Immense Style XP arrogance!
Saturday, January 12, 2002 by John Hamp | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
OK I confess I tried out Style XP awhile back. But today I got a shocker! An expiration dialog that they never mentioned poppped up. But if that wasn't shocking enough, the arrogance in their dialog: "Please support the skinning community by registering Style XP!" So paying TGTSoft, a company with no skin library of its own, no forums on its site, which just makes a patch is supporting the community? What arrogance!
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Frogboy
Reply #2 Saturday, January 12, 2002 5:48 PM
Reply #2 Saturday, January 12, 2002 5:48 PM
Whoa hold the phone there Mephisto.
First off, Stardock pays over $10k a month for WinCustomize. People who buy WindowBlinds are, in effect, supporting this site. I happen to know that ThemeXP doesn't get money from TGTSoft.
Secondly, we have never used the tactic "support the community, give US money" on our software. We have always used the straight approach of if our software in itself helps you, then you should pay for it. I haven't seen the Style XP expiration dialog but if it actually says "Support the community, register Style XP" then that's giving the impression that proceeds somehow are given to some community.
I don't see how giving money to 3 guys in Arizona being support for a community. Similarly, I don't see how people purchasing a Stardock product is supporting some community either. It is a misrepresentation.
First off, Stardock pays over $10k a month for WinCustomize. People who buy WindowBlinds are, in effect, supporting this site. I happen to know that ThemeXP doesn't get money from TGTSoft.
Secondly, we have never used the tactic "support the community, give US money" on our software. We have always used the straight approach of if our software in itself helps you, then you should pay for it. I haven't seen the Style XP expiration dialog but if it actually says "Support the community, register Style XP" then that's giving the impression that proceeds somehow are given to some community.
I don't see how giving money to 3 guys in Arizona being support for a community. Similarly, I don't see how people purchasing a Stardock product is supporting some community either. It is a misrepresentation.
John Hamp
Reply #3 Saturday, January 12, 2002 5:56 PM
Reply #3 Saturday, January 12, 2002 5:56 PM
What "Community" do you speak of then, Mephisto Corugant? If I give TGTSoft my $19.95 for Style XP what community is that supporting?
If I start up the Chris Hamp charity where the money goes to just me, is that still a charity?
These guys are parasites in the truest sense. They don't have a skin site or pay for one. They don't even have a support forum for me to make my bitch post. And they make a program that profits off of Microsoft's engine. Style XP can be reproduced with a few lines in a hex editor which is what I'm going to do. To the unwary it may fool. But to me it's a scam.
There may be an msstyles community but paying for Style XP doesn't support it. No other program I have ever used has ever tried to sleaze its way into my wallet by pandering to my guilt like this patch does. Support "the community" indeed!
If I start up the Chris Hamp charity where the money goes to just me, is that still a charity?
These guys are parasites in the truest sense. They don't have a skin site or pay for one. They don't even have a support forum for me to make my bitch post. And they make a program that profits off of Microsoft's engine. Style XP can be reproduced with a few lines in a hex editor which is what I'm going to do. To the unwary it may fool. But to me it's a scam.
There may be an msstyles community but paying for Style XP doesn't support it. No other program I have ever used has ever tried to sleaze its way into my wallet by pandering to my guilt like this patch does. Support "the community" indeed!
paxx
Reply #4 Saturday, January 12, 2002 5:57 PM
Reply #4 Saturday, January 12, 2002 5:57 PM
There is no surprise in TGTSoft starting to charge for Style XP. That was never a secret, although I do find humorous that they got the bulk of their customer base from people who didn't want to pay for Windowblinds.
Anyhow, now that they are both the same price, may the best product win (no doubt in my mind about that one).
Anyhow, now that they are both the same price, may the best product win (no doubt in my mind about that one).
Emily
Reply #5 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:01 PM
Reply #5 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:01 PM
I don't have Windows XP nor do I envision it any time in the forseeable future. But any company that tries to get you to pay them money via "support the community" guises I would be wary of.
Maybe I'm a cynic but I'd be disgusted is General Motors tried "Buy a new Chevy to support America! Don't let the terrorists win".
