paying for a skinning site???
Thursday, July 4, 2002 by Carlitus | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I pay for my internet connection, the electric power, my cellular phone, my web-hosting, the fixed telephone, the object desktop annual, my computer programs (YES, I PAY MY PROGRAMS), and for more ram on my computer 
all things that makes possible my "modern digitall way of life"
There's a movement to make the internet services sites at payment... (the bandwidth, the hosting, the programmers aren't free, of course).
Maybe, WIncustomize will be a payment site: there's subscriptions for more performance, exclusive programs like skinbrowser.
I readed months ago a comment by a wizop: "Wincustomize are created to supply (as possible) the disappearance of SKINZ.ORG"
I need to pay for using WIncustomize?
all things that makes possible my "modern digitall way of life"There's a movement to make the internet services sites at payment... (the bandwidth, the hosting, the programmers aren't free, of course).
Maybe, WIncustomize will be a payment site: there's subscriptions for more performance, exclusive programs like skinbrowser.
I readed months ago a comment by a wizop: "Wincustomize are created to supply (as possible) the disappearance of SKINZ.ORG"
I need to pay for using WIncustomize?
WOM
Reply #2 Thursday, July 4, 2002 1:22 PM
Reply #2 Thursday, July 4, 2002 1:22 PM
I know the day of the free internet is fastly comming to a close. You can see it happening now. More and more sites charging a subcription. In the end, I think this will have a negitave effect. How many sites will one family subcribe to? How much can they budget for? I know nothing in life is free but money only goes so far. If all the skinning sites charge, how many will you be on! 1,2 or all of them. That also goresd for the game sites. How many will you be on? Something to think about.
paxx
Reply #3 Thursday, July 4, 2002 1:51 PM
Reply #3 Thursday, July 4, 2002 1:51 PM
I think it has been shown that subscription only sites don't work. A lot of sites tried it in the glory days of the dotcoms. It failed.
But, Wincustomize is not a pay-only site. All aspects of the site is available to everybody. People who don't contribute are limited to a large number of downloads (100 megs I think). To have unlimited downloads people can pay a subscription, or thay can contribute with their time, leadership, helpfulness, talent, etc. in order to get apprentice level.
But, Wincustomize is not a pay-only site. All aspects of the site is available to everybody. People who don't contribute are limited to a large number of downloads (100 megs I think). To have unlimited downloads people can pay a subscription, or thay can contribute with their time, leadership, helpfulness, talent, etc. in order to get apprentice level.
Frogboy
Reply #4 Thursday, July 4, 2002 2:05 PM
Reply #4 Thursday, July 4, 2002 2:05 PM
Subscription-only sites are doomed. I can't think of a single website on the Internet that I would pay to access at a casual level.
Webmasters who need pay their bills have to look at things from a different angle. They have to ask themselves, "Which users would they want to leave?" rather than trying to get everyone to pay. They have to basically identify users who they can risk having not visit the site. That's because most people (IMO) when confronted with being asked to pay or leave will choose to leave.
So in a skinsite's case, the people you want to approach are those who use the site heavily. The people who download megs and megs of skins, visit nearly every day or more, and are just generally all over the site on a regular basis. These represent a very small percentage of any site, they are the core users.
Then you have to divide that group up into people who you don't want to restrict and those you do. You don't want to put any restrictions on those core users who are helping the site by providing content (either submitting skins, posting on the message boards, or contributing financially in other ways like buying other software from you).
That leaves you with the core users wh visit every day, download tons of stuff, but don't choose to participate in the message boards or make skins and haven't bought software. Those are the users that we target. Those are the users we put restrictions on, we say to them essentially: "This site is very expensive to run, you obviously use it a lot, so we need you to either buy a subscription which lasts for 2 years, register some of the software here, start making skins, or go somewhere else.."
Some people go away, others buy a subscription, others register th esoftware they've been using all those megs of skins on.
But the important thing is that a casual user to the site isn't even aware of any of this. They are totally unaffected.
