what constitutes a rip?
Wednesday, May 15, 2002 by Ruthven | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Okay, this is starting to annoy me. I keep seeing new Dashboard skins getting posted to this site that are obviously taking parts of skins that I've posted. The most-frequently stolen elements are the elements I've modeled on the XP look, though, so I have problems really calling that a rip.
But I've put a lot of effort into this work -- some smaller recreations of XP icons, some original work in the XP style. As an example, nearly every skin that 'we are wolves' has posted here uses a toolbar1 and several WISBar icons that I've created.
So do I just ignore this, or what?
But I've put a lot of effort into this work -- some smaller recreations of XP icons, some original work in the XP style. As an example, nearly every skin that 'we are wolves' has posted here uses a toolbar1 and several WISBar icons that I've created.
So do I just ignore this, or what?
Jafo
Reply #2 Wednesday, May 15, 2002 11:15 PM
Reply #2 Wednesday, May 15, 2002 11:15 PM
Glen..
A 'rip' is the uploading of graphics originally created by another artist without permission.
Unfortunately, however, OS 'ports' or OS 'styled' skins are harder to 'authenticate originality/authorship' in that both yours and subsequent 'followers' are both 'derived' from the same source.
If an icon, for example, is original to you...that is, not existing as a graphic in the actual OS then that specific item could be deemed a 'rip' if it is replicated by another.
If I cut up a BeOS image and make a WB skin I have as much 'rights' to it as if anyone else did the same thing.
It only becomes an 'actionable' rip when my BeOS skin is used by someone else to make a StylesXP skin for example.
Does that help a bit?...
A 'rip' is the uploading of graphics originally created by another artist without permission.
Unfortunately, however, OS 'ports' or OS 'styled' skins are harder to 'authenticate originality/authorship' in that both yours and subsequent 'followers' are both 'derived' from the same source.
If an icon, for example, is original to you...that is, not existing as a graphic in the actual OS then that specific item could be deemed a 'rip' if it is replicated by another.
If I cut up a BeOS image and make a WB skin I have as much 'rights' to it as if anyone else did the same thing.
It only becomes an 'actionable' rip when my BeOS skin is used by someone else to make a StylesXP skin for example.
Does that help a bit?...
Ruthven
Reply #3 Thursday, May 16, 2002 9:21 AM
Reply #3 Thursday, May 16, 2002 9:21 AM
Okay, that's clearer. But what if you're looking at two icons, both derived from the same source, and you can match them pixel-for-pixel? That's what I'm looking at here.
The kicker is the icon used for font size -- it's a replication of an XP font icon (paper with folded corner and an "A" on it), but I added dots next to it to indicate the font size. EIGHT skins by 'we are wolves' use that exact same icon, which leads me to believe the rest of the icons from that toolbar which "resemble" the ones I did are also just stolen.
I also dl'ed one of his skins to check, and three of the WISBar icons are exact matches to ones I did. The thing is, it's annoying me, but I don't really want to raise a fuss over it. I don't MIND other people using my elements like that, particularly with derived icons such as these, but I'd like to be asked first.
So if anyone's made it through my babbling here, what's my next move? Should I just ignore this, since it's not REALLY totally original work anyway? Should I kick and scream and get these skins removed from the site? Should I e-mail the offenders? Should I delete all my skins and stop looking at others so I don't face such questions again?
The kicker is the icon used for font size -- it's a replication of an XP font icon (paper with folded corner and an "A" on it), but I added dots next to it to indicate the font size. EIGHT skins by 'we are wolves' use that exact same icon, which leads me to believe the rest of the icons from that toolbar which "resemble" the ones I did are also just stolen.
I also dl'ed one of his skins to check, and three of the WISBar icons are exact matches to ones I did. The thing is, it's annoying me, but I don't really want to raise a fuss over it. I don't MIND other people using my elements like that, particularly with derived icons such as these, but I'd like to be asked first.
So if anyone's made it through my babbling here, what's my next move? Should I just ignore this, since it's not REALLY totally original work anyway? Should I kick and scream and get these skins removed from the site? Should I e-mail the offenders? Should I delete all my skins and stop looking at others so I don't face such questions again?
Doreen
Reply #4 Thursday, May 16, 2002 9:34 AM
Reply #4 Thursday, May 16, 2002 9:34 AM
Glen you could drop off a quick e-mail to the person who is using your elements and notify them how you feel and tell them to either ask next time or that they can use your elements but not upload them under their name w/o prior permission...
cuz it will continue to happen
cuz it will continue to happen
Jafo
Reply #5 Thursday, May 16, 2002 10:03 AM
Reply #5 Thursday, May 16, 2002 10:03 AM
Glen...porting and OS imitating aside, if this person is actually using your graphic images....recognisable by you with 'signature' faults or quirks, then that IS ripping.
He can imitate the OS, just as you may have, but he cannot actually use YOUR version of the OS as his.....not without your permission, anyway.
Email me with appropriate links indicating the example of plagiarism and I can deal with it directly, but not in a public forum, as that can lead to flames, etc....
[email protected]
He can imitate the OS, just as you may have, but he cannot actually use YOUR version of the OS as his.....not without your permission, anyway.
Email me with appropriate links indicating the example of plagiarism and I can deal with it directly, but not in a public forum, as that can lead to flames, etc....
[email protected]
plainsong
Reply #6 Friday, May 17, 2002 6:10 AM
Reply #6 Friday, May 17, 2002 6:10 AM
I guess it depends on who you ask. We see Juni's stuff ripped all the time by all sorts of people, but as he comes from the school of "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" he really cares not a bit. I guess it'd be a different story if someone uploaded his skin on a different site with their name on it though.
Then again, I've seen some big name skinners on this site throw temper tantrums if you even use the same colors as they do. IMO, ripping is a problem, and as stuff gets more popular it will only get worse. Then again, it's not as bad as we (The Community) make it out to be.
Does that make any sense?
Then again, I've seen some big name skinners on this site throw temper tantrums if you even use the same colors as they do. IMO, ripping is a problem, and as stuff gets more popular it will only get worse. Then again, it's not as bad as we (The Community) make it out to be.
Does that make any sense?
aafuss
Reply #7 Friday, May 17, 2002 6:15 AM
Reply #7 Friday, May 17, 2002 6:15 AM
Well, Chosen infinges on my progrsam's visual interface colors (even if they are standard win. colors)
plainsong
Reply #8 Friday, May 17, 2002 6:16 AM
Reply #8 Friday, May 17, 2002 6:16 AM
Ok, so I wasn't finished saying what I had to say. Sometimes we as "The Community" will totally go on the offensive and make ourselves look really bad to others. I subscribe to the Afterdawn Avantgo channel, where the winamp skin site had to be removed simply because instead of carefully explaining what ripping is, we basically flamed them to kingdom come.. essentially stooping to their level.
Maybe whoever is using your stuff isn't aware of ripping and might see things differently from you. Of course it's equally likely they could be complete jerks who deserved to be banned from the site, but the point is (yeah, there's a point), try solving is peacefully before going in with gun's blazing.
Maybe whoever is using your stuff isn't aware of ripping and might see things differently from you. Of course it's equally likely they could be complete jerks who deserved to be banned from the site, but the point is (yeah, there's a point), try solving is peacefully before going in with gun's blazing.
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Reply #1 Wednesday, May 15, 2002 11:09 PM
or at least, we'll send an email and remove the rip...