Style XP Gumph :-(
Monday, November 12, 2001 by thecat2000 | Discussion: WinCustomize Talk
Don't know how people really feel about the Style XP ranting right now, but After looking on other Web sites such as http://www.neowin.net, All I can see are Newbies to the Skinning community (Thats IF you actually admit to call them Skinners as such) are Doing everything they can to Pan WindowBlinds and try to sell Style XP off as being the best thing to skinning since sliced bread.
Of course they are entitled to their oppinion, but When Style XP is little more than a DLL hack,then proceed to insult an established program such as WB, it sort of well amazes me how they conjure up their comparrisons. Due to the fact that WB is a program with a front end while Style XP obviously isn't.
The new Kid on the Block with their new Skinners on the Block Don't exactly do themselves any favours by hitting at renowned skinners either. Already seen an Alexandrie Rip too. Probably with more to come I expect..
Of course they are entitled to their oppinion, but When Style XP is little more than a DLL hack,then proceed to insult an established program such as WB, it sort of well amazes me how they conjure up their comparrisons. Due to the fact that WB is a program with a front end while Style XP obviously isn't.
The new Kid on the Block with their new Skinners on the Block Don't exactly do themselves any favours by hitting at renowned skinners either. Already seen an Alexandrie Rip too. Probably with more to come I expect..
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paxx
Reply #2 Monday, November 12, 2001 10:05 PM
Reply #2 Monday, November 12, 2001 10:05 PM
Let them be. It can only bring more customers to Windowblinds in the end. It will users a taste of what customisation can be, then when they want more and better, they'll find WB. 
JayG
Reply #3 Monday, November 12, 2001 10:14 PM
Reply #3 Monday, November 12, 2001 10:14 PM
the hate there they have for wb is apalling and bizarre. i can't see how anyone can hate a piece of software. and the claims they make are so outlandish. warez people mainly. they hate that wb costs money to get all the goodies but they don't mind having paid $100+ for windows xp? Hmmmmmmm...
RobbieRobb
Reply #4 Monday, November 12, 2001 11:05 PM
Reply #4 Monday, November 12, 2001 11:05 PM
hehe, that's a good one JayG, paid a $100+ for XP....hehe I'll be laughing about that tomorrow still
craeonics
Reply #5 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 3:17 AM
Reply #5 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 3:17 AM
Hmm, reminds me of what the ignorant say about Netscape.
Attila
Reply #6 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 10:28 AM
Reply #6 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 10:28 AM
I maybe completely offbase here (but that's allright), I think a great deal of them are just rejoicing about a new alternative. Although, there will always be a few morons who take it too far, I think they have a right not to like WindowBlinds as people have a right not to like StyleXP/StyleBuilder, etc.. it's just when things are taken to an extreme is when problems can occur. It's a proven fact that if you don't bite onto their bait to get you involved in the moronic activites, it will soon die out.
I don't think Brads 'skin primers' are helping matters any, as they are lopsided in favor of anything Stardock/WinCustomize related, but that's neither here nor there. Everytime Brad releases a 'skin community' flavored document, people can't help but notice that it's somewhat a commercial for either WindowBlinds, WinCustomize or any other Stardock sponsored affiliate. Just my personal views, feel free to shoot them down.
I don't think Brads 'skin primers' are helping matters any, as they are lopsided in favor of anything Stardock/WinCustomize related, but that's neither here nor there. Everytime Brad releases a 'skin community' flavored document, people can't help but notice that it's somewhat a commercial for either WindowBlinds, WinCustomize or any other Stardock sponsored affiliate. Just my personal views, feel free to shoot them down.
Frogboy
Reply #7 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 3:19 PM
Reply #7 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 3:19 PM
My Skin primer was written in SEPTEMBER and covered every major skinnable program and website. What more could I have done?
Jafo
Reply #8 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 4:17 PM
Reply #8 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 4:17 PM
Attila, I agree with your first paragraph....but just not with the second...
The problem thet Brad encounters is that no matter what subject he comments on, someone, somewhere will simply assume it is a party political broadcast....and definitely so if the subject is skin related.
I guess he is just going to have to resign himself to that.
But just for argument he was NOT and had not anything to do with Stardock and Windowblinds....what if they didn't exist?
Would that alter validity of opinion?
I'd hope not.
Now, back to the first para....yes, it does make sense to just ignore these styles newbies....and wait for them to wake up and smell the roses, but in the meantime, they are stealing artwork and creating ports without permission.... degrading the talents and reputations of established, respected artists, and that is both sad, unfortunate, and unlawful....
