RIP RIP RIP
Thursday, November 15, 2001 by Alexandrie | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
tired of this
http://www.boomgames.com/xpthemes/browse.php?sort=utime&order=desc&type=theme&start=45
can please someone tell me what to do with that ??
this is the third time he put my skin online on XPStyle.
http://www.boomgames.com/xpthemes/browse.php?sort=utime&order=desc&type=theme&start=45
can please someone tell me what to do with that ??
this is the third time he put my skin online on XPStyle.
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adni18
Reply #42 Sunday, November 18, 2001 4:31 AM
Reply #42 Sunday, November 18, 2001 4:31 AM
You are right Alexandrie!!!
Also the site www.themexp.org must be renamed to "THE RIPPERS SITE".
Except from the rips of Styles XP, they have ripped many of my wallpapers !!!
What kind of people are those people?
Someone must help me to stop them; I am not very good in this kind of action.
Also the site www.themexp.org must be renamed to "THE RIPPERS SITE".
Except from the rips of Styles XP, they have ripped many of my wallpapers !!!
What kind of people are those people?
Someone must help me to stop them; I am not very good in this kind of action.
thecat2000
Reply #43 Sunday, November 18, 2001 10:33 AM
Reply #43 Sunday, November 18, 2001 10:33 AM
Yes,.. Perhaps this goes back to the age old issue of just 'How'do you protect the work of the Artist. This come up a while ago, where some people were suggesting some kind of ability from with programs like Skin Studio to actually protect the images from being copied to any other source obviously once you had actually compiled the Skin/Theme.
YaY to Jafo ! Actually I actually kicked boomgames ignorant butt over the Porn Thing which they lightly brushed off as well. But as you say this is not the End of this yet
This site, if it cannot operate within acceptible terms of use and the policy does not protect Artists, or Minors because of such material basically being unprotected, and generally laxed in its approach towards Copyrights etc, then this site must be shutdown.
Their morals on Skinning/Themes and Copyrights are obviously very different to what we see on sites like Wincustomize and other places such as deviantart, which ALSO practices a none tolerance towards Ripping. But eitherway these perpertrators of the Standards were used to working, cannot be allowed to get away with this ! Other wise every Author's work won't be safe from harm.
YaY to Jafo ! Actually I actually kicked boomgames ignorant butt over the Porn Thing which they lightly brushed off as well. But as you say this is not the End of this yet
This site, if it cannot operate within acceptible terms of use and the policy does not protect Artists, or Minors because of such material basically being unprotected, and generally laxed in its approach towards Copyrights etc, then this site must be shutdown. Their morals on Skinning/Themes and Copyrights are obviously very different to what we see on sites like Wincustomize and other places such as deviantart, which ALSO practices a none tolerance towards Ripping. But eitherway these perpertrators of the Standards were used to working, cannot be allowed to get away with this ! Other wise every Author's work won't be safe from harm.
Alexandrie
Reply #44 Sunday, November 18, 2001 4:09 PM
Reply #44 Sunday, November 18, 2001 4:09 PM
Thecat2000 they will find a way to crack or hack the protection. 
Firestorm
Reply #45 Sunday, November 18, 2001 5:25 PM
Reply #45 Sunday, November 18, 2001 5:25 PM
I guess we'll all end up having to make sure everything's kosher and properly copyright our work. Apparently the "Honor system" can't be trusted anymore :/
adni18
Reply #46 Sunday, November 18, 2001 5:33 PM
Reply #46 Sunday, November 18, 2001 5:33 PM
You are right again Alexandrie, there is no way to stop the hackers! But at least you can stop a big number of this kind of people.
thecat2000
Reply #47 Sunday, November 18, 2001 6:26 PM
Reply #47 Sunday, November 18, 2001 6:26 PM
Thats bad to read this.. However a protection system would STILL Stop some of them at least. While in the mean time it would make it harder for some one to Steal a Skin, and justify his actions. He wouldn't be able to claim ownership as easily as if the protection had not been there.
Bottom line is this : if a skin is ripped [Sorry Stolen] from an Author, that was made under any such protection system, it will be hard for them to say that they actually created the graphics themselves. Due to the Fact that to make an 'Inspired' reproduction of a theme would have meant that they would have had to have at least access to the Original Graphics in the First Place. How else would an 'Inspired' Theme look identical to the original ?
(I also wished I had sat out more as a Law Student some years ago now !) Tsk..
