Dot-Com: The Next Generation
Tuesday, May 21, 2002 by Frogboy | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
It's not commonly known but in 1999, Neoplanet tried to acquire WindowBlinds and hire some of the core Stardock staff (myself included). When I visited there, I met a bunch of really nice guys. But what I also saw was excess. People working with budgets that I could only dream of. They had more on-staff graphics designers than we had employees at the time. All creating skins. They had a game room full of games, air hockey, ping pong, etc.
While I was there, they were celebrating their 1 millionth user and handed out special T-shirts celebrating this fact to all 40 of them (more people than work at Stardock even today). I also got one too. Very nice shirts.
They offered a salary that dwarfed what I made at Stardock (and even what I make today) along with what they expected would be millions of dollars in stock options to go there and bring the WindowBlinds team over who would be similarly compensated.
But ultimately it boiled down to this: I couldn't figure out how they were going to generate income to match their expenses, let alone make a profit. They were making less per month than we were despite us having 1/4th the staff and probably 1/20th the expenses. Their model basically, at the time, revolved around trying to get their browser everywhere and sell advertisements in a box that showed up in the bottom right hand corner along with getting people to sponser different parts of it.
I just couldn't see how that would cover those costs since most advertisers on the net back then were other dot-coms not making any money but instead trying to get a huge user base.
The dot-com bubble burst and while Neoplanet still exists, it's a very different company (And probably quite a bit smaller). All those companies funded by ads from dot-coms suddenly lost their income. eFront was one of the more conspicuous casaulties.
The real problem is that the dot-com's really screwed up the Internet (IMO). They created expectations and just can't be lived up to. The Internet was once populated by millions of tiny but imaginative sites that were very rough around the edges but were original. The dot-coms really made a lot of these disappear by doing much what they did except having the benefit of a huge staff behind them. So people got used to professional quality sites that were still free.
Now we're at Dot-Com: The Next Generation.
The first signs of life are the blogs. These are web logs that are slowly growing into many different and interesting things. They're free, they're not quite as slick as the professionaly run dot-coms of old but they are pretty good. They work at trying to keep costs down by being run by volunteers and being almost entirely text.
You also have quasi-professional sites. Sites that are pretty well designed and have considerable bandwidth costs. Slashdot being a good example of this. TheForce.net is another example. The skin sites mostly fall into this category as well.
It's the latter type that is running into significant difficulties now. That's because banner ads still don't pay anything and bandwidth costs are still very high. Some places do offer cheap bandwidth but come across sounding a lot like dot-coms (I wouldn't personally feel comfortable with such a system without having a core nucleus that was on a major provider like Worldcom or Verio or whatever that backups could be kept on).
In this new generation, different sites are trying some different things.
Here are some examples:
TheForce.net
They're part of IGN. One of the last of the true dot-coms in some respects. The site is mainly a Star Wars fan site. It's significantly more popular than WinCustomize is. They've done pretty well by distributing their content around. That is, much of the bandwidth intensive materials are not hosted there but around the net cutting costs dramatically. They also have Smart Advertising (SA). SA is what I think will become increasingly the way to go for sites - make parternships with related products. So you go onto TheForce.net and you see a place selling Star Wars posters. The question is, is TheForce.net breaking even? That would be an interesting question. With all volunteers, relatively low bandwidth requirements and IGN's backing it's tough to say. A recurring theme - volunteerism is key. If you can get the cost of ownersihp down to basically bandwidth you're in good shape. The bad news is that it's a far cry from the days where one could make a decent living running a website.
Kuro5hin.org
I met the owner of Kuro5hin before I had visited the site. We met at a bar in San Fran where there's a cool weekly trivia contest. I always go there with my friend who works at The Register. If you're in SF, you probably know the place I speak of. A bar for techies.
. He was talking about how his site would basically be run by the users. Sort of like a skin site but with articles instead of skins. It's pretty successful though not as popular as WinCustomize is. They have a couple of mechanisms to try to pay the bills. One thing you will notice about them is they've pretty much given up on banner ads. They, like us, have found that only pop-up ads pay anything and that puts the site admins in a situation - do I annoy my users with pop-ups or do I just find a different route? They've taken the latter. And they have some innovative ideas:1) They let people take out ads on their site directly as small box sized text ads. Low bandwidth use, anyone can make them. Text ads may be the next big thing(tm). Here's how they work: Would be advertiser goes onto the site, sees text ad area, agrees to pay $5 set up fee plus $1 for every 10,000 to 20,000 impressions. Advertiser decides how much they are willing to fork over per day for their ad (i.e. up to $2 per day for instance). Ad submitted to admins for approval and voila. On a site like WinCustomize, that could generate $500 to $700 in revenue per ad depending on the circumstances. Note: Kuro5hin charges $3 per thousand impressions. If we could get that on WC, that would definitely help a lot.
2) They too are making use of smart advertising. Small integrated areas of the site where related products are advertised. It would be akin to having special ads for Adobe or 3D Studio or whatever here (before someone suggests this, yes, we've been trying to do this).
3) They have subscriptions though I am not real familiar with how this works (will have to look into this more).
I'll be adding more to this in the coming days. If anyone wants to outline how other websites are paying for their costs, please feel free to add.
Reply #2 Wednesday, May 22, 2002 4:24 AM
"The real problem is that the dot-com's really screwed up the Internet (IMO)."
I never could understand why investors would pump their money into obvious sky castles. More fuel for my antipathy of marketing.
But hey, back on topic: you might want to read this article: http://www.newarchitectmag.com/documents/s=2286/new1017791531820/
Reply #3 Wednesday, May 22, 2002 1:00 PM
Reply #4 Wednesday, May 22, 2002 1:08 PM
It would be like WC, or Devart or whatever, holding ads for washing machine companies and whatnot.
Devarts current system of adverts (Wether profitable or not) is more appealing, as they advertise relevant products, namely graphics progs, and art related stuff.
Personally, I'd be more likely to click on an Adobe ad, than one of these 'Play our Casino game, and win $1 million, plus a Porsche, some hot ladies and a fleet of private jets, blah blah yadda'.
Reply #6 Wednesday, May 22, 2002 3:20 PM
Reply #7 Wednesday, May 22, 2002 3:45 PM
Reply #8 Wednesday, May 22, 2002 4:20 PM
How much would Adobe and Corel pay to have a small text based ad next to every thread about "What do you use to make graphics?" How much would MS or Apple pay to be next to every thread that mentions "Windows"?
Other common topics to think about:
Networks
Hardware (Computer)
Chocolate (They could follow Felin everywhere)
Coffee
Icons
etc.
Particularly with graphics. Here you have people asking "What should I buy?" How much more targetted can you get! You could go to Adobe, Corel, and Macromedia and say "Well your offer is nice but some other graphics company really really wants to be the only one seen on the page."
Reply #9 Wednesday, May 22, 2002 7:40 PM
I'm betting somewhere there's a microwave feeling jilted...