The problem thet Brad encounters is that no matter what subject he comments on, someone, somewhere will simply assume it is a party political broadcast....and definitely so if the subject is skin related.
I guess he is just going to have to resign himself to that.
But just for argument he was NOT and had not anything to do with Stardock and Windowblinds....what if they didn't exist?
Would that alter validity of opinion?
I'd hope not.
Now, back to the first para....yes, it does make sense to just ignore these styles newbies....and wait for them to wake up and smell the roses, but in the meantime, they are stealing artwork and creating ports without permission.... degrading the talents and reputations of established, respected artists, and that is both sad, unfortunate, and unlawful....
mooshoo
Reply #9 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 6:06 PM
Reply #9 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 6:06 PM
Here's Brad, getting ripped apart day after day because of doing the following:
1. Makes the best skinnable apps ever. I don't care what anyone says they are some of THE best!
2. Started this website in a real time of need (skinz death). If it weren't for this website (started/funded by Brad and stardock) a lot of skinners would have been lost, and probably quit.
3. Helps out the community by writing articles or browsing the message board helping people with their questions or problems.
4. Much more that I don’t even know about
Far too many people, however, for some unknown reason (are they just too immature?) accuse brad of doing the following.
1. Brainwashing people into buying his inferior skinnable apps.
2. Started this website for personal gain, power, and to sell more products.
3. Lies to people by writing articles/ message board responses promoting his programs.
I don’t understand it. I’ve refrained many times from ripping apart people acting ridiculous towards stardock/brad when they should, in fact, be thanking him. All I can say to you Brad is thank you very much for your dedication towards the skinning community.
1. Makes the best skinnable apps ever. I don't care what anyone says they are some of THE best!
2. Started this website in a real time of need (skinz death). If it weren't for this website (started/funded by Brad and stardock) a lot of skinners would have been lost, and probably quit.
3. Helps out the community by writing articles or browsing the message board helping people with their questions or problems.
4. Much more that I don’t even know about
Far too many people, however, for some unknown reason (are they just too immature?) accuse brad of doing the following.
1. Brainwashing people into buying his inferior skinnable apps.
2. Started this website for personal gain, power, and to sell more products.
3. Lies to people by writing articles/ message board responses promoting his programs.
I don’t understand it. I’ve refrained many times from ripping apart people acting ridiculous towards stardock/brad when they should, in fact, be thanking him. All I can say to you Brad is thank you very much for your dedication towards the skinning community.
Frogboy
Reply #10 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 6:24 PM
Reply #10 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 6:24 PM
Thanks Mooshoo. I'm convinced that there is something grating in the way I write that just rubs a percentage of people the wrong way. Even Shoggot, who've I've known for years said the other day that he despises me truly on WinCustomize.
There's a term known as "negative interpretation". Essentially it means that when something can be interpreted either to be a positive thing or a negative thing the person interprets it negative. For some reason, much of what I do is interpreted negatively. I wish I could discover the root causes and correct them. When someone says that the Skin Primer is basically a Stardock ad, what would a skin primer cover differently if it's based on merit and objectivity? I even worked with Dangeruss on the Hoverdesk section for instance.
There's a term known as "negative interpretation". Essentially it means that when something can be interpreted either to be a positive thing or a negative thing the person interprets it negative. For some reason, much of what I do is interpreted negatively. I wish I could discover the root causes and correct them. When someone says that the Skin Primer is basically a Stardock ad, what would a skin primer cover differently if it's based on merit and objectivity? I even worked with Dangeruss on the Hoverdesk section for instance.
thecat2000
Reply #11 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 6:36 PM
Reply #11 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 6:36 PM
It's TRUE to say that I have read comments on other Web site Forums where 'Fans' of Style XP Rip apart Brad & WindowBlinds even calling StarDock itself Evil..
Just recently though on the Ripping issue, some one wanted a Ported Digital FX skin to be ported of course into Style XP. I kindly mentioned that I would hope they get permission on this first.
Seems to me that the 'Newbies' on Style XP have not got a clue about the Rules of Skinning in the Community, So just how many will actually break the rules, and Create (Sorry) Rip skins from the real Artists, before they realise what they are doing is unlawful.
I Certainly DO think that part of the issue here is down to what WindowBlinds COST. They see Style XP as a Free way out of Skinning Windows. However, as much as it is not a crime to want to Skin Windows Freely, the Actual Sin to me is actually uploading Cheap rubbish that is just another Luna Theme in another colour.
I have seen many themes for Style XP that are really poor standard attempts at Themes. You just don't find this in the WindowBlinds Community, where the usual Skinning Standard is quite high.