Bottom line is this : if a skin is ripped [Sorry Stolen] from an Author, that was made under any such protection system, it will be hard for them to say that they actually created the graphics themselves. Due to the Fact that to make an 'Inspired' reproduction of a theme would have meant that they would have had to have at least access to the Original Graphics in the First Place. How else would an 'Inspired' Theme look identical to the original ?
(I also wished I had sat out more as a Law Student some years ago now !) Tsk..
JavaBrain
Reply #48 Monday, November 19, 2001 7:40 AM
Reply #48 Monday, November 19, 2001 7:40 AM
I know Apple lawyers think that they have copyright rights to art "inspired" by Mac OS 10. 
Just because you "re-created" the art doesn't mean that you can pass it on as your own. (especially if the artist did *not* give you permission) I guess I should be able to copy the Mona Lisa and say "Well, I painted it myself, it was just "inspired" by Leonardo da Vinci's painting"? Hmmm.. I don't think so..
Just because you "re-created" the art doesn't mean that you can pass it on as your own. (especially if the artist did *not* give you permission) I guess I should be able to copy the Mona Lisa and say "Well, I painted it myself, it was just "inspired" by Leonardo da Vinci's painting"? Hmmm.. I don't think so..
Caylynn
Reply #49 Monday, November 19, 2001 8:18 AM
Reply #49 Monday, November 19, 2001 8:18 AM
Artists who make 'linkware' graphics have dealt with very similar issues, and have created many web sites to help educate users. Maybe the skinning community could take their examples and create similar programs for this community.
Here are some links to check out:
http://www.whatiscopyright.org/
http://moyra.com/jewels/eleventh.html
http://www.rightsforartists.com/
http://greyday.org/
http://www.widowsweb.com/widows/plea.html
Here are some links to check out:
http://www.whatiscopyright.org/
http://moyra.com/jewels/eleventh.html
http://www.rightsforartists.com/
http://greyday.org/
http://www.widowsweb.com/widows/plea.html
adni18
Reply #50 Monday, November 19, 2001 1:26 PM
Reply #50 Monday, November 19, 2001 1:26 PM
Your links are very interesting Miss Caylynn !!!
Thank you
Thank you
Alexandrie
Reply #52 Monday, November 19, 2001 11:31 PM
Reply #52 Monday, November 19, 2001 11:31 PM
well it seems they are going to keep the rip
here is what I wrote on second email to the owner of the web site
********************************
From: Johanne Chainé [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 8:23 PM
To: Chase Venters
Subject: Re: RIP
first of all there is a diffrence between BASED and PORT
This is a port it's not based, the only thing he made is the XP task bar based on my stuff. I request the removal of this skin right now! It's not hard to proove that skin was create by me, this skin has been made BEFORE Luna from Microsoft, this was a tentative to find the look that Microsoft would come up with. This skin has been default skin for Windowblinds from Stardock since the first day. So it's really easy to proove. Take this down.
Neodescis removed it from his web page, so that means he admit that he is not the author. Since the beginning Neodescis is giving me headache, I'm trying to be patient as much as I can but enough is enough.
First he post without asking, than ask me after and I said no and explained him why.
He removed the skin.
Then he open his web page and post the link on iexbeta board saying that he finnaly got my permission, FALSE!!!
I told him again to turn this off and I was not happy at all. I explain him my point of view and again he removed the link on his web page.
And now it's on your site? and you are telling he post it!
Here is the forum
http://board.iexbeta.com/cgi-bin/ib2/topic.cgi?forum=17&topic=204&start=0
**********************
Here is his web page
http://www.peakpeak.com/~nicks/themes.html
he said:
PreLuna
Well, unbelieveably, I was forced to take the link down to this beautiful skin. If you want to protest the removal of this skin, contact Alexandrie. Here is a screenshot of what you could have had: Screenshot
***********************
I'm not the kind of person to attack person without any good reason, I'm a peacefull person, but this his enough, I understand you have different point of view here but this is not the point. As the operator of the site you have to turn this off, this is not a request this is an obligation. Your way to proceed should be revise.
Regards,
Johanne Chainé
[email protected]
http://www.pixtudio.com/
here is what I wrote on second email to the owner of the web site
********************************
From: Johanne Chainé [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 8:23 PM
To: Chase Venters
Subject: Re: RIP
first of all there is a diffrence between BASED and PORT
This is a port it's not based, the only thing he made is the XP task bar based on my stuff. I request the removal of this skin right now! It's not hard to proove that skin was create by me, this skin has been made BEFORE Luna from Microsoft, this was a tentative to find the look that Microsoft would come up with. This skin has been default skin for Windowblinds from Stardock since the first day. So it's really easy to proove. Take this down.
