I'm pissed

Saturday, May 18, 2002 by davad70 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk

Ok, there are quite a few issues that have been on my mind for a while, and some newer ones that really have me irritated.

1. Why is it that lately this site seems to be disregarding the wishes of skinners more and more often? The majority of skinners, as well as many of the wizops/admins who are actually skinners, want to scrap the rating system. Do the wishes and requests of skinners matter to the people who run this site on this issue? Apparently not. I’ve also not come across a skinner who thinks that the libraries should be sorted by the date they were updated, but now they are. It was decided a ways back that the fair thing to do was to sort the libraries by create date. Now with the launch of WC2, we are back to sorting libraries by date of update. Why? Because Frogboy wants it that way. It doesn’t matter that most of the skinners want it another way. Frogboy wants…Frogboy gets.

2. We hear quite a lot about the heavy burden that Wincustomize has placed upon Stardock. We also hear quite a bit about how popular WC has become in the past year. I’m curious as to why this site has become so popular. Personally I think it’s popularity is mostly due to the fact that people can get skins from some of the best skinners in the world here, who give their skins freely. We also hear a lot about the fact that Wc needs to be able to support itself, and not be funded directly by Stardock. Yet it seems that Stardock will always be in control of this site and that it will never truly be a “community site”. So I ask, why shouldn’t Stardock pay for this site? It seems to me that this site is the greatest marketing tool that Stardock has. I would think that people buy Windowblinds and the other programs to be able to use the skins that they see on this site. So with the advent of the subscriber program what benefits do skinners get? Ummm, we get unlimited downloads just as we always have before. BTW, that’s the same benefit that OD (which I am also) users get also. So, the fact that I’ve submitted 15 skins since the first of the year gets me nothing. My contribution is apparently not better than Joe Blow downloader who paid $20. Joe Blow gets the skin browser, “exclusive suites”, etc. I get nothing but the privilege of downloading my skins as much as I want. J

3. Now to the issue that’s really got me pissed off to the degree that I finally am fed up. Anyone remember the GUI Olympics? Anyone remember the prizes that Frogboy stated that Honorable mention winners would receive? Let me refresh your memory. Anyone who picked up an honorable mention will get a free copy of Object Desktop (or a renewal), an Object Desktop sweat shirt, a T-shirt, a LWNinja T-shirt and some other goodies. Those who won multiple honorable mentions will be given additional Object Desktop renewals. posted by Lord Frogboy - 4/2/2002 1:07:58 PM. Well, I won an honorable mention and didn’t receive anything until I contacted them. They just forgot about me. That was no big deal to me, sometimes thing like that happen. So I got an email saying that my OD subscription was renewed and it was. Great right? Well, I waited about 2 weeks to get the other goodies that I had coming. Still didn’t get them, so I write back to ask when I would be getting all the other stuff. Basically I was told that they changed their mind and were not sending out any of the actual physical prizes. I then contacted some other skinners who won honorable mentions to see if they got their prizes. They all got their OD renewals, but no one got any of the other prizes for honorable mention prizes. After emailing Brad back he tells me that I should have gotten those other prizes (yes, I know that), and that he’ll check with the person who sent out the prizes to see whats going on. This is the same person that told me that there weren’t going to be any physical prizes given out for honorable mentions. Sounds very odd to me.

So….am I overreacting, or do I have a right to be a tad pissed?
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CRUMBUT
Reply #61 Sunday, May 19, 2002 3:10 PM
yeah *S*
hehe
pjpowell
Reply #62 Sunday, May 19, 2002 4:24 PM
The problem is that there are two conflicting pieces of text regarding the ratings on GUIOlympics. There is :

http://www.guiolympics.com/about.asp

which contains:

"There will also be two honorable mention winners in which they will receive a non cash prize (Object Desktop Sweatshirt, T-Shirt, Object Desktop Subscription/Renewal, Lightweight Ninja T-Shirt or other merchandise.)"

and:

http://www.guiolympics.com/news_comments_full.asp?NewsID=66

which contains:

"Anyone who picked up an honorable mention will get a free copy of Object Desktop (or a renewal), an Object Desktop sweat shirt, a T-shirt, a LWNinja T-shirt and some other goodies."

I always took that to be a typing mistake by Brad when he typed up the second one.

The person sending out the prizes would most likely have gone by what is said in the about page rather than what Brad said in one of the news items.

Brad has stated he will sort it out personally. I have found him to be a man of his word and believe that he will sort it out. Can this be dropped now? It's not a great conspiracy. It's a result of (most probably) a hastily typed news item.