Maybe I'm a cynic but I'd be disgusted is General Motors tried "Buy a new Chevy to support America! Don't let the terrorists win".
sexjunkkie
Reply #6 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:02 PM
Reply #6 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:02 PM
why dont you download the key generator for it and it wont cost you anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mephisto corugant
Reply #7 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:02 PM
Reply #7 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:02 PM
firstly in my rebuttal, i'm not backing the actions tgtsoft is taking. let tony and thomas and that other guy cause i can't remember his name do what they want to. i'm refuting thehamster's thought that there is no community for msstyles.
now, the wincustomize thing. firstly, sorry, i didn't think things completely through. but, secondly, there is a similar setup between tgtsoft and stardock with regards to accessing more themes than the ones bundled with their wares. both have links off their main site, and by this i mean www.tgtsoft.com and www.stardock.com that lead to other sites, owned by them or not, with respective themes. those sites then have forums and messageboards and support and the like. so in that way, the way i was trying to convey, they have similar setups. both have a 'community' associated with them, and i'm sorry for coming off on the wrong foot. I know wincustomize's tab is picked up by stardock, but it's also not a completely monopolised repository for just stardock products skins (i hate grammar), as neither is deviantart or themexp (though that one's pushing it a bit)
so again, sorry for not fleshing that out adequately.
and honestly, i got stylexp and stylebuilder free from tgtsoft because they're going to be using acid etched in the next community skin pack. there's that damn word again. so perhaps i am biased, but i'm not gonna kiss their ass and do their own pr work. i'm just trying to get across that, despite what tgtsoft do, there is in fact a community of people making skins that use the msstyle format. some of those people are actually getting a kickback of some sort from tgtsoft, despite there being a free alternative (hacked .dll and reshacker) in the form of free registrations, but still, point remains, there is an msstyle community, though whether tgtsoft is supporting them or not is your own opinion.
if that doesn't quite read right, blame canada...
now, the wincustomize thing. firstly, sorry, i didn't think things completely through. but, secondly, there is a similar setup between tgtsoft and stardock with regards to accessing more themes than the ones bundled with their wares. both have links off their main site, and by this i mean www.tgtsoft.com and www.stardock.com that lead to other sites, owned by them or not, with respective themes. those sites then have forums and messageboards and support and the like. so in that way, the way i was trying to convey, they have similar setups. both have a 'community' associated with them, and i'm sorry for coming off on the wrong foot. I know wincustomize's tab is picked up by stardock, but it's also not a completely monopolised repository for just stardock products skins (i hate grammar), as neither is deviantart or themexp (though that one's pushing it a bit)
so again, sorry for not fleshing that out adequately.
and honestly, i got stylexp and stylebuilder free from tgtsoft because they're going to be using acid etched in the next community skin pack. there's that damn word again. so perhaps i am biased, but i'm not gonna kiss their ass and do their own pr work. i'm just trying to get across that, despite what tgtsoft do, there is in fact a community of people making skins that use the msstyle format. some of those people are actually getting a kickback of some sort from tgtsoft, despite there being a free alternative (hacked .dll and reshacker) in the form of free registrations, but still, point remains, there is an msstyle community, though whether tgtsoft is supporting them or not is your own opinion.
if that doesn't quite read right, blame canada...
Firestorm
Reply #8 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:08 PM
Reply #8 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:08 PM
Reading a post on a message board that explains how to hack uxtheme.dll on your own: Free.
Hex editor: Free.
Bypassing TGTSoft and their unethical business practices: Priceless.
Hex editor: Free.
Bypassing TGTSoft and their unethical business practices: Priceless.
JayG
Reply #9 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:10 PM
Reply #9 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:10 PM
i didn't read hamster's remarks in saying there is no community. quite the contrary. i read his remarks as saying that giving money to tgtsoft supports no community in particular. do you disagree? if so, what community is tgtsoft supporting and how? as fb says, even stardock, which does very overtly support communities of users, doesn't use that tactic. when you act like a charity you raise the bar. where does that 20 bucks go? what support are they giving with that money?
