12 principals of 'the scene'
Sunday, January 27, 2002 by JayG | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
came across this tonight. i dunno what 'the scene' is. written by one of the persons who administers customize.org.
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i would like to take a moment to present to you the 12 thing s i wish to see as the foundations of the scene:
1. the scene is created by artists and hackers and only artists and hackers
2. the scene is targetted toward artists and hackers
3. the scene is dedicated to the combination of art and personal technology
4. the works of the scene should be available to all, even those too poor, or young to afford payment for professional solutions to same tasks
5. we must do everything we can to prevent strong anti-site rivalry in the major sites of the scene
6. we must do everything to foster cooperations and interworking between the various sites
7. the scene should always favor software that is free and most customizable
8. the scene should favor open source software, as it is both free and customizable
9. the scene should stay away from hardware as it.s non-free-to-copy nature makes it less available to some users
10. the scene must be as open as possible. we musn.t never forget that the same kids who just read and download today are the ones who will lead it all tomorrow
11. the scene should lean away from closed licenses. remixing should be allowed as a learning tool, as long as proper credit is given
12. the scene should foster free communication, but allow moderation of people who only post to offend
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i'm not a hacker or artist. so i guess i'm excluded.
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i would like to take a moment to present to you the 12 thing s i wish to see as the foundations of the scene:
1. the scene is created by artists and hackers and only artists and hackers
2. the scene is targetted toward artists and hackers
3. the scene is dedicated to the combination of art and personal technology
4. the works of the scene should be available to all, even those too poor, or young to afford payment for professional solutions to same tasks
5. we must do everything we can to prevent strong anti-site rivalry in the major sites of the scene
6. we must do everything to foster cooperations and interworking between the various sites
7. the scene should always favor software that is free and most customizable
8. the scene should favor open source software, as it is both free and customizable
9. the scene should stay away from hardware as it.s non-free-to-copy nature makes it less available to some users
10. the scene must be as open as possible. we musn.t never forget that the same kids who just read and download today are the ones who will lead it all tomorrow
11. the scene should lean away from closed licenses. remixing should be allowed as a learning tool, as long as proper credit is given
12. the scene should foster free communication, but allow moderation of people who only post to offend
=========================================
i'm not a hacker or artist. so i guess i'm excluded.
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Jafo
Reply #2 Sunday, January 27, 2002 8:46 AM
Reply #2 Sunday, January 27, 2002 8:46 AM
He forgot....
13. The scene must allow a person to cast his opinion, no matter how ill-informed or abusive/insulting that opinion is, because it is his opinion, and it is always correct.
Yes, the Custo 'scene' is, and always has been, a place where frequenters pride themselves in their ability to invent newer and more eloquent ways to say 'this sux'....their justification being that like a boy named 'Sue' [how do you do?], it makes the poor recipient a stronger and better person....
Yes, 11 is questionable regarding copyright.
Oh well, not 'entirely' my scene...
13. The scene must allow a person to cast his opinion, no matter how ill-informed or abusive/insulting that opinion is, because it is his opinion, and it is always correct.
Yes, the Custo 'scene' is, and always has been, a place where frequenters pride themselves in their ability to invent newer and more eloquent ways to say 'this sux'....their justification being that like a boy named 'Sue' [how do you do?], it makes the poor recipient a stronger and better person....
Yes, 11 is questionable regarding copyright.
Oh well, not 'entirely' my scene...
craeonics
Reply #3 Sunday, January 27, 2002 11:17 AM
Reply #3 Sunday, January 27, 2002 11:17 AM
#7 comes from #4, as does #8. #9 probably means no case modding. #10 means "be nice to newbies". #11 is curious. #13 is covered by #12.
Firestorm
Reply #4 Sunday, January 27, 2002 12:56 PM
Reply #4 Sunday, January 27, 2002 12:56 PM
Funny that a "scene" promoting artistic and technological innovation should have such a long-ass list of rules
I have a problem with the whole thing, excep 5,6, and 12.
I have a problem with the whole thing, excep 5,6, and 12.
John Hamp
Reply #5 Sunday, January 27, 2002 1:00 PM
Reply #5 Sunday, January 27, 2002 1:00 PM
Reminds me of animal farm and the rules the pigs made. I've read the customize message board. Strange...no moderating of Shogots posts against Frogboy which exist just to offend. Some pigs are more equal than others...