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virophile
Reply #63 Sunday, May 19, 2002 5:00 PM
hmmm, Hi, I love you guys

virophile gives everyone some lovin
adni18
Reply #64 Sunday, May 19, 2002 5:11 PM
I love you too virophile Because you bring us a wonderful present, your love!
MarkMcQ
Reply #65 Sunday, May 19, 2002 7:57 PM
There's a lot of love in this room, and not the nekkid kind.
Can you feel it?




Oh, and just to stay with the topic of the thread, I personally find ratings useless. I don't care wether people like my work or not. I don't even know how many D/L's I get (On any skins sites in general), simply because it doesn't matter to me.
I make skins because I enjoy graphics work, and I upload them for other people to use them if they want.

But that's just my opinion on the ratings system. (On all skinning sites, not just this one)

Gregory Nashif
Reply #66 Sunday, May 19, 2002 9:41 PM
I did not nor had any intention of seeming impatient, but I have had this issue with logon Studio for a while now, since I downloaded the new one which has been a couple weeks, it does not seem to work. I had no problems with the old one. The point I was trying to make, is I had several messages directed to the tech staff at Stardock to help with a few issues that I have, it is an enoromous program, and is done well, the amount of good things in this OD program is excellent and far outweighs the bad things. But I need to tell you the little things prevent me from using the creative part of this program. So when I need help, with specifics, I go to this message board, then I try the newsgroups, when that does not work, I email support. So Far I have had this program since February and have received only one reply on one issue, and that took 2 weeks, the only positive response I receive is from a sales rep who is really knowledgeable, and in the one reply I received it was very rude and did not help at all....

As a fairly new person on WC I want to ask who is this Frogboy person and what does he directly or indirectly have to do with stardock. Anyway I apologize for being impatient and accept the open rebuke above
davad70
Reply #67 Sunday, May 19, 2002 9:50 PM
Greg...check the other post about logons, I just posted somethign there that might help you.
Jafo
Reply #68 Sunday, May 19, 2002 10:08 PM
As a fairly new person on WC I want to ask who is this Frogboy person and what does he directly or indirectly have to do with stardock

Actually, no-one really knows, but I suspect a guy called 'Brad' may pop in and elucidate....[but tell him to clean it up afterwards]...
Gregory Nashif
Reply #69 Sunday, May 19, 2002 10:13 PM
I have been reading with much thought this entire thread including my own take just above, which really does not apply to what has been happening.

For the record, I have no problems really with paying anything, and I fully understand how hard and difficult it is to maintain a site and raise a family I do not know if this Frogboy guy supports his family from this site. If he does than we as users need to support him.

Look at how many dot com companies have gone bankrupt. To do a WC sight like this one with so many skins, each one has a zoom, and a comment page, a download etc. it gets expensive, and it must run on its own.

I will tell you exactly why wincustomize is so popular, it is because it is tremendously interactive and user friendly. the more interactive a site is, the more people are attracted to it. I enjoy reading the news, and sharing my opinions, most sites of this kind you have no say in what is going on.

There are two types of users here at WC. The Skinners, and people like myself who are just users, most of you are both. I think the users need to help pay a fee, maybe instead of 20.00 a year, maybe 3.50 per month, I think the skinners need to support this as well and maybe they should pay a fee for uploading to this site, just like a "saturday marketplace" that sells space for us to sell goods. All I know is this, every good site that I belong to that is successful and special charges. I only belong to a couple it costs me 20.00 a month for everything that I use, and it is all beneficial to me as a person.

I think WC is one of the best looking and interactive sites I have ever seen, it done splendidly well, and the person who puts this together must really do this out of a kind a pure heart, and because he loves it so much....don't give up doing what you love, you need to do what you can to keep this site alive, and try to make us pennypinchers pony up the jack to support his site and keep it going. At least that is one man's opinion....stay cool folks.
Jafo
Reply #70 Sunday, May 19, 2002 10:48 PM
Gregory, yes it's predominantly Frogboy [Brad] and Stardock, the company he runs, that is to thank for what you see here as a site, along with the talented skinners, whose work is displayed here, and the 'back-room boys' [and girls] who keep the wheels oiled and pumped up [and all them other things you do with wheels]...

Wincustomize is just over a year old, but its roots go back quite a bit further than that, hence its 'relative' smooth-running...
Frogboy
Reply #71 Sunday, May 19, 2002 11:54 PM
The site is successful because of the skinners and the volunteers (like Jafo there).

I definitely don't deserve any sort of disproprotional credit for this site.



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spoon_T_Rex
Reply #72 Monday, May 20, 2002 12:06 AM
bah! regarless of what's in this thread, I still think you're great Frogboy!
Doreen
Reply #73 Monday, May 20, 2002 8:36 AM
/note to self try to read this thread someday...
JavaBrain
Reply #74 Monday, May 20, 2002 8:41 AM
Gregory, one thing that you should keep in mind when emailing support for Logon studio, is that Logon Studio is free. It is supports obligation to support paying customers first, since the paying customers have paid for support. Questions about ObjectDesktop and so forth get priority.

