeight = 24 ;from bottom right
BottomTopHeight = 24 ;from the bottom in on right
BottomBotHeight = 24 ;from the bottom in on the left (yea, these could be named better)
; We want our title bar text to be moved over from the left
; by 30 pixels and there are 4 title bar buttons.
[Caption]
TextLeftShift = 30
ButtonCount = 4
; Our close button
[Button0]
XCoord = 0
YCoord = 3
Align = 0 ; align from left
Action = 0 ; close the window
ButtonImage = Windows31\sys.bmp
Visibility = 0 ; always show it.
[Button1]
XCoord = 19
YCoord = 4
Align = 1 ; align from right
Action = 1 ; maximize the window
ButtonImage = Windows31\max.bmp
Visibility = 20 ; show only if there is a maximize button.
[Button2]
XCoord = 38
YCoord = 4
Align = 1
Action = 2 ; minimize the window
ButtonImage = Windows31\min.bmp
Visibility = 22 ; show only if there is a minimize button
[Button3]
XCoord = 19
YCoord = 4
Align = 1
Action = 1 ; restore the window
ButtonImage = Windows31\restore.bmp
Visibility = 3 ; show only if there is a restore button.
-----
Pretty small.
---
[TitlebarSkin]
SkinName = Windows31
SkinAuthor = You
ActiveTitle=Windows31\horizontal.bmp
[Borders]
vertFrame = Windows31\vertical.bmp
HorzFrame = Windows31\horizontal.bmp
TopTopHeight = 24 ;start tiling 24 pixels from top.
TopBotHeight = 24 ;from bottom.
LeftTopHeight = 24 ;from top left (downwards)
LeftBotHeight = 24 ;from bottom left (upwards)
RightTopHeight = 24 ;from top right
RightBotHeight = 24 ;from bottom right
BottomTopHeight = 24 ;from the bottom in on right
BottomBotHeight = 24 ;from the bottom in on the left (yea, these could be named better)
; We want our title bar text to be moved over from the left
; by 30 pixels and there are 4 title bar buttons.
[Caption]
TextLeftShift = 30
ButtonCount = 4
; Our close button
[Button0]
XCoord = 0
YCoord = 3
Align = 0 ; align from left
Action = 0 ; close the window
ButtonImage = Windows31\sys.bmp
Visibility = 0 ; always show it.
[Button1]
XCoord = 19
YCoord = 4
Align = 1 ; align from right
Action = 1 ; maximize the window
ButtonImage = Windows31\max.bmp
Visibility = 20 ; show only if there is a maximize button.
[Button2]
XCoord = 38
YCoord = 4
Align = 1
Action = 2 ; minimize the window
ButtonImage = Windows31\min.bmp
Visibility = 22 ; show only if there is a minimize button
[Button3]
XCoord = 19
YCoord = 4
Align = 1
Action = 1 ; restore the window
ButtonImage = Windows31\restore.bmp
Visibility = 3 ; show only if there is a restore button.
-----
Pretty small.
moshi
Reply #17 Sunday, September 1, 2002 1:05 PM
Reply #17 Sunday, September 1, 2002 1:05 PM
you are right.
i included something similar (not UIS1 probably, but stripped to the bone) in my Mas Siemple HoverDesk theme. http://www.deskmod.com/core.mod?show=showskin&skin_id=12677 . i saw no point releasing the WindowBlinds skin alone, so it is just a little extra goodie for the people that read the theme description or explore the theme folder. i doubt anyone uses it though
i included something similar (not UIS1 probably, but stripped to the bone) in my Mas Siemple HoverDesk theme. http://www.deskmod.com/core.mod?show=showskin&skin_id=12677 . i saw no point releasing the WindowBlinds skin alone, so it is just a little extra goodie for the people that read the theme description or explore the theme folder. i doubt anyone uses it though
Frogboy
Reply #18 Sunday, September 1, 2002 1:39 PM
Reply #18 Sunday, September 1, 2002 1:39 PM
That was an eFX skin. But yea, other than the title bars/borders a skin author doesn't have to do anything on a WB skin to make it work. It can be as "lite" as you want it.
And check out the size of wblind.dll, it's tiny.
But yea, other than the title bars/borders a skin author doesn't have to do anything on a WB skin to make it work. It can be as "lite" as you want it.And check out the size of wblind.dll, it's tiny.
Jafo
Reply #19 Sunday, September 1, 2002 7:24 PM
Reply #19 Sunday, September 1, 2002 7:24 PM
Moshi....same here with my 'Nijikon Fetchi' LS theme....included a WB skin that is intended to complement the theme, but I didn't bother with the Exploder details, just the 'blinds' themselves...
scratch_pentagon
Reply #20 Monday, September 2, 2002 6:03 PM
Reply #20 Monday, September 2, 2002 6:03 PM
Actually... there was a WB Lite back in the day. It was called WBLiteFX, I believe. That was back before Neil joined up with Stardock. But it's really unimportant, as it's extremely outdated and therefore pretty much useless. If anyone still even has a copy.
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Reply #1 Sunday, August 18, 2002 8:01 AM