Istari
Reply #10 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:16 PM
Reply #10 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:16 PM
http://www.netsol.com/cgi-bin/whois/whois?STRING=WinCustomize.com&SearchType=do&STRING2.x=17&STRING2.y=4
WinCustomize is owned 100% by Stardock. And paid for by Stardock. Coded by Stardock.
[Disclaimer I work for Stardock]
While Stardock doesn't expressly state that buying Object Desktop supports "the community" it effectively does since it's sales of Object Desktop that pay for this site and the Stardock news groups which are quite massive. But Stardock's software never tries to get you to buy these programs to support skinning or community or anything, it is always based on the merit of the program.
WinCustomize is owned 100% by Stardock. And paid for by Stardock. Coded by Stardock.
[Disclaimer I work for Stardock]
While Stardock doesn't expressly state that buying Object Desktop supports "the community" it effectively does since it's sales of Object Desktop that pay for this site and the Stardock news groups which are quite massive. But Stardock's software never tries to get you to buy these programs to support skinning or community or anything, it is always based on the merit of the program.
John Hamp
Reply #11 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:21 PM
Reply #11 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:21 PM
Wow I made a hot topic! 
I did not say that there was no msstyles community. I just don't see how giving my money to a couple of guys who whipped up a hack as supporting it. If anyone should be collecting money it shoudl be websites you mention.
That Stardock is paying for Wincustomize that in turn supports non Stardock programs just highights the difference between TGTSoft and Stardock. Funny that Shoggot isn't reading this. It would be a good object lesson of ethical standards of different companies. One actually spends money to help the community the other leeches off of it giving nothing back while trying to guilt people into giving them money under false pretenses.
The arrogance I speak of is that TGTSoft seems to have elected themselves as guardians of the msstyles community that they give precious little back to. They weren't even the first to patch that DLL. They're just the first to try to profit from it.
I did not say that there was no msstyles community. I just don't see how giving my money to a couple of guys who whipped up a hack as supporting it. If anyone should be collecting money it shoudl be websites you mention.
That Stardock is paying for Wincustomize that in turn supports non Stardock programs just highights the difference between TGTSoft and Stardock. Funny that Shoggot isn't reading this. It would be a good object lesson of ethical standards of different companies. One actually spends money to help the community the other leeches off of it giving nothing back while trying to guilt people into giving them money under false pretenses.
The arrogance I speak of is that TGTSoft seems to have elected themselves as guardians of the msstyles community that they give precious little back to. They weren't even the first to patch that DLL. They're just the first to try to profit from it.
mephisto corugant
Reply #12 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:30 PM
Reply #12 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:30 PM
i'm just gonna throw this in:
emily, if you buy a car, especially in the last few months with the 0% apr, you are in fact supporting america...well, her economy at least. the more you spend the better the economy becomes, and the better the economy becomes then the better companies do and the better they do then the more people they can afford to take on while still maintaining profitablitiy and in doing that you are keeping families off the streets and supporting the war effort by giving the government more money in the form of tax dollars to play with and buy informants, offer rewards, things like that...
other than that, no i'm not a fan of tgtsoft. stylebuilder is nice, but that's about it.
emily, if you buy a car, especially in the last few months with the 0% apr, you are in fact supporting america...well, her economy at least. the more you spend the better the economy becomes, and the better the economy becomes then the better companies do and the better they do then the more people they can afford to take on while still maintaining profitablitiy and in doing that you are keeping families off the streets and supporting the war effort by giving the government more money in the form of tax dollars to play with and buy informants, offer rewards, things like that...
other than that, no i'm not a fan of tgtsoft. stylebuilder is nice, but that's about it.
craeonics
Reply #13 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:54 PM
Reply #13 Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:54 PM
There's only so much money one can spend. THe entire capitalist model is flawed.
No, this has little to do with the current subject.
craeonics goes print some money
No, this has little to do with the current subject.
craeonics goes print some money
Frogboy
Reply #14 Saturday, January 12, 2002 7:11 PM
Reply #14 Saturday, January 12, 2002 7:11 PM
The difference is that GM doesn't say "Buy a car or the terrorists win" They try to get you to buy the car based on you wanting the car in question.