If anyone has problems with support/sales, please email me directly at: [email protected]
gwall
Reply #75 Monday, May 20, 2002 11:44 AM
grwall comes out of lurk mode.

It's been an interesting - and painful - thread. Gregory's post re the success of wincustomize is bang on. I wish I could organize my thoughts and write as well.

I rarely post but read most of the messages regularly. It's unfortunate that Brad is feeling attacked and it's unfortunate that this happens with some regularity. However, I think that the vast majority of users are like me - read the message boards a bit, download lots of neat skins and stuff and enjoy being on the perefery (go for it Jafo, I know that one bites).

Like Mike says on another thread, this is great stuff. Without Wincustomize & Stardock, my computer would be dull indeed.

Garry

Sliding back into lurker mode

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feline
Reply #76 Monday, May 20, 2002 11:59 AM
i am not a skinner (maybe one day, if you are really unlucky ), so i dont have the same perspective on this as some of you.

i am merely someone who hangs out here a lot, and wishes that people could get on with each other better, since all this upset and anger isnt nice.

i can sort of see both sides of this, and a lot of very valid points have been made. most of them stand as they are.

davad70, about the items that were never sent to you. i would guess that the real cause of this is internal comunication problems at stardock.

i work for a fairly small company (about 50 people), perhaps similar in size to stardock.

however, even at this size, the number of major messes we get ourselves into, with customers being promised things in writing, but never given them, is simply increadible.

its not malice, its simply the people making the promise isnt always comunicating clearly with the person doing the sending out.

add to this confusion caused by changing rules and policies, and its only to easy for this sort of thing to happen.

sometimes you need to be blunt to get your point across, but hopefully our common interests outway our differences? *hope*
Griffinme
Reply #77 Monday, May 20, 2002 1:06 PM
From someone that has done support/helpdesk.

1) This is why most owners don't identify themselves. Usually they identify themselves to most customers/public as VP of sales. I would not be surprised if we start to see less and less of Brad.

2) Of course logons gets short shift from support. At a company the money generating products deserve more attention as do evals.

3) Mistakes happen. I have seen posts from at least 6 people either tied to this site and/or Stardock. Several of them apolegetic. I am sure they are buzzing now behind the scenes. It's not fun getting sand kicked in your face in your own sandbox.

4) Some people enjoyed the gui's in spite of not winning and all the whinning. They even appreciated them. Could it have been handled better? I think that Brad would agree to that. Would the summer ones have been handled better? We may never know. Did it generate interest in WB (more sales)? Of course. Was it worth the money, time, and aggrevation? Hard to say. It probably would have generated more sales if they had spent the money/time on an add in a computer magazine or if they had payed for better placement with various search engines.

5) OD was priced with the idea of it being able to support the company. This price was determined before the popularity of Wincustomize. This site has been great advertising for the company, but at what cost? Do the extra sales offset the huge cost of this site? From all indications, no. I may be mistaken in this, but the I had heard from other sites that they payed for the amount of traffic they had. I knew one excellant site that was killed by its own popularity.
Griffinme misses thinkpiece.com.
They have tried already several things to pay for this site. They didn't sell enough mugs, hats, and such. The ads are not paying enough. Where does that leave them. In a way they are asking for a donation. I doubt that the software/skins is worth 20$. If you use the site alot, then help pay for it. Its 20$ not 100$. Do I think it is over priced? Probably, but then everything is overpriced to the unemployed.

6) I don't care for the rating system as well, but then I doubt there is a rating system that everybody would like. It would be nice to see a rating system more people could agree on though.

7) Everyone needs to take a deeeep breath. Close your eyes and imagine. In with nice calm blue air, out with tense/angry black air. Each time you do it you see your lungs turning more and more a calm blue. Each time you see less and less angry/tense/frustrated black air coming out. HEY! Wake up!

-Me
WOM
Reply #78 Monday, May 20, 2002 1:56 PM
Griffinme: Nice post.
Third Eye
Reply #79 Monday, May 20, 2002 2:14 PM
/note to self: Read Doreen's note to self.
JayG
Reply #80 Monday, May 20, 2002 3:03 PM
i don't download many skins. i like reading the mb. but i'm old enough to know something about business and a lot of people here seem to need to learn about 'don't look a gift horse in the mouth'. all those dot coms went away for a reason. i saw all the sh*t brad took because of the gui olympics. it sure doesn't make people want to volunteer.

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