Reply #10 Wednesday, May 22, 2002 7:43 PM

Reply #11 Thursday, May 23, 2002 3:34 AM
Sticking within our niche, if you've poked around on DevArt a bit, you've probably something interesting. Every once in a while I see newsposts there that are obvious advertisements. Targeted towards marketeers and stuff, not completely fitting in with the crowd.
Not sure if these actually are paid ads, but it sure as hell does look that way. Smart move by jarkles. DevArt gets lotads of page views and thus news items get a lot of attention.
Alternatively, check DeskMod's concept: co-branding. Or perhaps the name is different, but what it boils down to is that DeskMod is the official distributor of skins for certain apps, like WinAmp3 and some others. Again, not certain, but I'm sure this is part of its business model.
Reply #12 Thursday, May 23, 2002 8:35 PM
I did not take the job since something better came along. The one good thing the dotcoms did do was make the work place more equitable. Before them the office was more an instrument of torture than anything else. Suits were required in some places and in most others you had to wear a tie if you were a man and "business attire" for women. It truely was like that movie "Office Space". The attitude was more "you should be glad to work for us" rather than "we are glad you are here". In addition restaurants and car dealerships, and other businesses, suddenly learned that the way you dressed did not nessisarily indicate your income. These are some of the great social changes the dotcoms and tech companies acheived. More of an equalization and "casualization" of society. Now with their fall I do see some of the old attitudes comming back... especially the "you should be glad to be here" attitude of employers. It is unfortunately true. With Sept 11 and the fall of the tech companies things are not so good... well back to the old grind.
Ciao
Tulrin

Reply #13 Friday, May 24, 2002 12:55 AM
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"Remembering the internet when the www didn't even exist yet"

Reply #14 Saturday, May 25, 2002 10:26 PM
http://arstechnica.com/etc/subscribe/subscribe-1.html
I wonder how well they're doing with it.
As for text ads, they get between 1% to 3% typically which is really good. People have learend to ignore banner ads because they usually have nothing to do with the site they're on. Thta's why contexgt sensitive text ads are the next step.
If WinCustomize can do text ads at $1 per 1,000 impressions assuming at least 5 million impressions per month that's $5,000. It won't pay the bills but it's a good start. If you can get at least that number in subscriptions per month you're at $10,000 total.
Throw in misc. things and you could actually get this site to pay for itself. Which would be a good thing. Any regular user who hasn't subscribed should consider this - this site exists only so long as WindowBlinds and Object Desktop sell well. Obviously I hope/expect them to do well for a long while, but it would be a much better thing if the site were able to support itself.

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Reply #1 Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:00 AM
Hardware site. Very small staff with lots volunteers. Tons of traffic. They used to use UGO. When UGO failed I think they were pretty close to closing up shop. They have since gone to ads from venders and manufacturers they trust. Last I heard they were doing better that way then they had using UGO to pay most of the bills.
How is The Register doing since Mike Magee left?