Frogboy
Reply #6 Sunday, January 27, 2002 5:38 PM
Reply #6 Sunday, January 27, 2002 5:38 PM
I have generally found one unique thing about "the scene" or "the community" is a tendancy of historical revisionism.
The result is that there is a regular claim that "the community" was created by individual techies creating open source freeware stuff and that only later, after they "built this community" did "evil corproations" move in.
Luckily, thanks to archive.org which backed up snapshots of the web, this can be demonstratably false.
Consider:
http://web.archive.org/web/19981111190906/http://customize.org/
The very first Customize.org snapshot from November, 1998.
At that time, it was basically all MP3 players that were skinnable. The 2 most popular ones - Sonique and WinAmp were done by corporations (With Nullsoft going on to get millions from AOL).
At that same time, Object Desktop was in beta, WindowBlinds was in beta.
Here's another snapshot from January 1999:
http://web.archive.org/web/19990125094548/http://www.customize.org/
There are now 15 skin categories there including WindowBlinds, WinAmp, Sonique, Neoplanet. None of them (to my knowledge) were open source. And obviously many of them were made by commercial companies.
The fact is, "the scene" wasn't created by hackers in the traditional sense of the word. Software companies were there from day 1. One can argue how much influence Nullsoft, Neoplanet, Stardock, and others would have on the future direction of "the scene" but no one can deny that they were there and that they have had at least quite a bit of influence.
The result is that there is a regular claim that "the community" was created by individual techies creating open source freeware stuff and that only later, after they "built this community" did "evil corproations" move in.
Luckily, thanks to archive.org which backed up snapshots of the web, this can be demonstratably false.
Consider:
http://web.archive.org/web/19981111190906/http://customize.org/
The very first Customize.org snapshot from November, 1998.
At that time, it was basically all MP3 players that were skinnable. The 2 most popular ones - Sonique and WinAmp were done by corporations (With Nullsoft going on to get millions from AOL).
At that same time, Object Desktop was in beta, WindowBlinds was in beta.
Here's another snapshot from January 1999:
http://web.archive.org/web/19990125094548/http://www.customize.org/
There are now 15 skin categories there including WindowBlinds, WinAmp, Sonique, Neoplanet. None of them (to my knowledge) were open source. And obviously many of them were made by commercial companies.
The fact is, "the scene" wasn't created by hackers in the traditional sense of the word. Software companies were there from day 1. One can argue how much influence Nullsoft, Neoplanet, Stardock, and others would have on the future direction of "the scene" but no one can deny that they were there and that they have had at least quite a bit of influence.
Frogboy
Reply #8 Sunday, January 27, 2002 7:48 PM
Reply #8 Sunday, January 27, 2002 7:48 PM
I miss K-jfol. They're at Nullsoft now. I've heard that WinAmp 3 borrows a lot from it.
Frogboy
Reply #10 Monday, January 28, 2002 1:48 AM
Reply #10 Monday, January 28, 2002 1:48 AM
It gets pretty funny. Check out the thread on Customize:
http://www.customize.org/forum/1318
http://www.customize.org/forum/1318
Grog
Reply #11 Monday, January 28, 2002 2:15 AM
Reply #11 Monday, January 28, 2002 2:15 AM
Rather Sad if you ask me 
Why shouldn't everyone be allowed to play?
Why shouldn't everyone be allowed to play?
Frogboy
Reply #12 Monday, January 28, 2002 3:10 AM
Reply #12 Monday, January 28, 2002 3:10 AM
What is ironic is that Miriku doesn't make skins or write any of the software that is skinnable. Yet he sees himself as part of "the scene" but would exclude me.
Firestorm
Reply #13 Monday, January 28, 2002 4:05 AM
Reply #13 Monday, January 28, 2002 4:05 AM
Let him rant... It's not as if he'll change anything in the grand scheme of things, other than the meaningless boundaries he imposes in his mind, and in those of his yes-men. Seriously, what can he do by "excluding" for-profit devs from the "scene"? Are people suddenly gonna stop using WB? I doubt it.
craeonics
Reply #14 Monday, January 28, 2002 5:08 AM
Reply #14 Monday, January 28, 2002 5:08 AM
Neither do I, but that has never stopped me. Anyway, if you remember... skinning started with WinAmp being hacked. The skinnability was added in response.