Neodescis removed it from his web page, so that means he admit that he is not the author. Since the beginning Neodescis is giving me headache, I'm trying to be patient as much as I can but enough is enough.
First he post without asking, than ask me after and I said no and explained him why.
He removed the skin.
Then he open his web page and post the link on iexbeta board saying that he finnaly got my permission, FALSE!!!
I told him again to turn this off and I was not happy at all. I explain him my point of view and again he removed the link on his web page.
And now it's on your site? and you are telling he post it!
Here is the forum
http://board.iexbeta.com/cgi-bin/ib2/topic.cgi?forum=17&topic=204&start=0
**********************
Here is his web page
http://www.peakpeak.com/~nicks/themes.html
he said:
PreLuna
Well, unbelieveably, I was forced to take the link down to this beautiful skin. If you want to protest the removal of this skin, contact Alexandrie. Here is a screenshot of what you could have had: Screenshot
***********************
I'm not the kind of person to attack person without any good reason, I'm a peacefull person, but this his enough, I understand you have different point of view here but this is not the point. As the operator of the site you have to turn this off, this is not a request this is an obligation. Your way to proceed should be revise.
Regards,
Johanne Chainé
[email protected]
http://www.pixtudio.com/
Alexandrie
Reply #53 Monday, November 19, 2001 11:32 PM
Reply #53 Monday, November 19, 2001 11:32 PM
Here is his reply
********************************************
Johanne,
I have requested that my themes adminstrator send me similar screenshots of his computer using both your WindowBlinds Pre Luna theme and the theme of Neodescis, also called Pre Luna, for StyleXP. After careful comparison, I have noticed several huge differences between your themes. His scroll-bar graphics, when compared to your screenshot, appear to be very different, and WindowBlinds does not appear to use your scroll bar in Internet Explorer, where his does. Additionally, your task bar and start bars are much different in terms of color, shape, and style. His button spacing is different, and his toolbars are RADICALLY different. It is also evident when both screenshots are zoomed in that Neodecsis did NOT take any of your bitmaps to make his theme.
It would appear that the ONLY similarity between your two themes is in the title bar and the name. Everything else appears to be different. Based on this finding, I again stress that his theme does not appear to constitute copyright infringement. This has no indication of being a port - it has every indication of being a separate work simply BASED on your own. He even went above and beyond in giving you credit for being the inspiration, so I fail to see what your problem is. My instinct is that you, as many others in your community, are trying to take StyleXP out any way possible.
You keep claiming that it is not difficult to point out that his theme is a copy of yours. If it is not difficult, why don't you go ahead and prove it? You have made no attempts to do this, and neither have any of those WinCustomize users that you have sent after me in an attempt to bend the situation to your advantage.
When Neodescis removed the theme, he was NOT admitting that he is not the author - indeed, he is the author. He was simply breaking under the stress of attacks from you and your friends. Remember, I have spoken with Neodescis on this matter. I also intend to carbon-copy him, my staff, and my host on this message.
In all of your attempts to convince my site staff, myself, and (likely) my host to remove Neodescis's theme, you have repeatedly failed to provide any concrete evidence that his theme constitutes copyright infringement. I have conducted an investigation that NEGATES your claim that his theme is simply a rip, port, or copy of your theme. I have tried to be reasonable and provide you with our standard procedure for dealing with copyright infringement claims, in hopes you might eventually see it fit to actually prove your case. In the end, I've spent WAY too much of my time dealing with this specific issue.
You continue to claim that it is somehow my obligation or responsibility to remove another author's work from my website on blind faith that you are telling the truth. I disagree. I think it is a matter of personal and professional integrity that I do not rely on blind faith in any madder of conduct, especially one of this nature and magnitude. I am going to ask that you stop e-mailing me and/or my site staffers. This goes for all your friends as well.
I shouldn't need to repeat myself - Neodescis created his own theme simply based on yours. Until you have evidence otherwise, I'm not going to be responding to your messages. I want to be as fair as possible, but there are only a limited number of hours in each day with which
I have to maintain my site.