Webmasters who need pay their bills have to look at things from a different angle. They have to ask themselves, "Which users would they want to leave?" rather than trying to get everyone to pay. They have to basically identify users who they can risk having not visit the site. That's because most people (IMO) when confronted with being asked to pay or leave will choose to leave.
So in a skinsite's case, the people you want to approach are those who use the site heavily. The people who download megs and megs of skins, visit nearly every day or more, and are just generally all over the site on a regular basis. These represent a very small percentage of any site, they are the core users.
Then you have to divide that group up into people who you don't want to restrict and those you do. You don't want to put any restrictions on those core users who are helping the site by providing content (either submitting skins, posting on the message boards, or contributing financially in other ways like buying other software from you).
That leaves you with the core users wh visit every day, download tons of stuff, but don't choose to participate in the message boards or make skins and haven't bought software. Those are the users that we target. Those are the users we put restrictions on, we say to them essentially: "This site is very expensive to run, you obviously use it a lot, so we need you to either buy a subscription which lasts for 2 years, register some of the software here, start making skins, or go somewhere else.."
Some people go away, others buy a subscription, others register th esoftware they've been using all those megs of skins on.
But the important thing is that a casual user to the site isn't even aware of any of this. They are totally unaffected.
migellito
Reply #5 Thursday, July 4, 2002 2:10 PM
Reply #5 Thursday, July 4, 2002 2:10 PM
yep 
...for example carlitus, since you have an od subscription there's no limit on your downloads. the way most sites are going pay these days is to offer special services for paid subscribers. i think this can probably work.
the things which might change this are advertisers waking up to how things really work, and bandwidth costs getting back down to realistic levels. both those could take a while though.
...for example carlitus, since you have an od subscription there's no limit on your downloads. the way most sites are going pay these days is to offer special services for paid subscribers. i think this can probably work.the things which might change this are advertisers waking up to how things really work, and bandwidth costs getting back down to realistic levels. both those could take a while though.
HuronJoe
Reply #6 Thursday, July 4, 2002 2:58 PM
Reply #6 Thursday, July 4, 2002 2:58 PM
I think I fall in to the silent majority. I don't mind paying for a subscription to this site regardless of the fact that I have purchased a number of Object Desktop items. This is my second year of Object Desktop and probably my second responce to a message I've read. I read all most all of them and sooner or later a problem that I've been having is answered. I really wish I could contribute some of the great skins that I've seen but unfortunately I just don't have that kind of talent. I want all of you "skinners" to know that I (and I'm sure many others just like me)really admire your work. 
Carlitus
Reply #7 Thursday, July 4, 2002 3:42 PM
Reply #7 Thursday, July 4, 2002 3:42 PM
the present and the immediate future are being to new capitalism..... but not desired by consumers 
the dotcoms will rentabilize their inversion, and any internet services site (any kind of services) must receive some money if don't wants to remain out...
i don't like this, i pay to all people
it's a personal opinion to moderm times in general, not to Wincustomize
the dotcoms will rentabilize their inversion, and any internet services site (any kind of services) must receive some money if don't wants to remain out...i don't like this, i pay to all people
it's a personal opinion to moderm times in general, not to Wincustomize
WOM
Reply #8 Thursday, July 4, 2002 3:58 PM
Reply #8 Thursday, July 4, 2002 3:58 PM
I hope no one took my post as negitive. I'am not a skinner nor am I a heavy downloader. I talk on the message board. I like this site, the people(for the most part) and the skins(for the most part). As you can tell by the icon, I subscribed. My point being is that I would be very careful with my money in subscribing to to many sites. I would be very pickey.
fearoffours
Reply #9 Thursday, July 4, 2002 4:43 PM
Reply #9 Thursday, July 4, 2002 4:43 PM
HuronJoe, there are many ways to participate in this site/community. There's no need to apologis for what you perceive to be a lack of participation. There's no need to comment on a thread that doesn't interest you, and not everyone enjoys skinning... in fact, imho the most valuable contributors are the people who download, as most skinners are happy to know they're skins aree nbeing used. To be super-appreciated though, all you need do is one extra thing, and thats comment on the skins you enjoy using most.