I would rather see Neowin or ThemeXP get money from users since they are the ones actually paying the bills of supporting that community of users.
I would rather see Neowin or ThemeXP get money from users since they are the ones actually paying the bills of supporting that community of users.
AJCrowley
Reply #15 Tuesday, January 15, 2002 3:45 PM
Reply #15 Tuesday, January 15, 2002 3:45 PM
If you buy a car you are supporting the American economy. You support the dealership by signing the deal, and you support the baillifs when they come to reposses your car because you and half of the rest of the country just got laid off, so go and buy a car!
On a side note, what TGTSoft is doing is wrong in my eyes, they are undeniably trying to promote the idea that MSStyles is their product, which it is not. In this free economy, if I started trying to sell my own patched version of UXTheme.dll, what sort of messages do you think would start cropping up about me in the various subsets of the skinning community? Imagine then that I had the nerve to suggest that giving me money was supporting the community...I envision a Jay and Silent Bob style internet-revenge-beating of biblical proportions heading my way.
AJ
On a side note, what TGTSoft is doing is wrong in my eyes, they are undeniably trying to promote the idea that MSStyles is their product, which it is not. In this free economy, if I started trying to sell my own patched version of UXTheme.dll, what sort of messages do you think would start cropping up about me in the various subsets of the skinning community? Imagine then that I had the nerve to suggest that giving me money was supporting the community...I envision a Jay and Silent Bob style internet-revenge-beating of biblical proportions heading my way.
AJ
treetog
Reply #16 Tuesday, January 15, 2002 4:08 PM
Reply #16 Tuesday, January 15, 2002 4:08 PM
It's amazing to see how TGTSoft continue to make "mistakes" on their "community" aproches
shoggot
Reply #17 Tuesday, January 15, 2002 6:14 PM
Reply #17 Tuesday, January 15, 2002 6:14 PM
Person A drowns 15 puppies. Person B drowns only 10 puppies.
Yes, I see the difference, TheHamster. On drowns fewer puppies. Doesn't mean that they don't drown puppies at all.
Yes, I see the difference, TheHamster. On drowns fewer puppies. Doesn't mean that they don't drown puppies at all.
GreenReaper
Reply #18 Tuesday, January 15, 2002 8:00 PM
Reply #18 Tuesday, January 15, 2002 8:00 PM
Yesss - drown them - drown them all! Them and their perky eyes and fluffy whiskers!
GreenReaper thought he saw person C standing on the side shouting "oh no, please don't kill my puppies!" - I'll get him later, too. Mhuahahah!
GreenReaper thought he saw person C standing on the side shouting "oh no, please don't kill my puppies!" - I'll get him later, too. Mhuahahah!
John Hamp
Reply #20 Tuesday, January 15, 2002 10:29 PM
Reply #20 Tuesday, January 15, 2002 10:29 PM
What shreds of credibility Shoggot may have had he has sure pissed away here.
Stay with me here shoggot, company A tries to get people to buy their product based on what it does. company B tries to get you to buy their product as a way to show support for 'the skinning community'. That's because Style XP makers know that their patch doesn't do enough to justify a $20 price tag. So they try to deceive people into thinking that the $20 is supporting 'the skinning community'. If they paid for themexp they might have an argument. but they don't even pay for the main site that hosts their skins.
Stay with me here shoggot, company A tries to get people to buy their product based on what it does. company B tries to get you to buy their product as a way to show support for 'the skinning community'. That's because Style XP makers know that their patch doesn't do enough to justify a $20 price tag. So they try to deceive people into thinking that the $20 is supporting 'the skinning community'. If they paid for themexp they might have an argument. but they don't even pay for the main site that hosts their skins.
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Reply #1 Saturday, January 12, 2002 5:41 PM
besides, if you read the eula when you installed stylexp, you would've seen that the betas are only good for 90 days and it's expiration would not have shocked you. you DID read the eula didn't you?
besides, you don't have to pay tgtsoft to use msstyles, either make the changes to uxtheme.dll yourself and run with it or grab the 'fixed' .dll from any number of sites.
just wanted to try and clear that stuff up a bit before this turns into too great a circle-jerk...