Best Regards,
Chase Venters
********************************************
Johanne,
I have requested that my themes adminstrator send me similar screenshots of his computer using both your WindowBlinds Pre Luna theme and the theme of Neodescis, also called Pre Luna, for StyleXP. After careful comparison, I have noticed several huge differences between your themes. His scroll-bar graphics, when compared to your screenshot, appear to be very different, and WindowBlinds does not appear to use your scroll bar in Internet Explorer, where his does. Additionally, your task bar and start bars are much different in terms of color, shape, and style. His button spacing is different, and his toolbars are RADICALLY different. It is also evident when both screenshots are zoomed in that Neodecsis did NOT take any of your bitmaps to make his theme.
It would appear that the ONLY similarity between your two themes is in the title bar and the name. Everything else appears to be different. Based on this finding, I again stress that his theme does not appear to constitute copyright infringement. This has no indication of being a port - it has every indication of being a separate work simply BASED on your own. He even went above and beyond in giving you credit for being the inspiration, so I fail to see what your problem is. My instinct is that you, as many others in your community, are trying to take StyleXP out any way possible.
You keep claiming that it is not difficult to point out that his theme is a copy of yours. If it is not difficult, why don't you go ahead and prove it? You have made no attempts to do this, and neither have any of those WinCustomize users that you have sent after me in an attempt to bend the situation to your advantage.
When Neodescis removed the theme, he was NOT admitting that he is not the author - indeed, he is the author. He was simply breaking under the stress of attacks from you and your friends. Remember, I have spoken with Neodescis on this matter. I also intend to carbon-copy him, my staff, and my host on this message.
In all of your attempts to convince my site staff, myself, and (likely) my host to remove Neodescis's theme, you have repeatedly failed to provide any concrete evidence that his theme constitutes copyright infringement. I have conducted an investigation that NEGATES your claim that his theme is simply a rip, port, or copy of your theme. I have tried to be reasonable and provide you with our standard procedure for dealing with copyright infringement claims, in hopes you might eventually see it fit to actually prove your case. In the end, I've spent WAY too much of my time dealing with this specific issue.
You continue to claim that it is somehow my obligation or responsibility to remove another author's work from my website on blind faith that you are telling the truth. I disagree. I think it is a matter of personal and professional integrity that I do not rely on blind faith in any madder of conduct, especially one of this nature and magnitude. I am going to ask that you stop e-mailing me and/or my site staffers. This goes for all your friends as well.
I shouldn't need to repeat myself - Neodescis created his own theme simply based on yours. Until you have evidence otherwise, I'm not going to be responding to your messages. I want to be as fair as possible, but there are only a limited number of hours in each day with which
I have to maintain my site.
Best Regards,
Chase Venters
Jafo
Reply #54 Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:15 AM
Reply #54 Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:15 AM
Oh, how damn eloquent of him....he has re-invented the concept of abuse of copyright, carefully raising his standard of criteria to facillitate 'legitimizing' of works 'BASED' on another's.
Get it RIGHT!
Giving credit to GOD himself does NOT absolve a person from the responsiblity of seeking and obtaining an artist's permission, BEFORE reproducing the work in ANY form what-so-ever.
Chase Venters....you are simply wrong, and no amount of side-stepping will clear you and your site of complicity in hosting a work, borrowed/based/ported/or inspired by another without permission.
Just because you, personally, are blind to the similarity and clear derivative work does not make it a non-event.
Alexandrie's Pre-Luna skin is hers....it is hers entirely and was released, with her permission as a default Windowblind skin. At no time was it, or has it been released as a msstyles 'theme', just as it his never been released as a winamp skin.
If Alexandrie invented this skin even prior to the XP release, then Neodescis' CANNOT be a coincidence of creation, but a DERIVED work, copied in whole or in part without express permission.
This IS a breach of copyright, whether you agree, or not.
His 'credit' to Alexandrie is a clear admission of its origins, and a personal declaration by him of its derivative content.
Put simply, he admits the work originated with Alexandrie, but is unable to come forward with written consent for its creation.
That constitutes a breach of copyright.
It is a pity that new sites, and people new to skinning and digital/on-line art are mis-guided in relation to artists' rights and rules of copyright, intellectual, and otherwise.
To clarify, for nearly 30 years, I have been engaged in Architecture and building design, and am well aware of issues of copyright on drawn works [art].
I have also been involved with Skinning, themeing and digital art since its inception and am well aware of the naivete of sites which spring up from time to time with dreamy-eyed opinions of what does, and doesn't constitute plagiarism.
It really isn't as 'grey' as people imagine.
If sites such as this continue to espouse invalid arguments regarding what is/isn't acceptable, they will be severely tarnished in the eyes of established and respected community sites.