Firestorm
Reply #15 Monday, January 28, 2002 12:42 PM
Reply #15 Monday, January 28, 2002 12:42 PM
Posted by miriku in the thread Brad posted a link to:
"no big deal at all, i just dont want to aim the scene to either him, or his crowd of aol friendly programmers, or the aol types he writes for."
So what are we now, "Stardock kids" or "AOL Types"?
Amazing what the world looks like if you're narrow-minded enough, eh, miriku?
"no big deal at all, i just dont want to aim the scene to either him, or his crowd of aol friendly programmers, or the aol types he writes for."
So what are we now, "Stardock kids" or "AOL Types"?
Amazing what the world looks like if you're narrow-minded enough, eh, miriku?
Koasati
Reply #16 Monday, January 28, 2002 1:17 PM
Reply #16 Monday, January 28, 2002 1:17 PM
"We usually see only the things we are looking for.....so much so, that we sometimes see them where they are not."
.........Eric Hoffer........
.........Eric Hoffer........
Firestorm
Reply #17 Monday, January 28, 2002 1:19 PM
Reply #17 Monday, January 28, 2002 1:19 PM
There's this guy I used to know... BIG indie band fan. Hardly anyone could stand him. Why, you ask?
Well, he wasn't so much a fan of the bands as he was a fan of the "scene" (there's that annoying little word again.) He loved being a fan of an "underground" act. The second said act went big, he disowned them, because apparently, being able to make a living through your craft is automatically equal to selling out. And he despised those people who became fans of the band thanks to the exposure they got after they "sold out." Fugeddaboudit, you can't possibly be a hardcore fan if you didn't know about them when they had no means to reach a wide audience.
Miriku strikes me as the same kind of person. He doesn't care as much about skinning as he does about the feeling he gets out of being part of a small community, and the perceived "status" that comes with it. Elitism is a sure-fire way to stifle the artistic and technological freedom he pays so much lip service to.
Well, he wasn't so much a fan of the bands as he was a fan of the "scene" (there's that annoying little word again.) He loved being a fan of an "underground" act. The second said act went big, he disowned them, because apparently, being able to make a living through your craft is automatically equal to selling out. And he despised those people who became fans of the band thanks to the exposure they got after they "sold out." Fugeddaboudit, you can't possibly be a hardcore fan if you didn't know about them when they had no means to reach a wide audience.
Miriku strikes me as the same kind of person. He doesn't care as much about skinning as he does about the feeling he gets out of being part of a small community, and the perceived "status" that comes with it. Elitism is a sure-fire way to stifle the artistic and technological freedom he pays so much lip service to.
Frogboy
Reply #18 Monday, January 28, 2002 2:52 PM
Reply #18 Monday, January 28, 2002 2:52 PM
Doesn't really matter. People can lock themselves in a hut and call that a scene too. It has nothing to do with skinning or what most people imagine as the skinning community or even the wider desktop customization community. The guy posting it doesn't even make skins or write software and runs Microsoft Windows afterall. He's not flying with all thrusters.
Jafo
Reply #19 Monday, January 28, 2002 4:04 PM
Reply #19 Monday, January 28, 2002 4:04 PM
'Not flying with all thrusters'...in Oz that's 'he has a few kangaroos loose in the top paddock'...
JayG
Reply #20 Monday, January 28, 2002 5:11 PM
Reply #20 Monday, January 28, 2002 5:11 PM
at least they finally put forth in black and white their manifesto. i belong to a community, they belong to a scene.
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Reply #1 Sunday, January 27, 2002 3:08 AM
What specifically is a "hacker"? In recent years the term has been expanded. Is anyone who likes to make their system different than the status quo a hacker? Do software developers count? Do most skin authors think of themselves as artists? I don't know the answers to that.
I don't agree with #7. I prefer to use what works the best. I don't really care whether it's free or not.
Same for #8, don't care if it's open source. Other than Litestep, I'm not aware of any open source projects that have been successful in the Windows customization world.
Not sure what #9 means.
#10 isn't really true in reality. If one were to do a demographic study of the ones actually creating the software and making the skins and themes most people actually use (and I happen to know of such a statistical analsys on that ) age is not a factor. It is truly a phenomenon that appeals to people of all ages and people exposed to it are people of all ages. And most of the apps, skins, and themes that are used are created by people older than 20.
#11 I'm not sure I understand. I know that I don't agree that people should be able to use other people's work without permission. Giving credit isn't enough. They need permission. But I'm not sure if Miriku (who, btw, Jay, is the one you quoted without attribution
#12 I agree with.