A lot of Style XP Themes I have seen actually used original Microsoft Graphics anyway, so they were most definatly not the orginal Author of a single Pixcel Anyway.
People are free to choose of course, and this is how it should be, but not at the expense of Peoples hard work. (Another reminder of how Work from Excellent Skinners can be exploited and cheated)by People making Rips.
I just wonder what do any of us do if One of our WB Skins ends up suddenly on Style XP with out any knowledge of it prior to it being uploaded. ?
Just recently though on the Ripping issue, some one wanted a Ported Digital FX skin to be ported of course into Style XP. I kindly mentioned that I would hope they get permission on this first.
Seems to me that the 'Newbies' on Style XP have not got a clue about the Rules of Skinning in the Community, So just how many will actually break the rules, and Create (Sorry) Rip skins from the real Artists, before they realise what they are doing is unlawful.
I Certainly DO think that part of the issue here is down to what WindowBlinds COST. They see Style XP as a Free way out of Skinning Windows. However, as much as it is not a crime to want to Skin Windows Freely, the Actual Sin to me is actually uploading Cheap rubbish that is just another Luna Theme in another colour.
I have seen many themes for Style XP that are really poor standard attempts at Themes. You just don't find this in the WindowBlinds Community, where the usual Skinning Standard is quite high.
A lot of Style XP Themes I have seen actually used original Microsoft Graphics anyway, so they were most definatly not the orginal Author of a single Pixcel Anyway.
People are free to choose of course, and this is how it should be, but not at the expense of Peoples hard work. (Another reminder of how Work from Excellent Skinners can be exploited and cheated)by People making Rips.
I just wonder what do any of us do if One of our WB Skins ends up suddenly on Style XP with out any knowledge of it prior to it being uploaded. ?
TasT
Reply #12 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 6:37 PM
Reply #12 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 6:37 PM
Brad,
In your position with Stardock everything you type will be picked apart to find the "stardock ad" but I believe you type an honest and 0jective view of most things ( the funding for WinC thing still irritates me) and the majority of those who whine just don't want to try to understand or read all of what you posted.
You also write to an older and above average intelligent crowd which you are a part of but, not all of the people reading have obtained yet.
They are either young or new to skinning..
Just some more random thoughts from TasT
In your position with Stardock everything you type will be picked apart to find the "stardock ad" but I believe you type an honest and 0jective view of most things ( the funding for WinC thing still irritates me) and the majority of those who whine just don't want to try to understand or read all of what you posted.
You also write to an older and above average intelligent crowd which you are a part of but, not all of the people reading have obtained yet.
They are either young or new to skinning..
Just some more random thoughts from TasT
TasT
Reply #13 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 6:41 PM
Reply #13 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 6:41 PM
Intelligent = intelligence
TasT leaves the rest for Jafo...
TasT leaves the rest for Jafo...
RobbieRobb
Reply #14 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 7:22 PM
Reply #14 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 7:22 PM
Brad needs a pen name...Let's see...Richard Bachman, nope, taken, John Sandford, er...nope, taken as well...hmmm...
Maybe that can be the next big contest: Find Brad a pen name. Of course, the winner could never be announced as then everyone would know immediately that the new name is really Brad
Maybe that can be the next big contest: Find Brad a pen name. Of course, the winner could never be announced as then everyone would know immediately that the new name is really Brad
Attila
Reply #15 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 7:30 PM
Reply #15 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 7:30 PM
Whelp, I'm sure Brad knows that I respect the work he has done, the work he's currently doing, and most importantly the work he will do in the future. I have no reason to personally dislike Brad. I can only speak the truth as it pertains to the way I interpret things. It's a simple fact that not everyone is going to agree with everything that you do or say. As for the skin primer subject, I used it in its plural form to signify the numerous articles you've posted at various sites within the past few weeks (not just THEE Skin Primer). As Brad said, it's the 'negative interpretation' thing. Some people will interpret it as a blessing to the community, others as a commercial for Stardock/WindowBlinds. Neither is a flawed assertion in my opinion.
Now... thecat started this thread regarding the actions of a number of people who are bashing WindowBlinds, some are even posting unauthorized work of other skinners/designers. I can't name ONE person who isn't opposed to this, who isn't involved in the practice themselves. However, I think what needs to be done is instead of maybe venting/ranting about what's going on; people should rather report incidences of possible RIPS to site administrators/moderators so appropriate actions can be taken. I can't count the number of times people have complained to me about "seeing" a rip and nothing was done about it. I would then ask the person if they reported it to someone capable of doing anything about it, and 10/10 times, the answer was "no."