When a concensus of opinion is taken about whether this particular rip is infact a rip, amongst all of the current on-line well-known established skinners and artists, people who have created this 'world of skinning' as we now know it....you may find there is a ground-swell of opinion against your stand on this, and in support of Alexandrie.
Why?
2 reasons.
1. Her position is correct. This is a non-approved use of her work.
And...
2. No-one else wishes to be the next target of copyright theft and will defend her rights now, so we are not forced to defend our own, later.
Just ask Neodescis....
"Did you base this work on Alexandrie's skin?"
And...
"Did you have her permission to publicly release the result?"
I believe the answers will be 'Yes', 'No'....which makes this a breach of copyright.
Just remove it now, so you, your site, and its other members are not tarnished by this transgression.
Paul Martin
Jafo
[email protected]
Get it RIGHT!
Giving credit to GOD himself does NOT absolve a person from the responsiblity of seeking and obtaining an artist's permission, BEFORE reproducing the work in ANY form what-so-ever.
Chase Venters....you are simply wrong, and no amount of side-stepping will clear you and your site of complicity in hosting a work, borrowed/based/ported/or inspired by another without permission.
Just because you, personally, are blind to the similarity and clear derivative work does not make it a non-event.
Alexandrie's Pre-Luna skin is hers....it is hers entirely and was released, with her permission as a default Windowblind skin. At no time was it, or has it been released as a msstyles 'theme', just as it his never been released as a winamp skin.
If Alexandrie invented this skin even prior to the XP release, then Neodescis' CANNOT be a coincidence of creation, but a DERIVED work, copied in whole or in part without express permission.
This IS a breach of copyright, whether you agree, or not.
His 'credit' to Alexandrie is a clear admission of its origins, and a personal declaration by him of its derivative content.
Put simply, he admits the work originated with Alexandrie, but is unable to come forward with written consent for its creation.
That constitutes a breach of copyright.
It is a pity that new sites, and people new to skinning and digital/on-line art are mis-guided in relation to artists' rights and rules of copyright, intellectual, and otherwise.
To clarify, for nearly 30 years, I have been engaged in Architecture and building design, and am well aware of issues of copyright on drawn works [art].
I have also been involved with Skinning, themeing and digital art since its inception and am well aware of the naivete of sites which spring up from time to time with dreamy-eyed opinions of what does, and doesn't constitute plagiarism.
It really isn't as 'grey' as people imagine.
If sites such as this continue to espouse invalid arguments regarding what is/isn't acceptable, they will be severely tarnished in the eyes of established and respected community sites.
When a concensus of opinion is taken about whether this particular rip is infact a rip, amongst all of the current on-line well-known established skinners and artists, people who have created this 'world of skinning' as we now know it....you may find there is a ground-swell of opinion against your stand on this, and in support of Alexandrie.
Why?
2 reasons.
1. Her position is correct. This is a non-approved use of her work.
And...
2. No-one else wishes to be the next target of copyright theft and will defend her rights now, so we are not forced to defend our own, later.
Just ask Neodescis....
"Did you base this work on Alexandrie's skin?"
And...
"Did you have her permission to publicly release the result?"
I believe the answers will be 'Yes', 'No'....which makes this a breach of copyright.
Just remove it now, so you, your site, and its other members are not tarnished by this transgression.
Paul Martin
Jafo
[email protected]
Alexandrie
Reply #55 Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:25 AM
Reply #55 Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:25 AM
forgot to post the email of the guy here it is
[email protected]
[email protected]
davad70
Reply #56 Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:43 AM
Reply #56 Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:43 AM
the arrogance and stupidity of these guys is amazing...they have no clue where this is leading them...where would OUR community be today if 3 years ago we were led by these fools?
oinky
Reply #57 Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:47 AM
Reply #57 Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:47 AM
It looks like we’re stuck. Here’s a thought:
I spend quite a bit of time at a discussion site called kuro5hin.org. Over just a few months I have seen several people bring issues like this to the attention of the public and receive some great results. It seems that intellectual property is a commonly misinterpreted concept that needs to be addressed. If one of the more talented writers in our community could produce an article detailing IP and how it applies to skinning, it could be posted there. Educating people has its own benefits, but it’s only when someone presents open ended questions that the locals come out of their holes and get to work. I’ve seen these people come up with some truly brilliant solutions to problems in our world. If we simply ask, “how should we fight this?” I’m sure we’ll get all sorts of advice from perspectives other than our own. If we can get into the minds of rippers and the people who stand up for them and understand why they hold the belief that they are right, maybe we can develop a better argument against them.