Jafo
Reply #10 Thursday, July 4, 2002 7:07 PM
Reply #10 Thursday, July 4, 2002 7:07 PM
You 'may' just dismiss me as being biased, but I think that Wincustomize has the best approach to the problems of running-cost recovery of any of the skin sites.
It's a symbiotic relationship....you give, they give, you get, they get......give more, get more.
The only thorn in this utopia was the 'take, take, take, no give' but there's a 'cap' on that now...the 'take, take, take' ceases at 100meg and there's a polite request to 'give' in return for future 'take'....
It's a symbiotic relationship....you give, they give, you get, they get......give more, get more.
The only thorn in this utopia was the 'take, take, take, no give' but there's a 'cap' on that now...the 'take, take, take' ceases at 100meg and there's a polite request to 'give' in return for future 'take'....
HuronJoe
Reply #11 Thursday, July 4, 2002 7:07 PM
Reply #11 Thursday, July 4, 2002 7:07 PM
fearoffours, I will gladly comment on any skins that I use on a regular basis from now on and thanks for the tip. In fact, if I can (I'm not sure if I can comment on skins that I've downloaded some time ago but still use)I will try to let the people know that I use there work. 
WOM
Reply #12 Thursday, July 4, 2002 7:41 PM
Reply #12 Thursday, July 4, 2002 7:41 PM
I wonder which catagory of frogboy's that I fit in! I do rate and I do comment. I try not to be to blunt in my comments. That person does spend a lot of time and energy making what they upload (except Mr. 5 min. wall). Be honest and polite when rating.
migellito
Reply #13 Thursday, July 4, 2002 11:54 PM
Reply #13 Thursday, July 4, 2002 11:54 PM
w.o.m.. i like that last sentence.. honest and polite
excellent!
excellent!
joetheblow
Reply #14 Friday, July 5, 2002 2:26 AM
Reply #14 Friday, July 5, 2002 2:26 AM
I think I can cut and paste this here:
Rant:
I think why soon so many sites will be subscribtion only is because for some reason ad campains for the internet are so lame. We have all seen that ads from something that looks like a warning on your computer to stuff that flashes so much you get a headache. ARE THERE ANY ADVARTIZING COMPANIES WHO KNOW HOW TO DESING ADS??!!!? I am tired of being treated as if I do not have a brain in my head by ads that do nothing more than just sit there. I am tired of Flash ads that the designers think since they are using flash now the will get clicks. I am tired of going to web pages about art and seeing ads that not only do not go with the design of the website but have nothing to do with the web site. Who designs these ads anyway???
end rant
by Citizen joetheblow
-------
Maybe sites would not have to go to a point of subscriptions is the advertising world would stop and think about the designs of their ads and the sites they put them on.
Rant:
I think why soon so many sites will be subscribtion only is because for some reason ad campains for the internet are so lame. We have all seen that ads from something that looks like a warning on your computer to stuff that flashes so much you get a headache. ARE THERE ANY ADVARTIZING COMPANIES WHO KNOW HOW TO DESING ADS??!!!? I am tired of being treated as if I do not have a brain in my head by ads that do nothing more than just sit there. I am tired of Flash ads that the designers think since they are using flash now the will get clicks. I am tired of going to web pages about art and seeing ads that not only do not go with the design of the website but have nothing to do with the web site. Who designs these ads anyway???
end rant
by Citizen joetheblow
-------
Maybe sites would not have to go to a point of subscriptions is the advertising world would stop and think about the designs of their ads and the sites they put them on.
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Reply #1 Thursday, July 4, 2002 1:01 PM
- If there's a lowly price (very lowly), and the advantages are very big, maybe....
if:
- WIncustomize needs to post more different application skins. This site needs this to be the best skinning site
- Discounts on/when purchasing other Stardock products, such IconXP, Object Desktop, their games, other future apps (maybe ObjectDock, a program with success guaranteed)?
The site, in any way, must be at free access, only making this advantages can make success.
A site like this at payment, will disapear surelly