I guess my point is this: We can spend endless hours debating whether or not mine and others INTERPRETATIONS of Stardock/Brad are accurate or not, or we could instead MOVE ON and DO something about what this topic is essentially about. I suppose, the key word in all of this bickering about peoples motives is "INTERPRETATION" which is unique in all of us. You won't here any more from me concerning other people's motives unless they infringe on mine some way or another. That's just ONE of the numerous ideologies I've garnered while writing this reply. I hope I have remained coherant throughout this lengthy post, I know many of you can atest to the difficulty of keeping things coherant in these small text boxes. ~ With warm regards, V. Brown (Attila)
Now... thecat started this thread regarding the actions of a number of people who are bashing WindowBlinds, some are even posting unauthorized work of other skinners/designers. I can't name ONE person who isn't opposed to this, who isn't involved in the practice themselves. However, I think what needs to be done is instead of maybe venting/ranting about what's going on; people should rather report incidences of possible RIPS to site administrators/moderators so appropriate actions can be taken. I can't count the number of times people have complained to me about "seeing" a rip and nothing was done about it. I would then ask the person if they reported it to someone capable of doing anything about it, and 10/10 times, the answer was "no."
I guess my point is this: We can spend endless hours debating whether or not mine and others INTERPRETATIONS of Stardock/Brad are accurate or not, or we could instead MOVE ON and DO something about what this topic is essentially about. I suppose, the key word in all of this bickering about peoples motives is "INTERPRETATION" which is unique in all of us. You won't here any more from me concerning other people's motives unless they infringe on mine some way or another. That's just ONE of the numerous ideologies I've garnered while writing this reply. I hope I have remained coherant throughout this lengthy post, I know many of you can atest to the difficulty of keeping things coherant in these small text boxes. ~ With warm regards, V. Brown (Attila)
Frogboy
Reply #16 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 8:10 PM
Reply #16 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 8:10 PM
You know what I think? We need to modify the message board so that the text is bigger. I think that's it's too hard to read stuff on WC.
kith
Reply #17 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 9:38 PM
Reply #17 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 9:38 PM
Frogboy,
Larger text size would be nice but I can control text size in IE: View / Text Size / Largest, and it looks nice. Wider boxes might be nice though....
Larger text size would be nice but I can control text size in IE: View / Text Size / Largest, and it looks nice. Wider boxes might be nice though....
Jafo
Reply #18 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 11:54 PM
Reply #18 Tuesday, November 13, 2001 11:54 PM
Attila...I copped loads of flak on DA for handling a rip of Nuvem's Lost Souls....in particular from one fellow DA member who followed up by posting deliberate rips of work at DA to make some obscure point about it being meaningless.
What hope have responsible artists/skinners/community members got when their efforts are undermined from within by 'Rebels Without A Clue'?...
Anyway...I passed on info of that transgression to jark, so again it can be dealt with via proper channels...
What hope have responsible artists/skinners/community members got when their efforts are undermined from within by 'Rebels Without A Clue'?...
Anyway...I passed on info of that transgression to jark, so again it can be dealt with via proper channels...
Attila
Reply #19 Wednesday, November 14, 2001 9:18 AM
Reply #19 Wednesday, November 14, 2001 9:18 AM
I won't even ask why you bothered to mention DA, although it's probably because I'm affiliated with it, perhaps... Anyways, what do you mean by: "I copped loads of flak on DA for handling a rip of Nuvem's Lost Souls" handling? I don't follow. 
Frogboy
Reply #20 Wednesday, November 14, 2001 1:33 PM
Reply #20 Wednesday, November 14, 2001 1:33 PM
Oh yea, Attila, evil agent of DA, spreading DA propaganda! Probably getting paid to read this post even!
/em practices his troll growling. GRRR...grrr..cough cough choke..
/em practices his troll growling. GRRR...grrr..cough cough choke..
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Reply #1 Monday, November 12, 2001 7:54 PM
I guess it ultimately boils down to each their own. There's nothing that we can say or do that will make some of them change their minds and there's nothing they can say or do that'll make us change our minds.
As for the rip, that just doesn't surprise me. Alexandrie is by far one of the most talented artists we have available to us and she makes some wonderful XP-style skins. And I agree, it will only be the first of many.
Personally, I'm not going to play around with any DLL modifications for critical windows system files. I don't mind playing with something like the ICQ DLLs that will allow me to remove the ads but start messing with system files..no thanks. I like my computer booting thank-you-very-much.