On the other hand, if you just want to spam their mailboxes, let me know.
I spend quite a bit of time at a discussion site called kuro5hin.org. Over just a few months I have seen several people bring issues like this to the attention of the public and receive some great results. It seems that intellectual property is a commonly misinterpreted concept that needs to be addressed. If one of the more talented writers in our community could produce an article detailing IP and how it applies to skinning, it could be posted there. Educating people has its own benefits, but it’s only when someone presents open ended questions that the locals come out of their holes and get to work. I’ve seen these people come up with some truly brilliant solutions to problems in our world. If we simply ask, “how should we fight this?” I’m sure we’ll get all sorts of advice from perspectives other than our own. If we can get into the minds of rippers and the people who stand up for them and understand why they hold the belief that they are right, maybe we can develop a better argument against them.
On the other hand, if you just want to spam their mailboxes, let me know.
Frogboy
Reply #58 Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:52 AM
Reply #58 Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:52 AM
It would be a lot smaller with few skin artists. We'd be making corporate software today, there'd be no WinCustomize for sure and probably most of the other sites wouldn't be around since it would be just a handful of rips.
People like Treetog and Alexandrie and the host of other talented skin authors out there would probably not have bothered to invest the significant effort and time into skinning if their works weren't protected in our community.
What the StyleXP community doesn't realize is that they're slitting their own throats. Talented skin authors are not going to be part of a community like rides roughshod over the rights of others. And it creates an ugly face.
Taking the Stardock hat off here (for anyone who thought it was on in the first place in this post), frankly this Style XP thing has been directed primarily towards warez people in the first place. The places where there are lots of warez people are the places it's doing the best. It is, afterall, a program that rides roughshod over Microsoft's IP rights on their own format (and I've been consistant in my argument that skin formats/languages are just as protected as skins - and I'd take that to court in a second if pushed on it).
It's one of the reasons why I've been a "detractor" of it from day 1. The people who don't know me tried to say it was due to some knee jerk competitive reaction yet they could never show where I was even remotely critical of eFX or Chroma in all the years they've existed. I don't like "warez" and I don't like the "warez community". I believe intellectual property rights are the foundation of our modern world and those who ignore them or blow them off are potentially doing real damage.
It really ticks me off (I'm pretty angry as I type this I confess) to see people who should behave with some responsibility behaving little better than admins for a warez site.
People like Treetog and Alexandrie and the host of other talented skin authors out there would probably not have bothered to invest the significant effort and time into skinning if their works weren't protected in our community.
What the StyleXP community doesn't realize is that they're slitting their own throats. Talented skin authors are not going to be part of a community like rides roughshod over the rights of others. And it creates an ugly face.
Taking the Stardock hat off here (for anyone who thought it was on in the first place in this post), frankly this Style XP thing has been directed primarily towards warez people in the first place. The places where there are lots of warez people are the places it's doing the best. It is, afterall, a program that rides roughshod over Microsoft's IP rights on their own format (and I've been consistant in my argument that skin formats/languages are just as protected as skins - and I'd take that to court in a second if pushed on it).
It's one of the reasons why I've been a "detractor" of it from day 1. The people who don't know me tried to say it was due to some knee jerk competitive reaction yet they could never show where I was even remotely critical of eFX or Chroma in all the years they've existed. I don't like "warez" and I don't like the "warez community". I believe intellectual property rights are the foundation of our modern world and those who ignore them or blow them off are potentially doing real damage.
It really ticks me off (I'm pretty angry as I type this I confess) to see people who should behave with some responsibility behaving little better than admins for a warez site.
Frogboy
Reply #59 Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:53 AM
Reply #59 Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:53 AM
oinky: That's a good idea. The 
folks are pretty knowledgeable and organized. Our message board here really doesn't get read by enough people to put together an effective force of advocacy.
folks are pretty knowledgeable and organized. Our message board here really doesn't get read by enough people to put together an effective force of advocacy.
davad70
Reply #60 Tuesday, November 20, 2001 1:11 AM
Reply #60 Tuesday, November 20, 2001 1:11 AM
that was my thought exactly brad...many talented amd just plain "good people" would be focusing their effort and their free time in other directions...and we'd all have misse dout on some great art, great friends, and a lot of fun.
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Reply #41 Sunday, November 18, 2001 4:00 AM
It is time to "start kicking some arses", Alexandrie.
We have to find out a standard way for not to be ripped in the future.