An X-Box XP skin!!
Thursday, April 25, 2002 by ssjwolf | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
I've seen the OS in the X-Box and it looks sick!!! It just looks so mad!! I wouldn't mind getting a skin like that for my Windows XP! Anyone want to volunteer and make one?
Regards,
Dave
Regards,
Dave
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paxx
Reply #22 Saturday, May 11, 2002 5:31 PM
Reply #22 Saturday, May 11, 2002 5:31 PM
Wait, Brad, what about a fan skin that uses a copyrighted picture?
That's not just unauthorized use of trademark, it's also unauthorize use and distribution of a copyrighted picture. Therefore copyright violation, so: bad.
That's not just unauthorized use of trademark, it's also unauthorize use and distribution of a copyrighted picture. Therefore copyright violation, so: bad.
migellito
Reply #24 Saturday, May 11, 2002 8:27 PM
Reply #24 Saturday, May 11, 2002 8:27 PM
right.. and this would be one source of perceived inconsistency. the admins and wizops are deciding daily what gets posted and what doesn't. sometimes i'm sure the choices may seem inconsistent, but really it's due to this issue and the confluence of zeitgeist and grey area. in other words, one admin on one day may see things that fall in the grey area one way, and another admin at another time may see something similar in the grey area a different way.
if one works in the grey area, your mileage 'may' differ, but probably not by much. for example, i would love to see a great spiderman skin.. but, i 'probably' wouldn't approve it if it included that specific view of spiderman's face that marvel also uses as one of their trademark images.
if one works in the grey area, your mileage 'may' differ, but probably not by much. for example, i would love to see a great spiderman skin.. but, i 'probably' wouldn't approve it if it included that specific view of spiderman's face that marvel also uses as one of their trademark images.
Xymantix
Reply #25 Saturday, May 11, 2002 9:05 PM
Reply #25 Saturday, May 11, 2002 9:05 PM
While I was a bit worked up when I first posted, one of the reasons that I did post was to try to apply some of the arguments that I've read against ripping and copyright violation to something that did appear as an infringement for copyrighted material. I actually emailed Jafo privately to ask for some clarification because I'm aware that I don't know all of the details. And, interestingly enough, many of the details that I am aware of came from this message board.
At any rate, my thinking was that 90% or so of the skin was original. All of the buttons, scrollbars, etc. are probably original work by the skin author. Those may have been modeled after the XBOX style, but I have no problem with that. What did appear to be problematic was the Start Menu. It's fairly obvious that it's extraordinarily close to the graphics from the xbox.com website. So close, that it's probably a copy.
Now, is it bad to copy that graphic? I would assume so. I'm not up on all of the legalities of trademarks and copyrights, but the www.xbox.com site says this:
"You may not modify, copy, distribute, transmit, display, perform, reproduce, publish, license, create derivative works from, transfer, or sell any information, software, products or services obtained from the Xbox.com Web Site."
So, in my defense I interpret the above legal statement from MicroSoft as saying "don't copy and redistribute the graphics from our site". However, I'm aware that that's still up for debate, as they don't specifically say graphics. But then they do say derivative works, which was my original argument. If you take the spirit of their request instead of scrutinizing which specific words they've chosen, it sounds like you shouldn't be taking their graphics.
I too agree that copyright enforcement can be taken too far. For instance, I think it's absurd that Mauna Loa Macadamia Nuts have trademarked the specific color of blue that they use for their packaging. Trademarking a color is going too far in my opinion, but then again if our country and laws are setup to accomodate and protect such things - why not?
In closing (sorry this has been so long), I *would* like to see an article covering trade dress, copyrights, IP, etc. I'm still learning the rules here as I'm sure many others are. The better informed we are, the better!
At any rate, my thinking was that 90% or so of the skin was original. All of the buttons, scrollbars, etc. are probably original work by the skin author. Those may have been modeled after the XBOX style, but I have no problem with that. What did appear to be problematic was the Start Menu. It's fairly obvious that it's extraordinarily close to the graphics from the xbox.com website. So close, that it's probably a copy.
Now, is it bad to copy that graphic? I would assume so. I'm not up on all of the legalities of trademarks and copyrights, but the www.xbox.com site says this:
"You may not modify, copy, distribute, transmit, display, perform, reproduce, publish, license, create derivative works from, transfer, or sell any information, software, products or services obtained from the Xbox.com Web Site."
So, in my defense
I interpret the above legal statement from MicroSoft as saying "don't copy and redistribute the graphics from our site". However, I'm aware that that's still up for debate, as they don't specifically say graphics. But then they do say derivative works, which was my original argument. If you take the spirit of their request instead of scrutinizing which specific words they've chosen, it sounds like you shouldn't be taking their graphics.I too agree that copyright enforcement can be taken too far. For instance, I think it's absurd that Mauna Loa Macadamia Nuts have trademarked the specific color of blue that they use for their packaging. Trademarking a color is going too far in my opinion, but then again if our country and laws are setup to accomodate and protect such things - why not?
In closing (sorry this has been so long), I *would* like to see an article covering trade dress, copyrights, IP, etc. I'm still learning the rules here as I'm sure many others are. The better informed we are, the better!
Frogboy
Reply #26 Saturday, May 11, 2002 11:43 PM
Reply #26 Saturday, May 11, 2002 11:43 PM
In the case of the X-box skin, Microsoft is well aware of the X-box skin (we showed it to them). That shouldn't be construed as a grant of license but let me put it this way:
If the X-box skin's start menu were pixel per pixel the same (i.e. a direct copy and paste or at the very least merely a modification of it) then that would be an issue. But it's pretty clear from having used it that the author SAW the xbox site and decided to recreate it for his skin. It's not the image, it's a different one.
It still makes unauthorized used of the X-box trademark but if you look on the net, there are zillions of fan sites out there doing the same thing.
One of my favorite sites is called theforce.net
http://www.theforce.net/
If you look through there, they are making heavy use of other material. This falls under fair use. I see the same thing here.
If the X-box skin's start menu were pixel per pixel the same (i.e. a direct copy and paste or at the very least merely a modification of it) then that would be an issue. But it's pretty clear from having used it that the author SAW the xbox site and decided to recreate it for his skin. It's not the image, it's a different one.
It still makes unauthorized used of the X-box trademark but if you look on the net, there are zillions of fan sites out there doing the same thing.
One of my favorite sites is called theforce.net
http://www.theforce.net/
If you look through there, they are making heavy use of other material. This falls under fair use. I see the same thing here.
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Reply #21 Saturday, May 11, 2002 4:08 PM
The problem is that people don't know the differences between copyright, trademark and tradedress.
How about this:
Copyright violations = bad.
Unauthorized trademark use = gray area.
Ripping violates copyright. The X-box skin does NOT violate copyright. I've talked to IP lawyers on these sorts of issues for years. The X-box skin does however use the X-box logo without authorization.
OS skins do not violate copyright. They do potentially violate trade dress.
I'm sorry if I sound impatient, I just get frustrated hearing net people argue intellectual property law when they really have aren't that informed about what it is. I should probably sit down some time and write up an article on it so people know the difference between copyright, trademark and trade dress.
In sort our policy on rips is that they are copyright violations and we do not tolerate copyright violations on this website.